So I have been playing with the idea of the VSD as a gunship ever scents the Interdictor came out, as I felt the ships just fit well together. I also failed, but with JJ out I wanted to give it another shot, and am pleased to say I have had some success.

My first variation was as follows:

VSD I (73 points)

Ordnance experts 4 points

X17 6 points

total 83 points

I liked this variation and it did very well for me, but I felt like it was lacking a little punch, and needed more consistency at long rage. I came up with this variation of the ship.

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
= 89 total ship cost

It has DTT for more consistency at long rage and with red dice, and as I had to give up X17 I thought that ACM would help punish other ships for redirecting and giving it more punch as well. I was just wondering if anyone has had any success with using VSDs as gunships, and how they build them?

Alone in itself, a VSD is not a gunship because it barely can turn its guns towards the enemy. You need Jerjerrod to do help you with that.

VSD I - Vet Gunners.

Nice and simple and cheap. Means i can have multiple

I fell like an Arquitens at long range with DTT for 59 points is better as a long range gunship with similar durability because of the range.

I'm giving it a shot in a CC Fleet, so far jerjy has made it a pretty good. I've got gunnery teams on it to make the most out of it's front when it pulls a speed 2 ll ll. We'll see how it runs with Tua, though torn between ECM and blast doors.

ECMs can save you more than 3 damage. I feel blast doors are best on Arquitens or MC80 Assault Cruisers.

I had a similar idea to use the Interdictor to help drag enemy ships in front of a Victory I and keep them there. Ships rolling at speed 1 could stay in a VSD's front arc for a turn or three with JJrod in charge. I thought an overload pulse on the Interdictor just prior to the VSD might be nice with all it's blue dice. Maybe add a Raider I as a clean-up crew and anti-fighter? If you imagine a ship that gets hit by the Interdictor, then the VSD, with the Raider to finish over a few turns, could be nice. You'd only get a simple screening fighter group into that list though, Interdictors hit the wallet hard. Just theory, probably has a lot of holes in it.

VSD I - Vet Gunners.

Nice and simple and cheap. Means i can have multiple

Do you think DTT changes this?

VSD I - Vet Gunners.

Nice and simple and cheap. Means i can have multiple

Do you think DTT changes this?

Could be an alternative. Dtt doesnt help with really rubbish roles and doesnt increase in utility at close range.

Spinal Armament+Gunnery Teams is a pretty good place to start for using the VSD as a gunship. I am strongly opposed to any upgrades that rely on getting a VSD-I into black dice range - those black dice can definitely get some work done but they're usually more effective as a deterrent than they are as damage-dealers due to the VSD's poor speed and maneuverability (or to put it another way: the points you spend on Ordnance Experts and ordnance upgrades on a Raider or Gladiator are points better spent as they'll get more regular use).

Past that I'd recommend some differing upgrades depending on who your commander is:

• Jerry: fine as is, although if you've got an empty seat for Wulff or Aresko to get more Engineering tokens it can be rather useful
• Vader: I generally prefer Intel Officer on my Vader VSD-Is for ensuring my rerolled red dice range volleys connect more powerfully, but pt106 makes a good argument for using Defense Liaison with a Comms Net Gozanti for spamming Concentrate Fire then shifting to Nav or Engineering when necessary.
• Tarkin: Liaisons all the way. If you're not using Liaisons on your VSDs with Tarkin it feels like an incomplete use of your Commander's ability. I generally prefer Defense Liaisons with Tarkin, but Weapons Liaisons can be useful if you intend to spam Navigate/Engineering but occasionally want to switch out for an ideal Concentrate Fire or (more likely) Squadrons. Depends on your fleet build.
• Motti: Tua with ECMs for suresies, provided she's not busy elsewhere. 11 hull VSDs are legit.

It's about as expensive as a naked ISD 2. But I really like this configuration. I usually run it with Motti to give it a respectable 10 HP.

It's great at tagging flotillas. And I LOVE it with the Close-Range Intel Scan objective.

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Warlord ( 8 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Sensor Team ( 5 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 122 total ship cost

*hides his defribillator*

I was looking at throwing together a VSD for part of a Konstantine list with the following loadout;

• Intel Officers
• XI7 Turbolasers

My decision-making process is stalling at the point of "should this be on a I or II chasis?" with the II I get the additional blue dice to allow for more easily getting attacks in range, but the I is cheap enough that I can squeeze in another interceptor.

The list already includes a VSD-I with EHBs and a Coms-Net Goz, alongside a Tua-RBD, G8 interdictor flagship, and was looking for a bit more punch.

On 1/21/2017 at 0:01 PM, Democratus said:

It's about as expensive as a naked ISD 2. But I really like this configuration. I usually run it with Motti to give it a respectable 10 HP.

It's great at tagging flotillas. And I LOVE it with the Close-Range Intel Scan objective.

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Warlord ( 8 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Sensor Team ( 5 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 122 total ship cost

Warlord and sw7 is likely a bit redundant. A lot of points for effects that step on eachothers toes. Failing that sensor team conflicts with the other 2 directly, opposing goals.

A reroll tech like veteran Gunners is probably much better served. (With warlord). Gunners + quad is also fun as you can ReRoll the accuracy. Jonus is a better way to force the accuracy of you feel you need it bad enough, and works for all your ships.

5 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Warlord and sw7 is likely a bit redundant. A lot of points for effects that step on eachothers toes. Failing that sensor team conflicts with the other 2 directly, opposing goals.

A reroll tech like veteran Gunners is probably much better served. (With warlord). Gunners + quad is also fun as you can ReRoll the accuracy. Jonus is a better way to force the accuracy of you feel you need it bad enough, and works for all your ships.

The way I use it is that I have Sensor Team spend a die to change another to an accuracy. Then I use the QTC to add another accuracy. Then I user Warlord to change one of the accuracies to a double-hit.

So even if I roll [BLANK]-[BLANK]-[HIT], I can turn it into [ACCURACY]-[DOUBLE-HIT]-[HIT]. SW 7 just means an automatic +3 damage in medium range.

6 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Warlord and sw7 is likely a bit redundant. A lot of points for effects that step on eachothers toes. Failing that sensor team conflicts with the other 2 directly, opposing goals.

A reroll tech like veteran Gunners is probably much better served. (With warlord). Gunners + quad is also fun as you can ReRoll the accuracy. Jonus is a better way to force the accuracy of you feel you need it bad enough, and works for all your ships.

Actually, SW7 only works with blue dice, where as Warlord can change a red Acc into a double, and with Sensor Team and QTC, you always deal 2 damage with an Acc. It works great. And SW7 ups the damage output from your blue Acc, which you don't really need since you have the free red one.

I'd prefer GT on it instead of Sensor. Pair with Jonus and you can always have the Acc.

I used VSD as a cheap and expendable gunship in several of my recent build and was pretty satisfied with it's performance.

I think that the key to a VSD in non-Jerry builds is to have a way to deal with red dice unreliability, use Def liason, have a supply of tokens and CF all dials.

The two builds that I used were:

Vader's special: VSD1: Def Liason, Gunnery team, Spinals. (92 points, a lot of firepower)

Flotilla's nightmare: VSD1: Warlord, Def Liason, Sensor Team, Spinals (98 points, up to five reds in a front arc, can replace two blank reds with a double or accuracy)

Really DTT and Ord should be plenty of firepower! Add a conc fire and Jerry?
You have one red reroll at long range, and 3 blacks at short range.

Why does DTT not help at range? It should reliably give you a few hits, one of which will be evaded. No big deal.

Veteran Gunner sounds like a fun idea too.

1 hour ago, Alzer said:

*hides his defribillator*

I was looking at throwing together a VSD for part of a Konstantine list with the following loadout;

• Intel Officers
• XI7 Turbolasers

My decision-making process is stalling at the point of "should this be on a I or II chasis?" with the II I get the additional blue dice to allow for more easily getting attacks in range, but the I is cheap enough that I can squeeze in another interceptor.

The list already includes a VSD-I with EHBs and a Coms-Net Goz, alongside a Tua-RBD, G8 interdictor flagship, and was looking for a bit more punch.

I don't think the Intel Officer is nearly as useful an inclusion on a VSD-II as on a VSD-I but it's always better to have than have not provided you have nothing better to do with the points.

I'm also not really sold on a VSD producing enough damage to regularly make XI7s a worthwhile upgrade and would prefer something that produces more dice (Spinals), allows for more dice control (Dual Turbos) or produces a near-guarantee of an accuracy result (H9s). For larger ships XI7s are a much easier buy.

I just wrote a huge article on VSDs should you find that helpful.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Actually, SW7 only works with blue dice, where as Warlord can change a red Acc into a double, and with Sensor Team and QTC, you always deal 2 damage with an Acc. It works great. And SW7 ups the damage output from your blue Acc, which you don't really need since you have the free red one.

I'd prefer GT on it instead of Sensor. Pair with Jonus and you can always have the Acc.

Yes sw7 only works on blues, but warlord can also work ok a blue. I stand by the above, a more efficient alternative. We don't exactly have points to burn.

So I'm curious if I'm just missing it, but where are the needa/sensor teams/sw-7s/turbolaser reroute/warlord/ posts at?

This build can hit a consistent minimum of 7 damage with a peak of 11 depending on rolls and the use of a confire. That's almost as good as my ISD II Avenger which does a minimum of 8 consistently and maxes at 14.

Personally, I couldn't justify the 41 point difference between my maximized ISD II and VSD II, seeing as the ISD hits harder, can take avenger, and will have gunnery teams and ECMs....

I've popped too many VSDs in a single shot to put any faith in it. lol

14 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I don't think the Intel Officer is nearly as useful an inclusion on a VSD-II as on a VSD-I but it's always better to have than have not provided you have nothing better to do with the points.

I just wrote a huge article on VSDs should you find that helpful.

I was thinking against a heavier ship with brace and redirect, (thinking primarily MC80s) where I can intel the brace, that way I'm making sure damage is going through. I could certainly see dual turbos though. Ultimately trading blows with other gunships is just not a healthy place for a VIC to be regardless I suppose. Intel officer also lets it mess up a flotilla that gets in my scopes.

Yeah I gave it a read pretty much the moment it published. I'm just one of those hipstery folks that likes to ignore the "tried and true" and experiment for themselves. I'll give it some review though.

4 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Yes sw7 only works on blues, but warlord can also work ok a blue. I stand by the above, a more efficient alternative. We don't exactly have points to burn.

Why would you use Warlord on a blue? And Sensor Team is not redundant when it gives you 2 damage and 1 Acc everytime on the fickle red dice. SW7 means you always have 3 damage on blues. So I don't know what you are getting at or what you don't like about the build.

Veteran Gunners is not good on a ship with heavy die manipulation like a QTC Warlord. You have to reroll ALL your dice. So if you get a red Acc on the first roll, you get to add another. Reroll. If you don't get an Acc on that, Warlord is no good since you have SW7. Or you Warlord before VG, which is pointless since you will drop your damage. A better choice is LS, since you will have 4 reds with a CF, and 2 blues after the reroll, and you get to choose what you want to roll.

A Vic II, with Screed, CF dial+token, Warlord, QTC, GT, and LS can average 8.74 damage and .98 Acc, assuming you reroll blue Acc, Warlord the QTC Acc to a double, and you get a blank to Screed with. And with GT, you can do this twice.

2 minutes ago, Alzer said:

I was thinking against a heavier ship with brace and redirect, (thinking primarily MC80s) where I can intel the brace, that way I'm making sure damage is going through. I could certainly see dual turbos though. Ultimately trading blows with other gunships is just not a healthy place for a VIC to be regardless I suppose. Intel officer also lets it mess up a flotilla that gets in my scopes.

In my experience, VSDs actually do come off pretty well when trading blows with other gunships but it needs to be an equal number of points - so two near-naked VSDs versus one upgraded MC80 will usually come out ahead. assuming all ships are operating under ideal circumstances (so best arcs versus best arcs). A VSD versus a heavier ship will of course not usually come out ahead if it's going it solo.

I see what you're going for with Intel Officer + XI7s but due to speed2/poor maneuverability with VSDs, it's rare to get your full front arc with a VSD-I and therefore the XI7s aren't usually that important when only dealing a moderate amount of damage (about 2.25 average) at long range. With a VSD-II the situation at long range is the same, but at medium or close, the odds of rolling an accuracy go up pretty significantly, which makes the Intel Officer much less important.

2 hours ago, Alzer said:

*hides his defribillator*

I was looking at throwing together a VSD for part of a Konstantine list with the following loadout;

• Intel Officers
• XI7 Turbolasers

FWIW, at the moment, I'm trying Konstantine in our CC campaign with a pair of Victory-IIs (w/ SW7s) and an Interdictor (so three possible ships to trigger his 'at least two in range' condition). With the Interdictor toting G7-X to slow the enemy approach, and G-8 to build on Konstantine's effect, my plan is that the list should do okay getting the enemy "stuck" in-arc. The Victory, after all, does have a generous front arc - just needs to slow down the Rebels once they get into it.

Konstantine's ability, though...I dunno, it really doesn't seem to trigger very often. You'd think, with 3 ships, you'd have it happen at least a few times a game, but the requirement to have two ships in range of enemy ships just seems to happen pretty rarely. Like, once, maybe, on turn 4 - possibly a couple times on turn 5, and by turn 6 it usually doesn't matter one way or the other.

(Still relatively new to the game, but very quickly starting to evaluate commanders by "how often does that ability actually trigger in a game?" And, for Konstantine, so far, the answer seems to be 'rarely - and when it does, it usually doesn't matter')

1 minute ago, xanderf said:

(Still relatively new to the game, but very quickly starting to evaluate commanders by "how often does that ability actually trigger in a game?" And, for Konstantine, so far, the answer seems to be 'rarely - and when it does, it usually doesn't matter')

This has also been my experience - Konstantine's ability is fairly niche and can be difficult to trigger with the slower Imperial medium sized ships - conversely you can use the faster ISDs, but then your number of "trigger points" in a list goes down, which is its own separate problem. Even when it does go off, it only sometimes makes a difference (other front arc ships/Imperials overall generally don't care about their speed changing) and navigate tokens/commands can help counteract it. Sometimes it can be pretty effective, don't get me wrong, but "sometimes this commander is basically useless" is not a great foundation to build on. I was excited to try a speed control fleet when he arrived (as were many others) but after several games I left very underwhelmed. Oh well.

But anyways, I assumed Alzer was committed to Konstantine regardless of my personal feelings on the matter and we were just discussing VSD builds overall.