So we all know that raiders are (in theory) the best AA platform in the game, however they also have a knack for exploding before they are able to really contribute all that much in terms of shooting down squads.... They also happen to be the cheapest platform that the empire has with a weapons team. I know most people (myself included) just slap ordinance experts on there and call it a day. HOWEVER, this slot can also be used for flight controllers!

Here is my thought process. With EHB and FC the raider 1 comes out to 55 points, 18 pts cheaper than the Victory, and with a token it can activate three squads at once. What if instead of using instigator to pin squadron balls, you send in a group of dedicated aces to kill the Intel, pinning the rest of the squads and forcing them to shoot at the scatter aces while the raider can now move up to flak next turn without fear of retribution. Here is what I have put together so far.

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)

= 58 total ship cost

Paired with

1 IG-88 ( 21 points)

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)

1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)

1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points)

Between the anti-Intel alpha and flechettes, I'm hoping I can prevent the enemy squad ball from being able to go anywhere for the most important turns of the game. The last bit I'm missing is the officer slot, which has several options.

Chirp-Derp- will guarantee I can get that sweet mauler autodamage as long as he is still alive, however, he's the most expensive option.

Minister Tua- add ECM so I can guarantee my brace and hopefully survive a large volley if the enemy takes a shot at me

Agent Kallus- without OE I'm pretty much just hoping for crits to proc flechettes, Kallus would help up that chance vs Uniques by adding another black die.

Has anyone tried something like this before? How did it go? Anyone have any other thoughts or suggestions?

I think this Raider would be very good against MSU lists. Raiders like to go against small ships with small dice rolls. But if you go against an MC80, AF, Vic, or ISD, this Raider is going to die quickly. I think it would be good on the opposite of an ISD, so if it is attacked, it's obstructed. I know if I saw this Raider, it's my first target. Flechette Torps is my enemy.

I like the FC, EHB, FT load out. Don't know if I'd put more onto it because Raiders are pretty fragile and you need to be at medium to activate squads, which means you might be in the middle of a fight. I think this Raider would pair well with a Comms Net Goz passing squad tokens to it, or activation squads itself. Maybe get a Lambda in there so if your Raider bugs out it can still activate 2 squads?

Way to think outside the box here.

I think your theory is sound, but I think I you should go OE. disabling the enemy squadrons will mean that your own squadrons will have unopposed ability to cause havoc amongst enemy squads.

Yeah OE just works better for the overall mission profile you are going for.

I think that the use of Raiders as pocket carriers/secondary carriers is going to be on the rise with this wave due to the introduction of Relay. However i feel that to be effective in that role they need to be cheap.

(Even a naked Raider is sufficient for the role)

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/191330-discussion-time-pocket-carrier/?hl=pocket+carrier

A wave 2 discussion

I'm not sure if you guys (other than Undead guy) are seeing what I'm getting at. With an OE raider you fly up to flak next round (since you can't attack after moving, though I'd love to see a raider title that let's you do that vs squads, or even just a single one (looking at you Jan)). Meanwhile, in the squadron phase or during your opponents next activation, those same squadrons move (because Intel) and kill the raider before it even fires a shot.

My method was proposing to kill the Intel on the same activation as the raider, preventing retaliation by the squads and forcing them to stay there and shoot at my scatter aces.

And re: Undeadguy-

That's why I was considering tua/ECM, cause that raider NEEDS a brace to survive

People have been trying to make the raider pocket carrier thing work since they were introduced. No one I've seen has had much sucess, but it just seems like something that should work and so folks keep trying. I imagine less efforts have been made since the introduction of gozanti's.

I wish you the best of luck, although FC strikes me as an expensive upgrade for the raider. Although I see what you mean, conceptually, with the intel preemptive strike.

Edit: Although a raider cannot activate the 4 squads you listed through any series of upgrades.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/191330-discussion-time-pocket-carrier/?hl=pocket+carrier

A wave 2 discussion

Never saw that thread. This is now wave 5 and includes wave 5 squadrons and upgrade cards. Thanks for the contribution though

People have been trying to make the raider pocket carrier thing work since they were introduced. No one I've seen has had much sucess, but it just seems like something that should work and so folks keep trying. I imagine less efforts have been made since the introduction of gozanti's.

I wish you the best of luck, although FC strikes me as an expensive upgrade for the raider. Although I see what you mean, conceptually, with the intel preemptive strike.

Edit: Although a raider cannot activate the 4 squads you listed through any series of upgrades.

He only needs to do three, IG-88 is rogue

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/191330-discussion-time-pocket-carrier/?hl=pocket+carrier

A wave 2 discussion

Never saw that thread. This is now wave 5 and includes wave 5 squadrons and upgrade cards. Thanks for the contribution though

Even then, the core of the matter is going to be what strengths do we leverage in Wave 5 with a Raider, versus the Gozanti - as far as we go "pocket carrier", we need to consider that.

The Gunnery Slot is a big one. Most definitely. Being able to attach Flight Controllers to those activations is very important... Doubly so when you can leverage them with Range and Distance provided by a Lambda...

But really, outside of that - and its inherent combat capability (which is hard to factor in as a function of its carrier role) - its tough to disentangle the Raider versus the Gozanti when all you want is a carrier.

Is all you want a Carrier, though?

The Raider is Faster. As fast as a lot of the Squadrons that are pushed - and even it can take Flight Commander, so it can resolve its Squadron assaults after its maneuver - this can be important, especially if you're following up a shield-and-defense-token blow with the Raider with some Bombing Capability...

It can also take those Flight Controllers for those heavy Anti-Squadron Attacks, potentially on top of its own. With Instigator, you're able to utilise Swarm even with your first Movement, as the enemy does count as Engaged... So even that first Fighter In can do it.

Pocket-Carrying Valen Rudor along for the ride can be interesting, if you're locking down enemy fighters.... TIE Fighters, Interceptors and Z-95s Swarms are excellent things to lock down with Instigator and Rudor, as Rudor is able to basically blow through them with Instigators assistance, and although they are able to Target Instigator, they are doing so with a Single Blue (or Red) Die that is non-bomber.... Which means although the Raider can take some damage, its not going to instantly evaporate. Its going to take some killing... Or Reinforcements well beyond the cost of Instigator+Rudor.

For the Raider to operate as a pocket carrier, it must do more than just push squadrons along. The Gozanti is designed for that, effectively. It does it cheaper and more efficiently. If all you want is to proc one or two squadron commands here or there, rely on that...

But if you can formulate some devious plan, I think the odd Pocket Carrier Raider has a place in the fleet - but its not a concept to base a fleet around (which is something the Wave 2 discuissions went through)... Pocket Carriers Raiders wont run a Rhymerball with any amount of strength compared to a Twin Gozanti Fleet... But the Raider Pocket carrier does bring things along, if you're able to look at its strengths.

People have been trying to make the raider pocket carrier thing work since they were introduced. No one I've seen has had much sucess, but it just seems like something that should work and so folks keep trying. I imagine less efforts have been made since the introduction of gozanti's.

I wish you the best of luck, although FC strikes me as an expensive upgrade for the raider. Although I see what you mean, conceptually, with the intel preemptive strike.

Edit: Although a raider cannot activate the 4 squads you listed through any series of upgrades.

He only needs to do three, IG-88 is rogue

Sure but rogue isnt exactly preemptive.

58 points for a pocket carrier?

Or,

23 for a Gozanti, 15 for a Lambda, 6 for flight controllers, and 5 for expanded hangers prices in at 49 points, activates one more squadron and has unlimited range.

Raiders are bad. Really bad.

Dras: he is not JUST activating squads, but using those he does to kill the unit that would allow bombers to attack him back. Then it could fulfill its other role- laying the hurt down on a now pinned bomber ball.

Mad: True, it will take some timing, but with initiative it could be done as last ship activation, then first squad activation in the squadron phase

58 points for a pocket carrier?

Or,

23 for a Gozanti, 15 for a Lambda, 6 for flight controllers, and 5 for expanded hangers prices in at 49 points, activates one more squadron and has unlimited range.

Raiders are bad. Really bad.

Where do you plan on putting those flight controllers?

58 points for a pocket carrier?

Or,

23 for a Gozanti, 15 for a Lambda, 6 for flight controllers, and 5 for expanded hangers prices in at 49 points, activates one more squadron and has unlimited range.

Raiders are bad. Really bad.

I think what we will see is the rise of a Raider in a carrier-on-demand capacity. With the introduction of Relay mechanic and Command 1 Raider can be summoned from anywhere in the field to activate that extra squadron you need.to be activated/repositioned/being able to attack early.

If the Raider has squad value of 2, I'd consider RLB on it with Instigator. Move in, tie some squads down. Next turn you can move in some other squads, drop Valen or IG-88 from the Raider and take some shots ot the squads.

Maybe it could be worth it just doing that to take out Intel. Anti squad will threaten the Intel, while IG88 finishes it off.

If the Raider has squad value of 2, I'd consider RLB on it with Instigator. Move in, tie some squads down. Next turn you can move in some other squads, drop Valen or IG-88 from the Raider and take some shots ot the squads.

Maybe it could be worth it just doing that to take out Intel. Anti squad will threaten the Intel, while IG88 finishes it off.

I think that's why he said "IF the Raider had a squadron value of 2". As-is, it wouldn't work.

This is the full list for those interested, it might give a better idea of how I am planning to play it. Torn between tua/ECM on the raider or chirpy on the gozanti. Or both and no bid. Thoughts?

Minimal aces

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 381/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Jamming Barrier

Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)

= 58 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)

- Demolisher ( 10 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

= 96 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)

- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)

= 59 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)

- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)

= 59 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)

- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)

- Comms Net ( 2 points)

= 45 total ship cost

1 IG-88 ( 21 points)

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)

1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)

1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points)

58 points for a pocket carrier?

Or,

23 for a Gozanti, 15 for a Lambda, 6 for flight controllers, and 5 for expanded hangers prices in at 49 points, activates one more squadron and has unlimited range.

Raiders are bad. Really bad.

Where do you plan on putting those flight controllers?

Tarkin is usually the commander most associated with the pocket carrier.

You NEED squads to make flechettes work properly. CNinj just used flechette against me, and becuase of my fighter coordination teams, I simply moved my squads back to blue range till the raider had activated, then carried on picking ships apart.

So your idea has merit. It suffers the same problem as the wave 2 pocket carrier. If you coordinate properly, a raider is exceedingly easy to pick apart. Target one hull zone and that is 6dmg required to drop it. So you need some way around that. Activation advantage would work, but isnt something that can be relied upon anymore. The alternative is to shove an ISD down someones throat so they get distracted with the impending doom.

Multiple threats!

The idea of pocket carriers themselves comes back quite well this wave, as with Relay or Centicore you can ping squads on the flank whilst performing the normal raider duty of closing the net on the enemy. So I can see pocket carriers coming back, just not necessarily in anti squadron fire set up.

So we all know that raiders are (in theory) the best AA platform in the game, however they also have a knack for exploding before they are able to really contribute all that much in terms of shooting down squads.... They also happen to be the cheapest platform that the empire has with a weapons team. I know most people (myself included) just slap ordinance experts on there and call it a day. HOWEVER, this slot can also be used for flight controllers!

Here is my thought process. With EHB and FC the raider 1 comes out to 55 points, 18 pts cheaper than the Victory, and with a token it can activate three squads at once. What if instead of using instigator to pin squadron balls, you send in a group of dedicated aces to kill the Intel, pinning the rest of the squads and forcing them to shoot at the scatter aces while the raider can now move up to flak next turn without fear of retribution. Here is what I have put together so far.

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)

= 58 total ship cost

Paired with

1 IG-88 ( 21 points)

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)

1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)

1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points)

Between the anti-Intel alpha and flechettes, I'm hoping I can prevent the enemy squad ball from being able to go anywhere for the most important turns of the game. The last bit I'm missing is the officer slot, which has several options.

Chirp-Derp- will guarantee I can get that sweet mauler autodamage as long as he is still alive, however, he's the most expensive option.

Minister Tua- add ECM so I can guarantee my brace and hopefully survive a large volley if the enemy takes a shot at me

Agent Kallus- without OE I'm pretty much just hoping for crits to proc flechettes, Kallus would help up that chance vs Uniques by adding another black die.

Has anyone tried something like this before? How did it go? Anyone have any other thoughts or suggestions?

I like it. I think I would either go with Kallus or one of the rarely used generic officers.

Chart Officer would allow you to focus less on flying and more on squadron management and followup engagement, regardless of proximity to obstacles.

Veteran Captain would allow you to some pretty good flexibility or unexpected amount of squadron activations in a turn. Reveal a squadron command, discard veteran captain, take a fighter token....or a nav token, or a concentrate fire token.

For more survivability, you could go with Admiral Montferrat..

Wulff or Commadant Aresko would allow some token manipulation.

I agree Admiral Chiraneau is a bit expensive to risk on a Raider unless you are very careful about positioning.

The raider works as a support carrier for anti squadron squadrons the Gozanti works better to support bombers because of the upgrades they can take.

So we all know that raiders are (in theory) the best AA platform in the game, however they also have a knack for exploding before they are able to really contribute all that much in terms of shooting down squads.... They also happen to be the cheapest platform that the empire has with a weapons team. I know most people (myself included) just slap ordinance experts on there and call it a day. HOWEVER, this slot can also be used for flight controllers!

Here is my thought process. With EHB and FC the raider 1 comes out to 55 points, 18 pts cheaper than the Victory, and with a token it can activate three squads at once. What if instead of using instigator to pin squadron balls, you send in a group of dedicated aces to kill the Intel, pinning the rest of the squads and forcing them to shoot at the scatter aces while the raider can now move up to flak next turn without fear of retribution. Here is what I have put together so far.

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)

- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)

- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)

= 58 total ship cost

Paired with

1 IG-88 ( 21 points)

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)

1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)

1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points)

Between the anti-Intel alpha and flechettes, I'm hoping I can prevent the enemy squad ball from being able to go anywhere for the most important turns of the game. The last bit I'm missing is the officer slot, which has several options.

Chirp-Derp- will guarantee I can get that sweet mauler autodamage as long as he is still alive, however, he's the most expensive option.

Minister Tua- add ECM so I can guarantee my brace and hopefully survive a large volley if the enemy takes a shot at me

Agent Kallus- without OE I'm pretty much just hoping for crits to proc flechettes, Kallus would help up that chance vs Uniques by adding another black die.

Has anyone tried something like this before? How did it go? Anyone have any other thoughts or suggestions?

I like it. I think I would either go with Kallus or one of the rarely used generic officers.

Chart Officer would allow you to focus less on flying and more on squadron management and followup engagement, regardless of proximity to obstacles.

Veteran Captain would allow you to some pretty good flexibility or unexpected amount of squadron activations in a turn. Reveal a squadron command, discard veteran captain, take a fighter token....or a nav token, or a concentrate fire token.

For more survivability, you could go with Admiral Montferrat..

Wulff or Commadant Aresko would allow some token manipulation.

I agree Admiral Chiraneau is a bit expensive to risk on a Raider unless you are very careful about positioning.

Kallus would be great and I was considering him to help generate more reliability for the flechettes due to lack of OE. I use vet captain a lot, slightly less now that comms net is out though. I like your idea of chart officer though, it could also help to "hide" my raider on an obstacle to protect myself from squadron shots or enemy ships without reprocussion.