Had a situation last night where the 5 goblin archers were in a U formation. Leoric ran up into the cleft of the U, so he was adjacent to all of them. He then used his Heroic Feat so his attack affected every goblin.

He rolled 4 damage and a surge, and used the surge to make the attack a blast, turning himself into a point blank cluster bomb.

So we resolved the first on one goblin as full damage, then half damage (rtl) to all adjacent goblins (and Leoric). Then repeat for the next goblin. The second blast killed the third goblin.

My question is, is all damage and attack/defense rolling considered simultaneous? We played it as yes, so rolled direct and blast for every goblin. If no, there would have been a blast gap where the one in the middle died so that his blast wouldnt have affected the fourth and fifth.

Blast is not a separate attack for each target. It is a single attack roll that gets spread out to many targets. So each goblin in this case can only be hit by the attack once, no matter how many times a blast includes them in its radius. Also it doesn't matter if any targets die during the attack, as the attack hits every figure simultaneously regardless of origins.

Honestly adding blast was a waste in this case.

Agreed. Small point of clarification, the damage isn"t "spread out" over all affected figures, they're all affecred by the full attack (many half in RtL).

As stated, for Leoric's Heroic feat, blast is redundant, as his feat achieves essentially the same thing.

Thanks everyone. We just assumed that if Leoric's Heroic Feat was meant to be a standard Blast, it would have used the term there, so our interpretation was that it didn't follow the Blast rules. Instead, it gets treated as a separate attack on every adjacent figure.

With the damage change to multiple targets in RtL I would really like to see a clarification from FFG on whether Leoric's Heroic Feat should follow the Blast rules, or if it is considered a straight full attack on each adjacent model.

Feels like the language never mattered until RtL where Blast damage changed.

You asked if the rolls are considered simultaneous, this is only the case if all figures are targeted (like in Leorics feat). But with surge: blast, the target figures rolls first, surges are spent (possibly on blast) and then the affected figures roll defense dice. This becomes relevant when the attacker has multiple ways to spend the surges and wants to see the defense results before making the final decision.

I can target a monster, roll attack dice, it rolls defense dice, I then decide what to spend surges on. Are you saying I could choose blast, have all adjacent figures roll defense dice, and then change my mind about using that surge for blast? That doesn't seem right. If this is what you are saying, can you point me to the rules that allow this? Thanks!

Thanks everyone. We just assumed that if Leoric's Heroic Feat was meant to be a standard Blast, it would have used the term there, so our interpretation was that it didn't follow the Blast rules. Instead, it gets treated as a separate attack on every adjacent figure.

With the damage change to multiple targets in RtL I would really like to see a clarification from FFG on whether Leoric's Heroic Feat should follow the Blast rules, or if it is considered a straight full attack on each adjacent model.

Feels like the language never mattered until RtL where Blast damage changed.

From the RtL rules page 10

ATTACKING MULTIPLE MONSTERS

When a hero performs an attack that targets or affects multiple monsters, the monsters gain an additional advantage during the “Deal Damage” step. Choose 1 monster to which you will deal damage first and resolve the step as normal. Then halve the ≥ results (rounded up), and apply that value to each of the additional monsters, before applying ≤. This rule applies to attacks with Blast but also actions such as “Whirlwind,” “Army of Death,” and Leoric of the Book’s Heroic Feat.

Emphasis mine.

If you are adding blast using a surge ability, yes, that blast is only added after the attacker and the target rolled dice. Note that the target is the target of the attack without blast. When you then decide to add Blast at the Spend surges step, any figure that is affected in addition to the target rolls their defence dice in that step.

Maybe this helps with any other questions on combat:

You asked if the rolls are considered simultaneous, this is only the case if all figures are targeted (like in Leorics feat). But with surge: blast, the target figures rolls first, surges are spent (possibly on blast) and then the affected figures roll defense dice. This becomes relevant when the attacker has multiple ways to spend the surges and wants to see the defense results before making the final decision.

I can target a monster, roll attack dice, it rolls defense dice, I then decide what to spend surges on. Are you saying I could choose blast, have all adjacent figures roll defense dice, and then change my mind about using that surge for blast? That doesn't seem right. If this is what you are saying, can you point me to the rules that allow this? Thanks!

No, once you resolve the effects of the surge, the surge is spent. Of course this depends on your group and how strict you play. Like, when you pick up a figure you have to move with it (like chess). You can choose whatever you like, maybe when you declare something, or when you roll the dice.

But when the attack targets the figures (like Leorics feat) all the targeted figures roll defense and the attacker may choose how to spend surges. But if those figures were only affected by blast, the attacker must first decide how to spend surges, and only then does the attacked figure roll defense.

Thanks everyone. We just assumed that if Leoric's Heroic Feat was meant to be a standard Blast, it would have used the term there, so our interpretation was that it didn't follow the Blast rules. Instead, it gets treated as a separate attack on every adjacent figure.

With the damage change to multiple targets in RtL I would really like to see a clarification from FFG on whether Leoric's Heroic Feat should follow the Blast rules, or if it is considered a straight full attack on each adjacent model.

Feels like the language never mattered until RtL where Blast damage changed.

From the RtL rules page 10

ATTACKING MULTIPLE MONSTERS

When a hero performs an attack that targets or affects multiple monsters, the monsters gain an additional advantage during the “Deal Damage” step. Choose 1 monster to which you will deal damage first and resolve the step as normal. Then halve the ≥ results (rounded up), and apply that value to each of the additional monsters, before applying ≤. This rule applies to attacks with Blast but also actions such as “Whirlwind,” “Army of Death,” and Leoric of the Book’s Heroic Feat.

Emphasis mine.

Lol, thanks, completely missed that this is one of the examples quoted in the rule.

You asked if the rolls are considered simultaneous, this is only the case if all figures are targeted (like in Leorics feat). But with surge: blast, the target figures rolls first, surges are spent (possibly on blast) and then the affected figures roll defense dice. This becomes relevant when the attacker has multiple ways to spend the surges and wants to see the defense results before making the final decision.

I can target a monster, roll attack dice, it rolls defense dice, I then decide what to spend surges on. Are you saying I could choose blast, have all adjacent figures roll defense dice, and then change my mind about using that surge for blast? That doesn't seem right. If this is what you are saying, can you point me to the rules that allow this? Thanks!

No, once you resolve the effects of the surge, the surge is spent. Of course this depends on your group and how strict you play. Like, when you pick up a figure you have to move with it (like chess). You can choose whatever you like, maybe when you declare something, or when you roll the dice.

But when the attack targets the figures (like Leorics feat) all the targeted figures roll defense and the attacker may choose how to spend surges. But if those figures were only affected by blast, the attacker must first decide how to spend surges, and only then does the attacked figure roll defense.

When you said "this becomes relevant when the attacker has multiple ways to spend the surges and wants to see the defense results before making the final decision" I couldn't tell if you meant that the attacker could make that decision even after defense dice for surge: blast were rolled.

We are on the same page, thanks!

You asked if the rolls are considered simultaneous, this is only the case if all figures are targeted (like in Leorics feat). But with surge: blast, the target figures rolls first, surges are spent (possibly on blast) and then the affected figures roll defense dice. This becomes relevant when the attacker has multiple ways to spend the surges and wants to see the defense results before making the final decision.

I can target a monster, roll attack dice, it rolls defense dice, I then decide what to spend surges on. Are you saying I could choose blast, have all adjacent figures roll defense dice, and then change my mind about using that surge for blast? That doesn't seem right. If this is what you are saying, can you point me to the rules that allow this? Thanks!

No, once you resolve the effects of the surge, the surge is spent. Of course this depends on your group and how strict you play. Like, when you pick up a figure you have to move with it (like chess). You can choose whatever you like, maybe when you declare something, or when you roll the dice.

But when the attack targets the figures (like Leorics feat) all the targeted figures roll defense and the attacker may choose how to spend surges. But if those figures were only affected by blast, the attacker must first decide how to spend surges, and only then does the attacked figure roll defense.

When you said "this becomes relevant when the attacker has multiple ways to spend the surges and wants to see the defense results before making the final decision" I couldn't tell if you meant that the attacker could make that decision even after defense dice for surge: blast were rolled.

We are on the same page, thanks!

In hindsight I wasn't very clear:p