Right, now show us a couple of example lists illustrating what you want to see played.

XD

Nothing specific. I just don't want to have to watch/play against any of the cards listed a few posts ago. Literally anything. Preferably creative.

Maybe even something crazy like this:

Ahsoka's Y-wing Bomb Squad

Ahsoka Tano + Veteran Instincts + Sabine's Masterpiece + Captured TIE + Seismic Charges + Sabine Wren (25)

Gold Squadron Pilot + R4-D6 + Bomb Loadout + Extra Munitions + Cluster Mines (25)

Gold Squadron Pilot + R2 Astromech + Bomb Loadout + Extra Munitions + Cluster Mines (25)

Gold Squadron Pilot + R2 Astromech + Bomb Loadout + Extra Munitions + Cluster Mines (25)

A tournament of stuff like that would be fun, wouldn't it?

Finally! Up till your last post, this entire thread (4 pages now) had got nowhere - you started with a ban list and you had ended with a ban list.

Now, we can see something. Ok, one list featuring lots of bombs. Do you want to see many lists with bombs? Tie Punishers, Tie Bombers, Y-Wings? Do you fancy a bombing theme?

If not, heavy bomb lists will annoy those who dislike either undodgable damage, or low hit point/arc-dodging lists.

Can you give another list you'd like, or do you want to explore 'The Heavy Bomber Tournament'?

I think you are missing the point. Its not a specific thing I am looking for. Bombs are fun but a bomb-only tournament would get old. Notice all 4 of those ships are being used in a way that is quite uncommon in the current tournament meta (with the exception of Sabine Tie). A tournament with all original ideas that are not just meta gaming biproducts would be the ideal.

All you need to ban is

Veteran Instincts

Push the Limit

Zuckuss

Engine Upgrade

Autothrusters

Xi7

and no more then 2 generics of 1 type of ship. Eg you cant have 4 Gold and 4 Grey Y wing to run 4 TLT. 2 Generics only regardless of Pilot skill

I think that should open things up

And you are definitely missing my point!

At the moment, you have a list of stuff you don't want to see. It is not a short, snappy list. It is a bit of a hotch-potch. You don't have a clear idea or vision of what you actually want to see on the table.

If you are happy merely having a thread which consists of whinging and putative banned cards, then carry on: you're doing fine. If you want an actual tournament to happen where players have fun flying unusual and creative lists, then you need a clear 'selling point' for them to want to turn up and take part.

Eg: X-Wing Theme Night: 120pts, you can cross-faction. Lists to be submitted in advance, with a definite theme in.

So, you give the players an incentive: here are 2 rules which are normally very strict - points and faction. Here's a restriction: lists to have a theme, with vetting.

What could you fly in this?

Well, eg:

Parent & Child: Luke & Vader, Norra & Snap, Shara + Poe. Can you fit all 6 in 120pts? I haven't tried, this is just off the top of my head.

Escape from Hoth: Rebel Transport + X-Wings.

Who needs Green Dice Anyway? Decimator & Ghost

If that doesn't appeal, come up with something that does, or give up!

You want a ban list? Prepare enough ships so that everyone as access to all ships in "unlimited" numbers, allow proxy cards and make a draft phase before each match, including a ban phase which gives each player the opportunity to ban X cards. Afterwards list building starts, a unique drafted means that the other player can not pick this unique for himself. Congratulation, you made list building a pretty interesting thing and creative list building a essential part of your tournament format.

Natural this would work best via vassal, but it would be an interesting format for club events as well.

A ban list within the regular tournament format is just … pointless and a try to rebalance the game in your own favor and if you do this, it would be more effective and a much better solution to play a custom card league instead.

10 hours ago, schmi said:

I wanna see anything I haven't seen 100 times! I also want to see a list that isn't just a stew of broken cards/combos.

Play a totally different format. Ditch the 100 point dogfight and play Mario Kart or Hunger Games or something. Or play a modified Hangar Bay format with the 'no duplications' clause from the current System Open series, but where you pick your opponent's list instead of your own.

Play missions.

Play HotAC.

Do something positive to change things instead of just banning a bunch of stuff you don't like because you'll STILL end up being annoyed when someone brings that one card you forgot about, or just brings something that's annoying in a different way in the new meta you created.

Make a positive change.

In particular, play Mario Kart. It uses the same skills, but will end up playing TOTALLY differently.

First off, XWing is fine. Secondly, there are no ships that need banned, nor upgrade cards. This coming from a guy who just watched the same list win the store kit for the millionth time in a row. Will banning ships prevent this guy from winning next time? Hell no!

You wanna promote different lists, well then make it a themed event. You can still play proper 100 point dogfight XWing. Just require all participants to have a viable theme. Have a list deadline. If someone has a weak theme, ask them to come up with a better one.

Suitable themes for a list.

Time Warp: No two ships from the same timeline.

Movie Theme. Trench Run goes here. All named Striker Pilots fit this bill too since they are all Rogue One ships.

Legends Theme. Remember when Dengar saved Boba Fett from the Sarlacc Pit? You could run Manaroo with Dengar crew alongside Boba Fett and that would count as a themed list. How about Shadows of the Empire? Dash Rendar + Chewie!

Basically if you can come up with a decent theme for your list, well then you can run it!

Pssh! Ban lists for XWing? Heresy!

5 hours ago, Gilarius said:

And you are definitely missing my point!

At the moment, you have a list of stuff you don't want to see. It is not a short, snappy list. It is a bit of a hotch-potch. You don't have a clear idea or vision of what you actually want to see on the table.

If you are happy merely having a thread which consists of whinging and putative banned cards, then carry on: you're doing fine. If you want an actual tournament to happen where players have fun flying unusual and creative lists, then you need a clear 'selling point' for them to want to turn up and take part.

I admit that I don't understand your point. Well...maybe I do and I think the issue between you two is the point of the thread. If the OP is saying he wants to have a one shot tournament that bans certain cards to force people to bring different lists...and he's looking for an idea of what type of things to ban to really promote that....then I don't understand why posting example lists matter. If you are taking the perspective that you don't want a boring thread that's about whinging and you want to see an interesting thread full of fun lists that would be neat to take (and maybe inspire people), then I see your point, but it doesn't exactly help the OP.

4 hours ago, Darkcloak said:

First off, XWing is fine. Secondly, there are no ships that need banned, nor upgrade cards. This coming from a guy who just watched the same list win the store kit for the millionth time in a row. Will banning ships prevent this guy from winning next time? Hell no!

Pssh! Ban lists for XWing? Heresy!

From my perspective, the OP wants to run an event that blocks the standard tournament lists and forces people to come up with unique and unusual lists. Asking for a ban list is one way to do this. I see him wanting to do a one off event that's just a little different...for once. Is that bad? I don't think so. Are there other ways to have a tournament that forces different lists? Sure. Is he calling for X-wing to be changed? No. Is he saying the game is broken? No. Does he want to do HotAC or some other casual event? No. He just wants to have a tournament that doesn't have the same old same old that he's used to seeing. Is that really so bad? It's not going to be forever or every tournament from now on. It's just a one time event to put out there for fun. I don't really get the hate or opposition to the guy for trying. To me, tournaments got really repetitious and boring. I can see the point. I still like to do 100/6 at times, but I just don't want to play against the same old same old all the time.

I get that people don't want a ban list to start becoming a "thing", but I don't think OP is saying it should become a thing. He just wants to run an event that's a little different. I don't see that as a bad thing. I'd probably go to such an event if I could.

If I were to do a banned list tournament....to shake things up for fun....then I might pick:

• /X7 title
• Emperor Palpatine
• Royal Guard Title
• R2-D2
• R5-P9
• Biggs
• Engine Upgrade
• Veteran Instinct
• Manaroo
• Zuckuss crew
• No more than 2-3 of the same Generic ship

This is a ban list that would eliminate a lot of the standard stuff that people take to tournaments. It would force people to fly something new and interesting. Will there be some OP lists you can still build? Sure. Will they be different lists than the ones you are used to seeing? Yes! That's the point. Just add in some variety for once.

I feel a theme tournament will be much more popular than a banned list tournament. Our local stores have done mixed faction tourneys, "average" (no unique) tourneys, team tourneys, we even had an entire tour of 5 tournaments that had different obstacle rules. These are the things that encourage the creative list building the OP wants. Banning a bunch of upgrades will discourage people from coming in my opinion.

I think I would approach it with a points errata, trying to push cards down and pull others up to shape a game you want to see people play, or at least create decision points where builds are focused on one particular upgrade.

For instance if you adjusted Virago's cost from 1 to -2 would probably put a Starviper into the equation, if you cut Outmaneuver to 2pts and things like Lightning Reflexes/Cool Hand/Adrenaline Rush to 0pts would they see play?

1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think I would approach it with a points errata, trying to push cards down and pull others up to shape a game you want to see people play, or at least create decision points where builds are focused on one particular upgrade.

For instance if you adjusted Virago's cost from 1 to -2 would probably put a Starviper into the equation, if you cut Outmaneuver to 2pts and things like Lightning Reflexes/Cool Hand/Adrenaline Rush to 0pts would they see play?

Great ideas, except - 1 in /D title. It's strong like it is, only overshadowed by ridiculously powerful x/7.

On 1/25/2017 at 0:35 AM, AlexW said:

There's something appealing about this kind of an idea, but as mentioned above, isn't one of the most powerful lists in the meta right now just 8 points of upgrades? Also, how do you play ships that are designed to have upgrades to simply work? IE Bombers, Ks, Ys, Scyks...

If you referring to the paratanni builds, they wouldn't be allowed since mind link in this format is unique (and therefore would never be taken). And secondly who says those ships need alot of upgrades to work? You've go to remember that your not playing in a typical game, everyone has the Restriction..... Take your Scyks for an example, serissu add the titles and the tracer rockets to it and have a findsmans with greedo on board blast it.

6 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I admit that I don't understand your point. Well...maybe I do and I think the issue between you two is the point of the thread. If the OP is saying he wants to have a one shot tournament that bans certain cards to force people to bring different lists...and he's looking for an idea of what type of things to ban to really promote that....then I don't understand why posting example lists matter. If you are taking the perspective that you don't want a boring thread that's about whinging and you want to see an interesting thread full of fun lists that would be neat to take (and maybe inspire people), then I see your point, but it doesn't exactly help the OP.

From my perspective, the OP wants to run an event that blocks the standard tournament lists and forces people to come up with unique and unusual lists. Asking for a ban list is one way to do this. I see him wanting to do a one off event that's just a little different...for once. Is that bad? I don't think so. Are there other ways to have a tournament that forces different lists? Sure. Is he calling for X-wing to be changed? No. Is he saying the game is broken? No. Does he want to do HotAC or some other casual event? No. He just wants to have a tournament that doesn't have the same old same old that he's used to seeing. Is that really so bad? It's not going to be forever or every tournament from now on. It's just a one time event to put out there for fun. I don't really get the hate or opposition to the guy for trying. To me, tournaments got really repetitious and boring. I can see the point. I still like to do 100/6 at times, but I just don't want to play against the same old same old all the time.

I get that people don't want a ban list to start becoming a "thing", but I don't think OP is saying it should become a thing. He just wants to run an event that's a little different. I don't see that as a bad thing. I'd probably go to such an event if I could.

If I were to do a banned list tournament....to shake things up for fun....then I might pick:

• /X7 title
• Emperor Palpatine
• Royal Guard Title
• R2-D2
• R5-P9
• Biggs
• Engine Upgrade
• Veteran Instinct
• Manaroo
• Zuckuss crew
• No more than 2-3 of the same Generic ship

This is a ban list that would eliminate a lot of the standard stuff that people take to tournaments. It would force people to fly something new and interesting. Will there be some OP lists you can still build? Sure. Will they be different lists than the ones you are used to seeing? Yes! That's the point. Just add in some variety for once.

Ok, this helps me to understand his point. However, the reason why I'm trying to invert the 'ban stuff' is to enable a tournament to actually happen. I'm lucky in that my local scene generally features casual players and 'fun' lists that aren't necessarily competitive are more frequent than appears to be the case on this forum, so I don't need a 'ban stuff' format. It appears that schmi doesn't have that, so he wants to see more casual lists. So far, so good.

But, if his local players want to fly the same, ultra-competitive lists, then he needs some sort of incentive to get them to play his tournament - if they were happy to fly without Zuckuss et al, then they would be doing so already. Therefore I was trying to see if schmi had something in mind that he wants to see on the table which would lend itself to discovering something enticing for those 'boring' players so they would be willing or even eager to play.

If those 'boring-list' players didn't want to play, he can't force them to. Getting people from further afield to come would also need to engage their interest. If a tournament near me were advertised as simply 'here's a list of banned cards', I wouldn't bother going to play in it - because I already have 'fun' games available, without needing restrictions. On the other hand, a themed event, eg with rules that *allow* things that aren't normally available (or some other incentive), would be worth attending - even if that event were created merely to remove certain cards from play!

TL;DR You can't force players to take part in a tournament, you need to give them a reason for wanting to play in it. And a 'ban list' isn't enough (in my opinion).

7 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I admit that I don't understand your point. Well...maybe I do and I think the issue between you two is the point of the thread. If the OP is saying he wants to have a one shot tournament that bans certain cards to force people to bring different lists...and he's looking for an idea of what type of things to ban to really promote that....then I don't understand why posting example lists matter. If you are taking the perspective that you don't want a boring thread that's about whinging and you want to see an interesting thread full of fun lists that would be neat to take (and maybe inspire people), then I see your point, but it doesn't exactly help the OP.

From my perspective, the OP wants to run an event that blocks the standard tournament lists and forces people to come up with unique and unusual lists. Asking for a ban list is one way to do this. I see him wanting to do a one off event that's just a little different...for once. Is that bad? I don't think so. Are there other ways to have a tournament that forces different lists? Sure. Is he calling for X-wing to be changed? No. Is he saying the game is broken? No. Does he want to do HotAC or some other casual event? No. He just wants to have a tournament that doesn't have the same old same old that he's used to seeing. Is that really so bad? It's not going to be forever or every tournament from now on. It's just a one time event to put out there for fun. I don't really get the hate or opposition to the guy for trying. To me, tournaments got really repetitious and boring. I can see the point. I still like to do 100/6 at times, but I just don't want to play against the same old same old all the time.

I get that people don't want a ban list to start becoming a "thing", but I don't think OP is saying it should become a thing. He just wants to run an event that's a little different. I don't see that as a bad thing. I'd probably go to such an event if I could.

If I were to do a banned list tournament....to shake things up for fun....then I might pick:

• /X7 title
• Emperor Palpatine
• Royal Guard Title
• R2-D2
• R5-P9
• Biggs
• Engine Upgrade
• Veteran Instinct
• Manaroo
• Zuckuss crew
• No more than 2-3 of the same Generic ship

This is a ban list that would eliminate a lot of the standard stuff that people take to tournaments. It would force people to fly something new and interesting. Will there be some OP lists you can still build? Sure. Will they be different lists than the ones you are used to seeing? Yes! That's the point. Just add in some variety for once.

Could not have said it any better myself. I should have been more clear (somehow). Yes, this isn't some permanent thing; its a one-of tourney I wanted to try out! I would try to sell it as an opportunity to try and use those lists that would normally just die to traditional meta lists. Who knows, maybe people will like playing with a different pool of cards. I know the MTG community has responded well to it.

I like the list you came up with. I would likely do the same one, Biggs, RGT, and EU being the maybe's.

To add onto your last statement, yeah OP lists will definitely be a thing still. I just want them to be a different OP list. Id much rather lose to something OP that was just brewed than win against something someone just copied and that I have seen 30 times.

5 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think I would approach it with a points errata, trying to push cards down and pull others up to shape a game you want to see people play, or at least create decision points where builds are focused on one particular upgrade.

For instance if you adjusted Virago's cost from 1 to -2 would probably put a Starviper into the equation, if you cut Outmaneuver to 2pts and things like Lightning Reflexes/Cool Hand/Adrenaline Rush to 0pts would they see play?

I really, really like this idea. I was playing with doing a seperate tourney with the cost changes, similar to what you have done here. I agree and disagree with some of your cost changes, but something like that would definitely still be fun! The best part of the idea is buffing all the bad/unused cards.