not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

Good catch. Maybe they used the super force. The point still stands that under that logic, squadron commands should not have ranges, rendering boosted comms unnecessary and obsolete. One could also argue that a fortified, fixed position (Yavin Command Center) has hardware that would allow for a long ranged transmission. Accepting that as an explanation, we're still back at square one.

I'm really not trying to make a point. I'm fine with Flotillas as they are so I don't have a dog in the fight.

My interpretation of the range of squadron commands is more about gameplay mechanics than thematic mechanics.

Would you be ok buying a car for fifty thousand dollars if you knew for a fact someone bought that same car with the same options for twenty-five thousand dollars?

If thats a rhetorical question, I don't understand what point it makes.

If it's not rhetorical, I'm somewhat annoyed you didn't just make the follow up point to what would obviously be a "No" answer.

One cost of the lifeboat strategy that I see is that it costs a prime deployment.

If you want to drop it outside the battle, you have to deploy it late or last, which is the deployment that I like to use for my heavy hitters.

If you drop the lifeboat early, then I just set my fleet up where it can get to the lifeboat.

But I don't see many lifeboats, so I don't have much experience fighting them. Usually, my opponents put their flotillas as trailers or flankers to use slicers, commsnet, or BCC.

I've felt this before. Do I use Sato as deployment advantage but give away where he will be? Or do I give up deployment advantage for Paragon?

I think this decision is what makes this balanced.

Somewhat agree to that last point until you factor in the relative cost of ignoring the flotilla, which swings it back towards imbalance.

Well if you choose to ignore it, then how can you count that into it being imbalanced? Basically it's your 400 point fleet vs my 350. Flotillas are amazing at killing squads and draw fire or can be used for obstruction of blocking.

I suppose if you go strictly by the math, you can make a case for imbalance. But there is so much that goes into this game it is hard to qualify or quantify imbalance. But you say " The skinny of it is, if flotillas weren't a problem/issue/point of contention, they wouldn't come up all the time." and I don't know where this is coming from. How many threads have been made discussing the problem of flotillas?

As of right now 3 I can think of off the top of my head. 2 made by you, and 1 by StarKiller.

And according to Schimmty's data, 83% of Rebel players bring at least 1 flotilla, and 71% of Imps bring at least 1 Gozanti. You can find the spreadsheet here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jHYRewqhbVX6HSaWHNAPHTtPxW2uAaVTzYMq5D0-0pg/edit#gid=1737564488

So where is the issue here? If everyone (83% and 71%) of people use flotillas, why do they need to be nerfed? You wrote out a very long argument, but I don't see a ton of people that support this idea, which again, is implied by " they wouldn't come up all the time"

On another note, I don't think the commanders have any game breaking mechanic because they help the whole fleet. You can only have 1, and they cost quite a bit. Making them range only would mean FFG would have to rewrite some of them, Motti and Rieekan, and would ahve to change the cost. Not to mention it would completely change how the game was played. Seems like dropping a nuke when we need a scalpal for this life boat sugject you want to change.

Thats a pretty argumentative post, however I think some of these arguments operate on a wrong set of assumptions. Lets start with the first one: how to calculate cost imbalance.

Because an Admiral can apply his effect regardless of range to any ship, the lifeboat flotilla is effectively an 18-23 points investment. The Admiral is not factored into this because he's not a factor in the tactic of placing a cheap unit in a corner.

Thats a wrong assumption. One of the reasons of placing Admiral in a cheap unit is to spread the points across the fleet, so the loss of any ship is recoverable points-wise and there is no point sink that will be a primary attack target. So once admiral is on the flotilla it becomes a 50-60 points that can be gained from killing it (and it can be killed by a 44-points raider). So the whole talk about points imbalance doesn't really make sense from my perspective - as we're now talking about sending 50-60 points ship to kill 50-60 points and survive (as there is no chance for flotilla to kill it.

Now lets talk about flotilla killers (I assume Imperial ones)

1. Raider. Thats all it takes. There is no need to load anything on it, he'll get that flotilla. Maybe it'll take him 2-3 rounds but he'll get it.

2. Gladiator. A usual GSD loadout with Intel officer - poof. Dead flotilla in two rounds. It may be even a half-dead Demolisher going after that admiral after successful run on a ship.

3. Squadrons. Bossk + Zertik. Done. Bossk gets his free accuracy and keeps bombing.

4. A set of rogues that keeps going and going.

5. ...

Essentially I think that we're at a point in the cycle where usuing a lifeboat flotilla is riskier and riskier and we'll see a decline in the use of this strategy over a next few months.

As stated in my example, if you wish to include the cost of an admiral in the lifeboat, that's fine but it has to be done across the entire fleet since the admiral effects the entire fleet. In the provided example, I used Dodonna in a 4 activation fleet, effectively increasing the cost of the flotilla by +5. To reflect this increase, I offered detractors to remove .5 from my estimates.

The logic behind this is fairly simple. Upgrades factored into the cost of that ship effect only that ship (or allow it to manipulate the battle in some way). To assign the entire value of a card that affects your entire fleet to a single ship is misleading in the extreme.

1) It's stilla points imbalance and a unit that is effectively lost for the rest of the battle.

2) Will never return to the battle in time and an even higher points cost than my Raider example.

3) Purely fighter-dice are highly unreliable since the only thing that applies damage is actual hits, which is why I included Vader.

Perhaps.

Oh sweet jesus enough.

They use a radio to communicate. Going to complain about radios in a game where we hyperspace?

Mareek Stele + Jendon for the floatilla hunter. Command them with your own Floatilla for great justice.

And keep posting. You are the main drum beater on the issue. Hopefully you'll get a holiday and we have peace in our time.

If they use a radio to communicate from across the map, why are squadron commands limited to long range (w/Boosted Comms)?

Stele + Jendon is still 21 + 20 points for a total of 41 and therefore 2.28 times more expensive than the flotilla itself. They also have no way to stop scatter so will take atleast 2 turns, making it doubtful they'd be able to return to the battle. What happens in your example when your opponent stops them with a single z-95?

This is my first post about this, I am not the main drum beater, and I have no holiday coming up.

Fantastic, helpful attitude, though. Truly in the spirit of the post. Well done.

You are a moron without comparison.

Jedon/Stele is the same almost the same cost as 20 and 18, cheapest boat.

You complain about life boats but say that jendon/marek are twice the cost...sure...OF A NON ADMIRAL BOAT FLOATILLA

Jedon attacks twice. Floatilla scatters twice. You kill it next round.

You shift the goal posts every time. Jedon/Stele will eat this magically conjured headhunter in one shot or avoid or its good for me that you have squadrons protecting the boat, makes you easier to table.

See how easy inventing anything you want to suit your argument is.

Not to mention floatillas make large ship lists awesome, or squadron screens, or repair fleets, or slicer tools/ecm or any number of ways to play.

No longer respondin to somebody who cleary is trolling and using every logical fallacy they can employ to drag tbe forum fown with them

Reported and i hope you are banned.

And this is how you fly in the face of the spirit of open debate and free discussion.

I have no problem with flotillas as a chariot and generally think that overall flotillas have been great for the game.

I'd like you to consider in your math about efficiency of hunting down a lifeboat that it is misleading to not also include the cost of the Admiral.

The cheapest possible lifeboat would be 38 points, not 18. The could also cost as much as 61 points with no other upgrades.

I welcomed factoring in the commander but since it effects the entire fleet, it's more misleading to factor him into the cost of the flotilla, which is why I stated in the first couple paragraphs to please feel free to subtract up to .5 from the estimated cost comparisons. I actually went on to include an example of dodonna in a 4 activation fleet, effectively adding +5 to the flotilla in the example. This is why I offered detractors to subtract .5 from my estimates, purely to match that value of 5 in the provided example. In reality, it would cause a fluctuation of .3, at most.

I gotta disagree with that assertion. You're arguing about it costing too much to hunt a specific unit. You should use the whole cost of that specific unit.

Anyways, it's your argument. Just offering a suggestion I would feel makes it a stronger one.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

Good catch. Maybe they used the super force. The point still stands that under that logic, squadron commands should not have ranges, rendering boosted comms unnecessary and obsolete. One could also argue that a fortified, fixed position (Yavin Command Center) has hardware that would allow for a long ranged transmission. Accepting that as an explanation, we're still back at square one.

I'm really not trying to make a point. I'm fine with Flotillas as they are so I don't have a dog in the fight.

My interpretation of the range of squadron commands is more about gameplay mechanics than thematic mechanics.

Would you be ok buying a car for fifty thousand dollars if you knew for a fact someone bought that same car with the same options for twenty-five thousand dollars?

If thats a rhetorical question, I don't understand what point it makes.

If it's not rhetorical, I'm somewhat annoyed you didn't just make the follow up point to what would obviously be a "No" answer.

It was to push you towards accepting a mechanic at play, in this case the price, should be universally applied for the effect that it has.

Thats a pretty argumentative post, however I think some of these arguments operate on a wrong set of assumptions. Lets start with the first one: how to calculate cost imbalance.

Because an Admiral can apply his effect regardless of range to any ship, the lifeboat flotilla is effectively an 18-23 points investment. The Admiral is not factored into this because he's not a factor in the tactic of placing a cheap unit in a corner.

Thats a wrong assumption. One of the reasons of placing Admiral in a cheap unit is to spread the points across the fleet, so the loss of any ship is recoverable points-wise and there is no point sink that will be a primary attack target. So once admiral is on the flotilla it becomes a 50-60 points that can be gained from killing it (and it can be killed by a 44-points raider). So the whole talk about points imbalance doesn't really make sense from my perspective - as we're now talking about sending 50-60 points ship to kill 50-60 points and survive (as there is no chance for flotilla to kill it.

Now lets talk about flotilla killers (I assume Imperial ones)

1. Raider. Thats all it takes. There is no need to load anything on it, he'll get that flotilla. Maybe it'll take him 2-3 rounds but he'll get it.

2. Gladiator. A usual GSD loadout with Intel officer - poof. Dead flotilla in two rounds. It may be even a half-dead Demolisher going after that admiral after successful run on a ship.

3. Squadrons. Bossk + Zertik. Done. Bossk gets his free accuracy and keeps bombing.

4. A set of rogues that keeps going and going.

5. ...

Essentially I think that we're at a point in the cycle where usuing a lifeboat flotilla is riskier and riskier and we'll see a decline in the use of this strategy over a next few months.

As stated in my example, if you wish to include the cost of an admiral in the lifeboat, that's fine but it has to be done across the entire fleet since the admiral effects the entire fleet. In the provided example, I used Dodonna in a 4 activation fleet, effectively increasing the cost of the flotilla by +5. To reflect this increase, I offered detractors to remove .5 from my estimates.

The logic behind this is fairly simple. Upgrades factored into the cost of that ship effect only that ship (or allow it to manipulate the battle in some way). To assign the entire value of a card that affects your entire fleet to a single ship is misleading in the extreme.

1) It's stilla points imbalance and a unit that is effectively lost for the rest of the battle.

2) Will never return to the battle in time and an even higher points cost than my Raider example.

3) Purely fighter-dice are highly unreliable since the only thing that applies damage is actual hits, which is why I included Vader.

Perhaps.

Whoa whoa whoa. You can't try and apply the points across the entire fleet. That's not how this game works. Don't try it. Follow the RRG and FAQ if you want to create points like this. Everyone else plays by them. You have to as well.

Otherwise we can make all sorts of crazy arguments.

Oh sweet jesus enough.

They use a radio to communicate. Going to complain about radios in a game where we hyperspace?

Mareek Stele + Jendon for the floatilla hunter. Command them with your own Floatilla for great justice.

And keep posting. You are the main drum beater on the issue. Hopefully you'll get a holiday and we have peace in our time.

If they use a radio to communicate from across the map, why are squadron commands limited to long range (w/Boosted Comms)?

Stele + Jendon is still 21 + 20 points for a total of 41 and therefore 2.28 times more expensive than the flotilla itself. They also have no way to stop scatter so will take atleast 2 turns, making it doubtful they'd be able to return to the battle. What happens in your example when your opponent stops them with a single z-95?

This is my first post about this, I am not the main drum beater, and I have no holiday coming up.

Fantastic, helpful attitude, though. Truly in the spirit of the post. Well done.

You are a moron without comparison.

Jedon/Stele is the same almost the same cost as 20 and 18, cheapest boat.

You complain about life boats but say that jendon/marek are twice the cost...sure...OF A NON ADMIRAL BOAT FLOATILLA

Jedon attacks twice. Floatilla scatters twice. You kill it next round.

You shift the goal posts every time. Jedon/Stele will eat this magically conjured headhunter in one shot or avoid or its good for me that you have squadrons protecting the boat, makes you easier to table.

See how easy inventing anything you want to suit your argument is.

Not to mention floatillas make large ship lists awesome, or squadron screens, or repair fleets, or slicer tools/ecm or any number of ways to play.

No longer respondin to somebody who cleary is trolling and using every logical fallacy they can employ to drag tbe forum fown with them

Reported and i hope you are banned.

And this is how you fly in the face of the spirit of open debate and free discussion.

I lied. I like how you addressed 0 of what i said unlike what i did. Which is actually address points raised in a debate rather than grand standing and virtue signalling.

I'm not going to respond to posts that start with telling me how stupid I am. That will just lead to the last thread. Please feel free to continue displaying ignorance. You're not hurting anyone. If you want me to value your opinion, prove that you can respect mine even if you do not agree with it.

If you're incapable of basic communication, feel free to leave the discussion. No one is forcing you to be here.

You just had a locked thread. This is white noise not debate. Take the hint.

-edit- removed insult before your response, it was not warranted

Thats a pretty argumentative post, however I think some of these arguments operate on a wrong set of assumptions. Lets start with the first one: how to calculate cost imbalance.

Because an Admiral can apply his effect regardless of range to any ship, the lifeboat flotilla is effectively an 18-23 points investment. The Admiral is not factored into this because he's not a factor in the tactic of placing a cheap unit in a corner.

Thats a wrong assumption. One of the reasons of placing Admiral in a cheap unit is to spread the points across the fleet, so the loss of any ship is recoverable points-wise and there is no point sink that will be a primary attack target. So once admiral is on the flotilla it becomes a 50-60 points that can be gained from killing it (and it can be killed by a 44-points raider). So the whole talk about points imbalance doesn't really make sense from my perspective - as we're now talking about sending 50-60 points ship to kill 50-60 points and survive (as there is no chance for flotilla to kill it.

Now lets talk about flotilla killers (I assume Imperial ones)

1. Raider. Thats all it takes. There is no need to load anything on it, he'll get that flotilla. Maybe it'll take him 2-3 rounds but he'll get it.

2. Gladiator. A usual GSD loadout with Intel officer - poof. Dead flotilla in two rounds. It may be even a half-dead Demolisher going after that admiral after successful run on a ship.

3. Squadrons. Bossk + Zertik. Done. Bossk gets his free accuracy and keeps bombing.

4. A set of rogues that keeps going and going.

5. ...

Essentially I think that we're at a point in the cycle where usuing a lifeboat flotilla is riskier and riskier and we'll see a decline in the use of this strategy over a next few months.

As stated in my example, if you wish to include the cost of an admiral in the lifeboat, that's fine but it has to be done across the entire fleet since the admiral effects the entire fleet. In the provided example, I used Dodonna in a 4 activation fleet, effectively increasing the cost of the flotilla by +5. To reflect this increase, I offered detractors to remove .5 from my estimates.

The logic behind this is fairly simple. Upgrades factored into the cost of that ship effect only that ship (or allow it to manipulate the battle in some way). To assign the entire value of a card that affects your entire fleet to a single ship is misleading in the extreme.

1) It's stilla points imbalance and a unit that is effectively lost for the rest of the battle.

2) Will never return to the battle in time and an even higher points cost than my Raider example.

3) Purely fighter-dice are highly unreliable since the only thing that applies damage is actual hits, which is why I included Vader.

Perhaps.

Whoa whoa whoa. You can't try and apply the points across the entire fleet. That's not how this game works. Don't try it. Follow the RRG and FAQ if you want to create points like this. Everyone else plays by them. You have to as well.

Otherwise we can make all sorts of crazy arguments.

You can apply Admiral cost across the entire fleet because the Admiral is the only card in the game that affects the entire fleet. The RRG and FAQ refer to assigned Admiral cost under the guise of calculating poitns for the ship he was on when you destroyed it. Up until the point in which his is destroyed, because of the way in which he functions, his cost can be applied to the entire fleet.

Besides, once you factor in the fact that those forces sent to engage him will more than likely not return in time to have an impact on the battle, the points are closer to being balanced but still not close unless you factor ONLY the 3 most expensive admirals, which are more and more being replaced by lower cost admirals in the name of activations.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

Good catch. Maybe they used the super force. The point still stands that under that logic, squadron commands should not have ranges, rendering boosted comms unnecessary and obsolete. One could also argue that a fortified, fixed position (Yavin Command Center) has hardware that would allow for a long ranged transmission. Accepting that as an explanation, we're still back at square one.

I'm really not trying to make a point. I'm fine with Flotillas as they are so I don't have a dog in the fight.

My interpretation of the range of squadron commands is more about gameplay mechanics than thematic mechanics.

Would you be ok buying a car for fifty thousand dollars if you knew for a fact someone bought that same car with the same options for twenty-five thousand dollars?

If thats a rhetorical question, I don't understand what point it makes.

If it's not rhetorical, I'm somewhat annoyed you didn't just make the follow up point to what would obviously be a "No" answer.

It was to push you towards accepting a mechanic at play, in this case the price, should be universally applied for the effect that it has.

It didn't work I guess, because I don't see how that point was made. It may help to suggest that this might be because I didn't read your entire OP, because I'm fine with how flotillas work and I don't really have a dog in the fight.

You just had a locked thread. This is white noise not debate. Take the hint.

Perhaps. Why don't you scroll up and tally tones? Hint: you win.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

Good catch. Maybe they used the super force. The point still stands that under that logic, squadron commands should not have ranges, rendering boosted comms unnecessary and obsolete. One could also argue that a fortified, fixed position (Yavin Command Center) has hardware that would allow for a long ranged transmission. Accepting that as an explanation, we're still back at square one.

I'm really not trying to make a point. I'm fine with Flotillas as they are so I don't have a dog in the fight.

My interpretation of the range of squadron commands is more about gameplay mechanics than thematic mechanics.

Would you be ok buying a car for fifty thousand dollars if you knew for a fact someone bought that same car with the same options for twenty-five thousand dollars?

If thats a rhetorical question, I don't understand what point it makes.

If it's not rhetorical, I'm somewhat annoyed you didn't just make the follow up point to what would obviously be a "No" answer.

It was to push you towards accepting a mechanic at play, in this case the price, should be universally applied for the effect that it has.

It didn't work I guess, because I don't see how that point was made. It may help to suggest that this might be because I didn't read your entire OP, because I'm fine with how flotillas work and I don't really have a dog in the fight.

Then you have contributed all you can to the discussion and are free to leave. Take it easy.

You just had a locked thread. This is white noise not debate. Take the hint.

I appreciate you giving me that permission? Lol. I didn't feel obligated to stay. You were asking me direct questions so I was trying to be polite and answer them.

Regarding Flotillas... H9s can be a hard counter to their defensive stratgies. H9s aren't bad for ships that have them in always locking down other defense tokens as well. If I knew I'm going up against massed flotillas I'd be encouraged to take them, especially if there are no other Turbolasers I'd like more. It's just I have more cause for enemy fighters...

No, my problem with Flotillas is how they enable cheap activation passes . For 18 points the Rebels can continue to skip their "turn" until optimal strike time, where they unleash their best shot. It could be an MC80 opening up to an MC30 starting its run to Yavaris moving with Flight Coordination Teams and a flight commander then double-tapping their bombers. Rebel ships are cheaper as a whole, and they use smaller ships, making this easier when stacked against the Empire.

That has my concern, more than Admiral sedans, because it creates an uphill struggle for bigger ships that cannot activate properly when they want to. I'd like to see that addressed somehow.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

"Squad leaders, we picked up a new group of signals: enemy fighters headed your way"

also, we don't really know what squadron commands "are"

I doubt it is simply pointing at something you want dead and letting the ships sick 'em

it could be the ship actually coordinating and acting in tandem with said squadrons (which makes sense as they essentially share an activation ), either by providing supporting fire or logistics or w.e which can only be accurately done while at certain range

this is where we use our god given imaginations, or (failing that) recognize that the interesting gameplay interactions between squads and ships far outweigh any petty thematic hiccups we may have

though, in the case of admirals,they don't necessarily have to relay orders to the ships. Example, the **** did motti ever do? He got choked by vader...what an admiral!

no, we've long ago parsed that Motti gives ships "extra hull" by basically forcing the crew to keep plugging away long after they would've normally abandoned ship

either through sheer overconfident hubris or typical imperial view of their subordinates as expendable assets, motti keeps barely kept-together shambles of ships in the fight for just that little bit longer

but really, would that really be Motti on a ship, escorted by a paltry fleet of 400 points Armada? Or would it be that the flagship has a commander who is a representative of the man, who would be quick to report any "Subpar" performances from the fleet to the big man himself?

theme always takes a backseat to gameplay, because this is a game , but if you don't limit yourself to surface level imagination you can explain just about anything

/Lockthread....

Oh sweet jesus enough.

They use a radio to communicate. Going to complain about radios in a game where we hyperspace?

Mareek Stele + Jendon for the floatilla hunter. Command them with your own Floatilla for great justice.

And keep posting. You are the main drum beater on the issue. Hopefully you'll get a holiday and we have peace in our time.

So once again? I can't see anything he's posted but I hope he keeps it Civil this time. Just no one push him too far and see where it goes. Not that anyone at FFG is going to listen to Rule Changes that are suggested but maybe some tactical advice might be gathered here.

All of the above are examples of confrontational posts made in the spirit of causing an argument by fanning dead flames. All of which are illustrations of what "the locked thread" was about. These do not contribute anything, are not respectful, or polite.

This rudeness.... this confrontational nonsense is exactly what I responded to before. This is arguing for arguments sake.

Not trying to regenerate the previous thread and I'm sorry for doing my part in the derailment. The fact that two of them keep coming back without responses should tell you everything about their character, especially since one has ignored me and can't even read the original post....and yet is here....trying to derail the conversation.

Sure, I lost my temper before, but this is just....well, it's just sad to be perfectly honest.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

The Yavin Bomber Command Center (the art for the card, after all) was located in a hardened fortification on a planet on the other side of a line of obstacle. They also didn't direct the battle, they watched it unfold. There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

Your last sentence makes me question if you read the entire explanation or just enough to type a response. Please clarify.

Not only did they speak to Luke, they detected Black Squadron before the Xwings did and warned them about fighters incoming.

I for one don't care, but you will NEVER find my Admiral in a flotilla. He's gonna be in an ISD, were he belongs.

You can apply Admiral cost across the entire fleet because the Admiral is the only card in the game that affects the entire fleet. The RRG and FAQ refer to assigned Admiral cost under the guise of calculating poitns for the ship he was on when you destroyed it. Up until the point in which his is destroyed, because of the way in which he functions, his cost can be applied to the entire fleet.

But the only cost we're (or at least I'm) interested in is the opportunity cost: how many points will I gain by killing that ship. For me sending 50-60 point ship to get 50 points AND guarantee its survival is a good trade even if this ship won't accomplish anything else in this game.

I appreciate you giving me that permission? Lol. I didn't feel obligated to stay. You were asking me direct questions so I was trying to be polite and answer them.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

"Squad leaders, we picked up a new group of signals: enemy fighters headed your way"

Again, a hardened command center would likely have hardware for long range communications. That said, it still doesn't explain how Admirals have this magical, map-wide influence yet squadrons have to be within close-medium range for commands...long range, at best.

You just had a locked thread. This is white noise not debate. Take the hint.

God I'm playing the Devil's Advocate. Hey let's just see where this goes but still stand by your points. If there's going to be a discussion on this let's talk about ways to use tactics to address this issue.

More pompous superiority from he-who-ignores.

I appreciate you giving me that permission? Lol. I didn't feel obligated to stay. You were asking me direct questions so I was trying to be polite and answer them.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

"Squad leaders, we picked up a new group of signals: enemy fighters headed your way"

Again, a hardened command center would likely have hardware for long range communications. That said, it still doesn't explain how Admirals have this magical, map-wide influence yet squadrons have to be within close-medium range for commands...long range, at best.

Say.... didn't Palpatine contact Vader in an asteroid field over by Hoth? And Palpatine was probably very far away....

Honestly there are so many examples of FTL communication in Star Wars your point is moot.

I appreciate you giving me that permission? Lol. I didn't feel obligated to stay. You were asking me direct questions so I was trying to be polite and answer them.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

"Squad leaders, we picked up a new group of signals: enemy fighters headed your way"

Again, a hardened command center would likely have hardware for long range communications. That said, it still doesn't explain how Admirals have this magical, map-wide influence yet squadrons have to be within close-medium range for commands...long range, at best.

Is the explanation not just that they are Admirals and fill a specific function in the game outside of the rest of the upgrades and ships? I mean, again, I don't really feel like there's necessarily supposed to be a balanced sort of theme to them. Maybe they are just a mechanical tool of the game?

And Ackbar commanded the fleet over Endor when he told Madine to focus fire on the SSD.