Let's give this one last try, yea? If we can check the preconceptions about the discussion and each other, we might be able to figure out viable suggestions as a community. This requires neither party put a line in the proverbial sand and refuse to budge. The skinny of it is, if flotillas weren't a problem/issue/point of contention, they wouldn't come up all the time.

Allow me to preface this discussion with this. I am not for or against flotillas as they are. I understand the tactic to use them as lifeboats (the primary point of discussion) and have less than no problems with them in a supporting role utilizing upgrades. I use them, I even look for ways to make them more effective.

I can kill them....but that is part of the problem.

For this initial discussion, I'm going to use a Rebel fleet vs an Imperial fleet, just for examples and for ease of differentiating mechanics. The Rebel flagship is a flotilla that has chosen to separate itself from the fleet in a lifeboat role. It's assumed it is only the flotilla and the Admiral, no upgrades, no title.

First, let's remember the rest of the game. Everything has ranges. Everything has measurements. Everything has restrictions.

Except Admiral abilities.

The primary point of contention in the flotilla lifeboat strategy (for me) : How can it be viable for an Admiral to command a fleet from 3 measurement tools away in a corner when squadron commands are, at best, close-long range only (without use of Relay)? That's a break down in not only thematic quality but a violation of existing game mechanics and restrictions.

Moving on, let's talk about what defines the concept of "balance", which is counter-play. A lifeboat flotilla introduces an imbalance in counter-play and is possibly the only thing in Armada that does. There's a difference between "hard to play against", like the Demolisher, and counter-play. In the case of the Demolisher, this defines player skill cap and are another discussion entirely. In the following post, I'm going to attempt to illustrate how lifeboat flotillas introduce an imbalance by not having efficient or effective counter play when the game as a whole is considered.

The imbalance of lifeboat flotillas in a corner is defined by points values. Anyone can send a Raider to kill a flotilla. Anyone can send a couple squadrons (one to try and force the scatter, the other to take advantage of it). Let's label the Raider option 1 and the squadrons option 2.

Preface :

Because an Admiral can apply his effect regardless of range to any ship, the lifeboat flotilla is effectively an 18-23 points investment. The Admiral is not factored into this because he's not a factor in the tactic of placing a cheap unit in a corner. He adds nothing to that specific ship because he factors into the cost of the fleet since he affects the entire force. If you'd like to include the cost of the fleet admiral into this discussion, the viable way to calculate his cost is on a per-fleet list basis. In order to calculate his cost for that specific lifeboat flotilla, you'd have to average his cost per ship. For simplicity sake, let's call the Admiral Dodonna in a 4 activation fleet. He effectively increases the cost of that lifeboat flotilla but +5. Because this increase in cost is on a per-fleet basis, feel free to adjust any of the following effective counter-play costs by -.5.

Option One: Ship

In order to counter it with option one, you have to send a ship out to kill it. This ship not only\ has to be capable of killing the flotilla,but it must also be fast enough to try and then turn and get back to the main battle. To this point, it wouldn't be relevant if turns were not limited. Since we're talking about traveling across the map, killing a ship, and returning, turn count is a huge factor in this imbalance discussion so please keep it in the back of your mind.

Given that a base Raider is 44-48 points, we're already talking about a cost imbalance of x2.4 - x2.67 (44 and 48 divided by 18).

Now let's talk about what it takes on that Raider in order to achieve it's mission. Sensor Team to kill the scatter? That's another 5 points, raising the imbalance to x2.7-x2.9.

A cheaper option might be Ordnance Experts, but what if you have 2 bad rolls? That's x2.67-x2.89 more points invested on a gamble.

Ok, so maybe we try Advanced Proton Torpedoes? That's the same investment as Sensor Teams without the ability to stop Scatter so x2.7-x2.9 more points invested on the gamble you'll be able to double arc (probably needed twice).

So now we need to factor in how to build the Raider to guarentee a kill against that lifeboat flotilla while still remaining viable for other engagements incase they don't even have a lifeboat.

To me, that would be Sensor Team and Advanced Proton Torpedoes. So now we're at 44 or 48 + 5 + 5 = x3 or x3.2 more points invested in order to achieve reasonable counter-play with a ship.

This is entirely based on closing to close range so that the flotilla cannot use Evade, meaning that a single ship must close to close range and be an investment of x2.7 - x3.2 more points to efficiently kill an 18 point flotilla. That is imbalance because of the skewed cost of counter-play.

So let's take a look at option 2.

Option 2: Squadrons

So this is really open to debate because of the sheer amount of squadrons available. Because of this, we're going to have to establish a few things. How many squadrons are required to kill the flotilla? Should they include a bomber? Should they include a Relay (more on that in a moment)? Should they all be Rogues so they can move and shoot when they finally close the gap? This Option is fairly open to healthy debate and I hopefully look forward to it.

Universally, speed and kill potential are still important factors to consider along with points investment. That said, I'm going to start it now.

Option A: Invest in enough cheap fighters to just split them from the main force. To this end, one must consider these fighters will be out of range of squadron commands. Because of this, the earliest these fights would be able to fire a shot is turn 3 or 4 since they are out of command range and do not have rogue. That's only if the flotilla does not move and is completely stationary. To this end, let's agree this is not a viable option. The reasoning behind this is effectiveness. We're talking about being forced to send 3+ squadrons across the map to engage a ship that can scatter. Unless we're using TIE Phantoms (3x14 = 42 or x2.3 more points) for their 2 red anti-ship batteries, or x4 TIE Interceptors for their speed 5 and swarm rerolls (4x11 = 44 or x2.4 as many points), or x3 TIE Advanced for their black dice (3x12 = 36 or x2 as many points) then this option is not an option at all and still more costly than the flotilla. You'd have to include Intel or risk your opponent sending a single squadron over to block a disproportionately large amount of your fighters, increasing the investment by a minimum of 12, making the over all cost 2.67 to 3.1 more than the flotilla with fighter squadron based blue and black dice....

Option B: Invest in enough bombers to efficiently kill the flotilla. For this we have the choice between TIE Bombers or TIE Defenders since we're not talking about Rogue or Aces (yet). So how many would it take to effectively kill a Flotilla? Considering we need to include forcing atleast 1 Scatter, let's assume 4 TIE Bombers and 3 TIE Defenders, plus the Intel. So we're at 9x4 = 36 (x2) for Bombers, 16x3 = 48 (2.67) for Defenders. Including the Intel ship, thats a range of x2.67 - x3.3 and thats on singluar blue and black dice.

Option C: Rogues. The Empire has access to generic Rogue units so let's try and use them to effectively kill a flotilla in a reasonable amount of time. What immediately jumps to my mind is 3 Firesprays since they are Rogue and Bombers....but they're speed three so you'd effectively be throwing those points away since they'd never return....so thats 18x3 = 54 + 12 (Intel) = 66 = 3.67 more points invested on a one-way trip to kill a flotilla. We could use 3 Aggressors for a slightly less costly options but we're right back to not having the bomber tag. 16x3 = 48 + 12 = 60 or 3.3 times as many points. So who do we send? The Aces?

Option D: Aces. The first one that comes to mind is Darth Vader because he pretty much has the bomber tag against everything. You'd have to send something with him to try and force atleast 1 Scatter, as well as Intel. So let's go with the absolute, cheapest option? Well, TIE Fighters aren't going to proc a scatter. Niether are any fighters, to be honest. Will generic bombers? So what can we partner Vader up with to get rid of that scatter? My vote goes to the Zertik/Bossk Combo. So Vader, Zertik, Bossk, and a Jumpmaster.....21+15+23+12 = the most expensive option at 71 points or 3.9 times as many points as the 18 point flotilla.

Option E: Split your entire fighter wing and send a Relay (or two) with a massive gaggle of cheap fighters to swoop over, try and 1 turn the flotilla, and rush back. I'm not even going to theorycraft this entry because it's not viable due to the fact it would effectively have you without your squadrons for 4 or 5 turns, maybe the entire game.

None of the above options are balanced counter-play to a lifeboat flotilla, which mathematically disproves flotilla balance when used as a lifeboat.

Possible Solutions

Short of changing how flotillas work entirely, these are possible solutions. Some are mine, some are not, and they're all mixed together. If you see a solution you proposed, full credit goes to you with my apologies for not citing you. In no particular order:

Introduce an upgrade card for the offensive slot that limits the ability of ships to be effected by Admiral abilities unless that Admiral is within long range of of ships within long range of the ship with it equiped. This would preserve flotillas being in the back and protected but keep them within 1 range ruler of friendly ships with a maximum of within 2 range rules of the opposing ship with this upgrade equiped. Modification: 10 points.

Introduce an upgrade card for the Fleet Support slot that extends an Admirals range to encompass the entire map (would require instating the rule that Admiral abilities have a range). Modification: 8 points.

Release an update that states flotillas cannot be flagships, thereby eliminating the skewed points imbalance. This would still allow players who choose to separate their admiral the freedom to do so but at a substantially higher points investment, thereby balancing the option of engaging the flagship with the impact and cost of investing in doing so. Even if the cost of pursuing the flagship increases, one must still factor in the fact that any forces that separate from the opposing fleet are effectively lost for the rest of the battle.

Darlorian: A Flotilla cannot be a Flagship unless the entirety of the fleet consists of Flotillas

Baltanok: Use an asset whose value has already been paid.

Ouzel: Use a fast ship equip with Rapid Launch Bays.

Please feel free to politely, respectful, and tactfully discuss this here. You have my word that I will do the same.

I'm aware the other options is to effectively ignore the flotilla and not plan to kill it. This is the only point in this article where the price of the fleet Admiral is factor in. Why? Because it removes the opponents ability to eliminate a contributing factor of a fleet. By being forced into ignoring a lifeboat flotilla in a corner, the lifeboating player has less points "at risk" than someone not utilizing this strategy, effectively giving them a cost of lifeboat + admiral points advantage of 38-56 (flotilla 18 + Dodonna 20 - flotilla 18 + Ackbar 38) since those points are not at risk and their protection has no cost effective counter-play.

I agree with All, except the with following added Caveat:

A Flotilla cannot be a Flagship unless the entirety of the fleet consists of Flotillas

One cost of the lifeboat strategy that I see is that it costs a prime deployment.

If you want to drop it outside the battle, you have to deploy it late or last, which is the deployment that I like to use for my heavy hitters.

If you drop the lifeboat early, then I just set my fleet up where it can get to the lifeboat.

But I don't see many lifeboats, so I don't have much experience fighting them. Usually, my opponents put their flotillas as trailers or flankers to use slicers, commsnet, or BCC.

/Lockthread....

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle. There is a cost there that is being ignored

Oh sweet jesus enough.

They use a radio to communicate. Going to complain about radios in a game where we hyperspace?

Mareek Stele + Jendon for the floatilla hunter. Command them with your own Floatilla for great justice.

And keep posting. You are the main drum beater on the issue. Hopefully you'll get a holiday and we have peace in our time.

One cost of the lifeboat strategy that I see is that it costs a prime deployment.

If you want to drop it outside the battle, you have to deploy it late or last, which is the deployment that I like to use for my heavy hitters.

If you drop the lifeboat early, then I just set my fleet up where it can get to the lifeboat.

But I don't see many lifeboats, so I don't have much experience fighting them. Usually, my opponents put their flotillas as trailers or flankers to use slicers, commsnet, or BCC.

I've felt this before. Do I use Sato as deployment advantage but give away where he will be? Or do I give up deployment advantage for Paragon?

I think this decision is what makes this balanced.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

The Yavin Bomber Command Center (the art for the card, after all) was located in a hardened fortification on a planet on the other side of a line of obstacle. They also didn't direct the battle, they watched it unfold. There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

Your last sentence makes me question if you read the entire explanation or just enough to type a response. Please clarify.

One cost of the lifeboat strategy that I see is that it costs a prime deployment.

If you want to drop it outside the battle, you have to deploy it late or last, which is the deployment that I like to use for my heavy hitters.

If you drop the lifeboat early, then I just set my fleet up where it can get to the lifeboat.

But I don't see many lifeboats, so I don't have much experience fighting them. Usually, my opponents put their flotillas as trailers or flankers to use slicers, commsnet, or BCC.

I've felt this before. Do I use Sato as deployment advantage but give away where he will be? Or do I give up deployment advantage for Paragon?

I think this decision is what makes this balanced.

Somewhat agree to that last point until you factor in the relative cost of ignoring the flotilla, which swings it back towards imbalance.

Oh sweet jesus enough.

They use a radio to communicate. Going to complain about radios in a game where we hyperspace?

Mareek Stele + Jendon for the floatilla hunter. Command them with your own Floatilla for great justice.

And keep posting. You are the main drum beater on the issue. Hopefully you'll get a holiday and we have peace in our time.

If they use a radio to communicate from across the map, why are squadron commands limited to long range (w/Boosted Comms)?

Stele + Jendon is still 21 + 20 points for a total of 41 and therefore 2.28 times more expensive than the flotilla itself. They also have no way to stop scatter so will take atleast 2 turns, making it doubtful they'd be able to return to the battle. What happens in your example when your opponent stops them with a single z-95?

This is my first post about this, I am not the main drum beater, and I have no holiday coming up.

Fantastic, helpful attitude, though. Truly in the spirit of the post. Well done.

So once again? I can't see anything he's posted but I hope he keeps it Civil this time. Just no one push him too far and see where it goes. Not that anyone at FFG is going to listen to Rule Changes that are suggested but maybe some tactical advice might be gathered here.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

So once again? I can't see anything he's posted but I hope he keeps it Civil this time. Just no one push him too far and see where it goes. Not that anyone at FFG is going to listen to Rule Changes that are suggested but maybe some tactical advice might be gathered here.

At the moment its civil.

Keep out

So once again? I can't see anything he's posted but I hope he keeps it Civil this time. Just no one push him too far and see where it goes. Not that anyone at FFG is going to listen to Rule Changes that are suggested but maybe some tactical advice might be gathered here.

Speaks for itself. Maybe someone will quote the whole thing so he can catch himself up.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

Good catch. Maybe they used the super force. The point still stands that under that logic, squadron commands should not have ranges, rendering boosted comms unnecessary and obsolete. One could also argue that a fortified, fixed position (Yavin Command Center) has hardware that would allow for a long ranged transmission. Accepting that as an explanation, we're still back at square one.

I have no problem with flotillas as a chariot and generally think that overall flotillas have been great for the game.

I'd like you to consider in your math about efficiency of hunting down a lifeboat that it is misleading to not also include the cost of the Admiral.

The cheapest possible lifeboat would be 38 points, not 18. The could also cost as much as 61 points with no other upgrades.

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

Good catch. Maybe they used the super force. The point still stands that under that logic, squadron commands should not have ranges, rendering boosted comms unnecessary and obsolete. One could also argue that a fortified, fixed position (Yavin Command Center) has hardware that would allow for a long ranged transmission. Accepting that as an explanation, we're still back at square one.

I'm really not trying to make a point. I'm fine with Flotillas as they are so I don't have a dog in the fight.

My interpretation of the range of squadron commands is more about gameplay mechanics than thematic mechanics.

Oh sweet jesus enough.

They use a radio to communicate. Going to complain about radios in a game where we hyperspace?

Mareek Stele + Jendon for the floatilla hunter. Command them with your own Floatilla for great justice.

And keep posting. You are the main drum beater on the issue. Hopefully you'll get a holiday and we have peace in our time.

If they use a radio to communicate from across the map, why are squadron commands limited to long range (w/Boosted Comms)?

Stele + Jendon is still 21 + 20 points for a total of 41 and therefore 2.28 times more expensive than the flotilla itself. They also have no way to stop scatter so will take atleast 2 turns, making it doubtful they'd be able to return to the battle. What happens in your example when your opponent stops them with a single z-95?

This is my first post about this, I am not the main drum beater, and I have no holiday coming up.

Fantastic, helpful attitude, though. Truly in the spirit of the post. Well done.

Jedon/Stele is the same almost the same cost as 20 and 18, cheapest boat.

You complain about life boats but say that jendon/marek are twice the cost...sure...OF A NON ADMIRAL BOAT FLOATILLA. Nice evasion.

Jedon attacks twice. Floatilla scatters twice. You kill it next round.

You shift the goal posts every time. Jedon/Stele will eat this magically conjured headhunter in one shot or avoid or its good for me that you have squadrons protecting the boat, makes you easier to table.

See how easy inventing anything you want to suit your argument is.

Not to mention floatillas make large ship lists awesome, or squadron screens, or repair fleets, or slicer tools/ecm or any number of ways to play.

No longer respondin to somebody who cleary is trolling and using every logical fallacy they can employ to drag tbe forum fown with them

Reported and i hope you are banned.

I have no problem with flotillas as a chariot and generally think that overall flotillas have been great for the game.

I'd like you to consider in your math about efficiency of hunting down a lifeboat that it is misleading to not also include the cost of the Admiral.

The cheapest possible lifeboat would be 38 points, not 18. The could also cost as much as 61 points with no other upgrades.

I welcomed factoring in the commander but since it effects the entire fleet, it's more misleading to factor him into the cost of the flotilla, which is why I stated in the first couple paragraphs to please feel free to subtract up to .5 from the estimated cost comparisons. I actually went on to include an example of dodonna in a 4 activation fleet, effectively adding +5 to the flotilla in the example. This is why I offered detractors to subtract .5 from my estimates, purely to match that value of 5 in the provided example. In reality, it would cause a fluctuation of .3, at most.

So once again? I can't see anything he's posted but I hope he keeps it Civil this time. Just no one push him too far and see where it goes. Not that anyone at FFG is going to listen to Rule Changes that are suggested but maybe some tactical advice might be gathered here.

At the moment its civil.

Keep out

not sure how it isn't thematic

sure, we see commanders on star destroyers and such, but we also have things like the rebels in a command center on Yavin or the resistance assaulting Star Killer while on a planet

actually seems smarter to have your commanding officer as far removed from the battle as possible, monitoring it with whatever equipment they have

and if the rebels can keep track of the fight on the deathstar from Yavin, some berk in a floatilla shouldn't have any problem setting up some kind of comms and systems relay

also the cost preface is kinda bunk. Points are points, no matter how they allocate value when you kill something you get all the points on it. So doesn't matter if you send a raider or whatever to eat a flagship floatilla, you're still getting near a raider's worth in killing it.

you could also simply ignore the floatilla as it is not contributing a body nor squadron commands to the battle

There was not a single transmission from Yavin to the fighters, more than likely because they exited communications range.

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer."

Good catch. Maybe they used the super force. The point still stands that under that logic, squadron commands should not have ranges, rendering boosted comms unnecessary and obsolete. One could also argue that a fortified, fixed position (Yavin Command Center) has hardware that would allow for a long ranged transmission. Accepting that as an explanation, we're still back at square one.

I'm really not trying to make a point. I'm fine with Flotillas as they are so I don't have a dog in the fight.

My interpretation of the range of squadron commands is more about gameplay mechanics than thematic mechanics.

Would you be ok buying a car for fifty thousand dollars if you knew for a fact someone bought that same car with the same options for twenty-five thousand dollars?

So once again? I can't see anything he's posted but I hope he keeps it Civil this time. Just no one push him too far and see where it goes. Not that anyone at FFG is going to listen to Rule Changes that are suggested but maybe some tactical advice might be gathered here.

At the moment its civil.

Keep out

Dont worry I'm done with all that and I can't see anything he says. I am more interested in seeing what Tactical advice will be talked about. That has always been my only real concern on this subject.

And yet, here he is, trying to act e-tough. And for what reason? Probably not to prove any point I've made about his character but that's exactly what's happening here.

Thats a pretty argumentative post, however I think some of these arguments operate on a wrong set of assumptions. Lets start with the first one: how to calculate cost imbalance.

Because an Admiral can apply his effect regardless of range to any ship, the lifeboat flotilla is effectively an 18-23 points investment. The Admiral is not factored into this because he's not a factor in the tactic of placing a cheap unit in a corner.

Thats a wrong assumption. One of the reasons of placing Admiral in a cheap unit is to spread the points across the fleet, so the loss of any ship is recoverable points-wise and there is no point sink that will be a primary attack target. So once admiral is on the flotilla it becomes a 50-60 points that can be gained from killing it (and it can be killed by a 44-points raider). So the whole talk about points imbalance doesn't really make sense from my perspective - as we're now talking about sending 50-60 points ship to kill 50-60 points and survive (as there is no chance for flotilla to kill it.


Now lets talk about flotilla killers (I assume Imperial ones)
1. Raider. Thats all it takes. There is no need to load anything on it, he'll get that flotilla. Maybe it'll take him 2-3 rounds but he'll get it.
2. Gladiator. A usual GSD loadout with Intel officer - poof. Dead flotilla in two rounds. It may be even a half-dead Demolisher going after that admiral after successful run on a ship.
3. Squadrons. Bossk + Zertik. Done. Bossk gets his free accuracy and keeps bombing.
4. A set of rogues that keeps going and going.
5. ...

Essentially I think that we're at a point in the cycle where usuing a lifeboat flotilla is riskier and riskier and we'll see a decline in the use of this strategy over a next few months.

Oh sweet jesus enough.

They use a radio to communicate. Going to complain about radios in a game where we hyperspace?

Mareek Stele + Jendon for the floatilla hunter. Command them with your own Floatilla for great justice.

And keep posting. You are the main drum beater on the issue. Hopefully you'll get a holiday and we have peace in our time.

If they use a radio to communicate from across the map, why are squadron commands limited to long range (w/Boosted Comms)?

Stele + Jendon is still 21 + 20 points for a total of 41 and therefore 2.28 times more expensive than the flotilla itself. They also have no way to stop scatter so will take atleast 2 turns, making it doubtful they'd be able to return to the battle. What happens in your example when your opponent stops them with a single z-95?

This is my first post about this, I am not the main drum beater, and I have no holiday coming up.

Fantastic, helpful attitude, though. Truly in the spirit of the post. Well done.

You are a moron without comparison.

Jedon/Stele is the same almost the same cost as 20 and 18, cheapest boat.

You complain about life boats but say that jendon/marek are twice the cost...sure...OF A NON ADMIRAL BOAT FLOATILLA

Jedon attacks twice. Floatilla scatters twice. You kill it next round.

You shift the goal posts every time. Jedon/Stele will eat this magically conjured headhunter in one shot or avoid or its good for me that you have squadrons protecting the boat, makes you easier to table.

See how easy inventing anything you want to suit your argument is.

Not to mention floatillas make large ship lists awesome, or squadron screens, or repair fleets, or slicer tools/ecm or any number of ways to play.

No longer respondin to somebody who cleary is trolling and using every logical fallacy they can employ to drag tbe forum fown with them

Reported and i hope you are banned.

And this is how you fly in the face of the spirit of open debate and free discussion.