I think of Diala as the glue that holds the party together. She isn't as good at attacking as other dedicated melee heroes due to her not having a gap closer. However, she brings a lot of other skills to the table that helps with general action economy and utility. If you have to change, you could take a dedicated damage dealer instead, but you will lose a lot in the transition.

Shyla and Garkhann close gaps in very different ways. I like Shyla more than I like Garkhaan due to her movement and placing shenanigans, but they are on about equal terms in power level.

MHD-19 is a solid semi-support/utility, I find. He can heal party members and do the occasional focused attack. I would rather go with Murne as the full support, I think.

You definitely miss Diala's rerolls when she isnt in party. Force Adept is just plain OP. But you dont need it nor her to win a campaign. She hasnt been in the last 4 or so campaigns ive been involved in (3 of those 4 had no S tier heroes at all). She is very strong, but in the long run, the chance to win a campaign doesnt go down by much by leaving her on the sidelines.

I have only played with MHD in one full campaign and havent had a chance to go back to it. Imo, the best supporting aspect of MHD is not the healing but the strain mitigation. MHD can fish adrenal stims out of the deck and when used with a strain intensive hero such as Verena it is very effective. I do think MHD is B tier but in the right party, it can definitely do work.

MHD-19 also focuses other heroes with Adrenaline Stims, and he can do that from the first mission of the campaign, unlike Diala, who needs to wait to afford Battle Meditation. (And fishing out and passing on Artificial Stimulants makes Loku's Combat Spotter crazily good.)

Focused is very valuable during the first few missions. And if the rebels win the first few missions, they are in a very good situation for the remainder of the campaign.

We are halfway through JR campaign and the rebels are using Fenn, Gideon, Shyla and Vinto.

Some thoughts as the Imperial that I am noticing:

• Hero comp makes low health deployment groups almost unusable. Between Fenn and Vinto, the rebels have too many tools to wipe out swarms of low-HP figures, not to mention Shyla getting cleave abilities.
• Equipment issues are not that huge so far. Vinto uses pistols and Fenn can grab a rifle, so while there is a bit of competition for the same equips, it is not that bad. Gideon and Shyla can also wait a while to upgrade - Gideon for the entire game and Shyla until Tier 3. The biggest problem is over assigning modifications between Fenn and Vinto.
• The party has one huge glaring weakness; it does not have a high single target damage dealer. Granted, between Vinto pinging shots and the occasional blast, they can get around double black die villains, but it is a problem. Elite probe droids, elite E-webs, plus the villains with recover also pose a problem because of this.
• This group has excellent movement. They can fly around the board.
• Strain control is also great. Fenn and Shyla have auto-remove abilities. Gideon gains removal. So far Vinto does not accumulate too much and what he does gain is removed through a surge roll on an attack.

I really like Shyla and Vinto. They seem to be well balanced. I do not think either are as powerful as Fenn or Gideon, but they both have a role and do it very well while not being OP'd on the base stat end of things. 11 health makes Vinto a squish and Shyla rolls black so if she does not eliminate her targets she can get chewed up and does not have the health of a wookie.

We are not done with the campaign and the major weakness of a lack of a dedicated single target damage dealer will be cured through equipment. I would like to see how this group would be swapping Gideon out for anyone else since he ends up being so dominate. I think with Diala instead of him, you would have a good semi-support who could also double as that damage dealer with either her lightsaber or the ancient lightsaber.

1 hour ago, Glaucon said:

We are halfway through JR campaign and the rebels are using Fenn, Gideon, Shyla and Vinto.

Some thoughts as the Imperial that I am noticing:

• Hero comp makes low health deployment groups almost unusable. Between Fenn and Vinto, the rebels have too many tools to wipe out swarms of low-HP figures, not to mention Shyla getting cleave abilities.
• Equipment issues are not that huge so far. Vinto uses pistols and Fenn can grab a rifle, so while there is a bit of competition for the same equips, it is not that bad. Gideon and Shyla can also wait a while to upgrade - Gideon for the entire game and Shyla until Tier 3. The biggest problem is over assigning modifications between Fenn and Vinto.
• The party has one huge glaring weakness; it does not have a high single target damage dealer. Granted, between Vinto pinging shots and the occasional blast, they can get around double black die villains, but it is a problem. Elite probe droids, elite E-webs, plus the villains with recover also pose a problem because of this.
• This group has excellent movement. They can fly around the board.
• Strain control is also great. Fenn and Shyla have auto-remove abilities. Gideon gains removal. So far Vinto does not accumulate too much and what he does gain is removed through a surge roll on an attack.

I really like Shyla and Vinto. They seem to be well balanced. I do not think either are as powerful as Fenn or Gideon, but they both have a role and do it very well while not being OP'd on the base stat end of things. 11 health makes Vinto a squish and Shyla rolls black so if she does not eliminate her targets she can get chewed up and does not have the health of a wookie.

We are not done with the campaign and the major weakness of a lack of a dedicated single target damage dealer will be cured through equipment. I would like to see how this group would be swapping Gideon out for anyone else since he ends up being so dominate. I think with Diala instead of him, you would have a good semi-support who could also double as that damage dealer with either her lightsaber or the ancient lightsaber.

In addition to increasing the single target damage through better weapons there are some upgrades the Rebels could consider. Fenn has Trench Fighter, Vinto has Merciless, and to a lesser extent, Shyla has Swords Dance which all help at dealing with the higher health/defense figures.

Trench Fighter is the 8xp pick for Fenn though. You will never pick it before Tactical Movement and Rebel Elite. I do agree however; once Merciless and Trench Fighter has been picked up, single target dmg should skyrocket.

10 hours ago, Dark Reaper said:

Trench Fighter is the 8xp pick for Fenn though. You will never pick it before Tactical Movement and Rebel Elite. I do agree however; once Merciless and Trench Fighter has been picked up, single target dmg should skyrocket.

Yes, for sure Tactical Movement and Rebel Elite are his first upgrades in any normal build. I sometimes prioritize Adrenaline Rush over Trench Fighter depending on whether the Imperial player has it out for Fenn since he is usually wiping out whole deployments by mid-campaign.

On 1/31/2017 at 1:07 AM, Dark Reaper said:

Trench Fighter is the 8xp pick for Fenn though. You will never pick it before Tactical Movement and Rebel Elite. I do agree however; once Merciless and Trench Fighter has been picked up, single target dmg should skyrocket.

So I barely hung on in the campaign. It is mostly through the Nemeses class deck and the ability to deploy Grand Inquisitor on turn 1 if there is an optional deployment, otherwise turn 2 and abusing the card that adds a black die to a villains defense pool.

Anyway, so thoughts on Vinto and Shyla since most people should know how stupidly abusive Fenn and Gideon can be.

Vinto is functioning as a hybrid of Fenn and Mak. I think Vinto works best with Merciless in combination with thread the needle. Combined with all the dice rerolling, Vinto can lay down damage on the "defeat x to win mission" type of targets. Rapid Fire was more annoying because of the rerolls, not so much the 1 point of damage. It nullified the lucky attack misses rolls. Shot on the run helps with the mobility and pinpoint shot was taken early and was valuable against certain figures - Nexu, or high HP targets - to put weakened on them. The 3 xp abilities cost too much. I think in most cases heroes are better off taking shot on the run and the 2 xp ability that gives +1 endurance rather than Dead On or the offhand blaster.

All in all, Vinto shouldn't be a group's highest damage output hero, but he is a solid number 2. In the early campaign, he was my rebels best character until Fenn and Gideon could get further into their xp cards. He is close to Fenn that he can clear out groups, but he has a lot of utility in softening up high hp targets. His big downside is that he is a squish and if the imperial player can reroll, or remove, his defense die he is going to be wounded quickly.

Shyla...

If you were to ask my rebels for the weakest hero in their team, she would probably be their choice. Her cleave 3 ability is great. She is the most mobile hero in the game - up to 3 free movement points per turn, plus another two from strain and a base speed of 5. Her weakness, in my mind, is similar to Vinto but more pronounced. She is a squish until she gets deadly grace. 12 health, black defense die, and only 4 endurance for a melee character is a bad combination. Rebels really need to think about activation order to protect her.

That said, the combination of her abilities, stats, and potential makes her the best melee character in the game, in my opinion. The cleave 3 for no strain or surge is fantastic (with the electrostaff it is straight up broken). Responsiveness might have replaced tactical movement as the best 1 xp class card. Deadly Grace is all around amazing. Her reward card turns her into boba fett. Swords Dance with a 3 attack die weapon turns her into one of the best single target damage dealers. This is what one action can look like at the end of a campaign: gain 3 movement points from responsiveness and deadly grace; attack target A with BRG from electrostaff and cleave 5 onto a 2nd target, then attack target A again with swords dance with RG. All for one action and one strain (for one more strain, you can use whip to pull a character in to reliably set up this combo).

So why would my rebels think she is the weakest in their group? She is a slow build and really does not benefit from tier 1 or tier 2 weapons. Until she can get deadly grace, she takes a lot of thought in where she moves, and when she activates. She does not have a way to reroll attribute tests, which my rebels fell into a trap of sending her to do tests because of her speed. Her dice aren't terrible, they are pretty good, but she is not meant to be a skill monkey. She is a pure melee damage dealer that needs a bit of help with her health, but solidly in that top tier of characters.

a) I only play against 1 player and they only want to use two heroes which two would be best for her to use?

b) she seems to really want gaarkhan as one of them so who should be the other if that is the case?

c) she might consider going to three so who would be a good add on to the base two?

thanks

On 1/25/2017 at 5:34 PM, machfalcon said:

I played Murne with Waylay and found her to be quite underwhelming in that you have to get good positioning to use False Orders and it seems like the Imperial player can somewhat play around it. Were you thinking a build centered around her False Orders or more hybrid with Lead from the Front? I suppose there are other tools in her kit such as Rebel Propaganda and Professional Aide but the effectiveness of Gideon's action economy is so hard to match (why did they have to make him so good?).

Edit: note - I only played Murne in a Bespin Gambit campaign where I was controlling four heroes so my experience is probably a bit skewed.

Murne with Waylay has been dominant in our Hoth campaign. Her strain assistance is huge against Subversive Tactics deck (although as u said, positioning dependant). Our party are big fans of the Murne.

This is a great thread, thank you all for the helpful thoughts posted.

For the next campaign (Jabbas Realm) rebels are thinking about a group of Vinto, Onar, Shyla and MHD - a set of heros none of us has ever played before. Do you think they could work together? Guess it could be fun not to take either Gideon, Diala or Fenn for a change...

On 02/22/2017 at 8:13 AM, stato said:

This is a great thread, thank you all for the helpful thoughts posted.

For the next campaign (Jabbas Realm) rebels are thinking about a group of Vinto, Onar, Shyla and MHD - a set of heros none of us has ever played before. Do you think they could work together? Guess it could be fun not to take either Gideon, Diala or Fenn for a change...

That can work, however MHD is best with strain intensive heroes. None of the new heroes are particularly strain intensive. It doesnt mean MHD will be useless, but removing strain from Shyla isnt the same as removing strain from Gaarkhan. That said, both Shyla and Vinto don't have much defense in their decks (other than Vintos reward), and extra healing is decent to make up for it.

I played Shyla in a campaign recently and I think she might be one of the strongest, if not the strongest, melee hero in the game. I reckon she will work in almost any party. Her ability to move 3 spaces for free, recover fatigue, get extra attacks late game, mess up the positioning of Imperial units, re-roll defence die and attack die, and have a surge cancel in base makes her such a flexible and fun hero to play. She can do with something to prevent her from being stunned, but she isn't a hero that needs a lot of support.

Thanks for the reply, Deadwolf ! With MHD we were mostly hoping for him to take care of negative conditions on Vinto and Shyla and to maybe get focus through medical equipment when needed. And since Onar doesn't have a defense die, the healing might really help everyone on the team... Haven't thought of strain really, thanks for pointing that out!

Personally, in this team I'm most skeptical about Onar. Let's see how it will go.

On 25.1.2017 at 7:15 PM, machfalcon said:

Looking to build a party for an upcoming Jabba's Realm campaign and just wanting to bounce some ideas. In our previous Return to Hoth campaign, we ran the "elite three" (Gideon, Diala, Fenn) plus Loku and it was very unbalanced versus Precision Training. This time around, we're hoping to have a good competitive game but as one of the Rebels, I also want to create a party with good synergy. Also, ideally would like to include some heroes from the JR expansion or heroes we have not played before.

So, here's the thinking:

• Mak or Onar for high damage single target ranged (Mak with "No Escape" or Onar with "Don't make me Hurt you") - we have not played either character in our group
• Shyla or Verena for melee - both seem very strong and we have not played either in any prior campaigns
• Vinto for dealing with floods of low hp units like troopers
• Gideon, Diala or maybe to a lesser extent MHD as support - leaning towards Gideon since his usefulness in being a force multiplier is unmatched. However, the Rebels have used him in our prior two campaigns so might be nice to switch it up.

The biggest decisions to make I think are the first two listed. I could easily go either way on those picks. The support pick I'm having a hard time feeling like anyone other than Gideon can have the same level of impact (especially if we go with both Vinto and Shyla who can both acquire reroll abilities, making Diala and Force Adept less needed).

Anyway, looking for some thoughts and opinions on what people think. I'm a min-maxer at heart so it's hard not to just pick Gideon, Fenn, Diala and one other but looking to break the mold a bit with this campaign to make things more fun.

Hey machfalon. We tried MHD, Vinto, Onar and Shyla in the JR campaign: really fun and effective team. The result was 7 rebel vs 4 imperial mission wins against a very competetive imperial playing nemeses (with Dengar and the GI). Pretty nice result for the rebs. Too bad we lost the finale (storming the palace - too recklessly...)

3 hours ago, stato said:

Hey machfalon. We tried MHD, Vinto, Onar and Shyla in the JR campaign: really fun and effective team. The result was 7 rebel vs 4 imperial mission wins against a very competetive imperial playing nemeses (with Dengar and the GI). Pretty nice result for the rebs. Too bad we lost the finale (storming the palace - too recklessly...)

We're 8 missions in running Shyla, Vinto, Mak, Murne against the Nemeses deck in our JR campaign. The breakdown is something like 4-3 in favor of the Rebels with 1 mission that was played incorrectly and therefore we ended up giving both sides the winning reward instead of replaying the mission. I think we are at the point in the campaign where we are starting to really amp up the damage output making it difficult for the Imperial player to keep figures on the board. We'll see how the rest of the campaign goes but our Imperial was feeling a little demoralized seeing the damage output in the previous mission.

15 hours ago, machfalcon said:

We're 8 missions in running Shyla, Vinto, Mak, Murne against the Nemeses deck in our JR campaign. The breakdown is something like 4-3 in favor of the Rebels with 1 mission that was played incorrectly and therefore we ended up giving both sides the winning reward instead of replaying the mission. I think we are at the point in the campaign where we are starting to really amp up the damage output making it difficult for the Imperial player to keep figures on the board. We'll see how the rest of the campaign goes but our Imperial was feeling a little demoralized seeing the damage output in the previous mission.

so the relative squishiness of Mak&Murne doesn't matter as long as there is no one left to shoot you... nice. that does sound demoralizing for the imp!

I wouldn't be so quick to write off the game with less than 4 heroes.
Just speaking on the pick up game scene for campaign where often you have a single player for the Rebels and a single player for the Imperials, literally before anybody even talks about the idea of running 4 heroes we talk about who wants to actually be the Imperial Player b/c honestly being the Imperial Player is easier than running four Heroes by yourself.