Hi All,

Wasn't sure where to post this so I figured someone would point me in the right direction.

There is a tournament coming up where the Organizer uses the following house rules: All range Measurements must be from cardboard to cardboard. He once saw a malformed based and this is a rule he always uses. This is annoying to me because he doesn't count nubs and mines or bombs as well as any abilities which need to be measured are not as effective.

Is he allowed to do this since he is running the tournament? If not who can I contact about this for backup?

Thanks,

eagletsi

No, he's not. FFG tournaments should follow the FFG rules, certainly at store champ level and above.

Seasonal kits have a little more freedom, but should still follow the base game rules.

It there's a TO who's breaking rules to this extent, you can probably contact FFG OP, but you won't make yourself popular with him by doing so, just to warn you...

No worries. I'm already not popular with him due to bomb rules with cluster change.

Have you asked him directly about this?

Are there other players who feel the same way that you do that would be willing to discuss with him?

The main reason that this is a bad ruling (besides simply not following the established rules) is that it makes your tournaments inconsistent with others.

If your players go to a bigger tournament and it adversely affects their gameplay, it's not good for them and might discourage future play at his events.

The malformed based should have been kicked out by him instead of changing the rule to what he thought was right.

If it's an official FFG tournament then he doesn't have the authority to change any of the rules. At all.

Have you asked him directly about this?

Are there other players who feel the same way that you do that would be willing to discuss with him?

The main reason that this is a bad ruling (besides simply not following the established rules) is that it makes your tournaments inconsistent with others.

If your players go to a bigger tournament and it adversely affects their gameplay, it's not good for them and might discourage future play at his events.

The malformed based should have been kicked out by him instead of changing the rule to what he thought was right.

Yes I have asked him and he is very headstrong on this. Most of the other players just let it go, some are angry but are not sure to do about it. I come from a different state and have played it differently previously. Looking for some official channel to make my point rather then argue with him every time.

Who is FFG OP?

Make like Adel Dazeem and Let It Go. It's just not worth the hassle.

the FFG Ruels Reference is clear on Bases (as they have an actual products released called BASES) in the firing arc rules reference "a ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its BASE falls inside the area formed by extending the firing arc lines" with that i would include the nubs as being the base as well (unless someone does want to contradict me with actual rules as i'm working so cant really look into it too much)

Regarding bombs, the rules also state that the Nubs on bombs count (found that out last night my to my opponents dismay when i ioned all but 1 of his ships in a turn)

Have you asked him directly about this?

Are there other players who feel the same way that you do that would be willing to discuss with him?

The main reason that this is a bad ruling (besides simply not following the established rules) is that it makes your tournaments inconsistent with others.

If your players go to a bigger tournament and it adversely affects their gameplay, it's not good for them and might discourage future play at his events.

The malformed based should have been kicked out by him instead of changing the rule to what he thought was right.

Yes I have asked him and he is very headstrong on this. Most of the other players just let it go, some are angry but are not sure to do about it. I come from a different state and have played it differently previously. Looking for some official channel to make my point rather then argue with him every time.

Who is FFG OP?

Organized play. Fairly sure the website has some way to email them.

I know he rules state it, and I have even showed it to him. He doesn't care. So that's why I need some FFG guidance on this

the FFG Ruels Reference is clear on Bases (as they have an actual products released called BASES) in the firing arc rules reference "a ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its BASE falls inside the area formed by extending the firing arc lines" with that i would include the nubs as being the base as well (unless someone does want to contradict me with actual rules as i'm working so cant really look into it too much)

Regarding bombs, the rules also state that the Nubs on bombs count (found that out last night my to my opponents dismay when i ioned all but 1 of his ships in a turn)

Nubs don't count for range checking.

the FFG Ruels Reference is clear on Bases (as they have an actual products released called BASES) in the firing arc rules reference "a ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its BASE falls inside the area formed by extending the firing arc lines" with that i would include the nubs as being the base as well (unless someone does want to contradict me with actual rules as i'm working so cant really look into it too much)

Regarding bombs, the rules also state that the Nubs on bombs count (found that out last night my to my opponents dismay when i ioned all but 1 of his ships in a turn)

Nubs don't count for range checking.

But do they count as part of the base (i.e in arc or not with line going over nubs) with range i always go to flat plastic, if my range 1 ruler just catches nubs then its range 2 for me.

the FFG Ruels Reference is clear on Bases (as they have an actual products released called BASES) in the firing arc rules reference "a ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its BASE falls inside the area formed by extending the firing arc lines" with that i would include the nubs as being the base as well (unless someone does want to contradict me with actual rules as i'm working so cant really look into it too much)

Regarding bombs, the rules also state that the Nubs on bombs count (found that out last night my to my opponents dismay when i ioned all but 1 of his ships in a turn)

Nubs don't count for range checking.

But do they count as part of the base (i.e in arc or not with line going over nubs) with range i always go to flat plastic, if my range 1 ruler just catches nubs then its range 2 for me.

They are part of the base for bumping but not when it concerns checking range for attack. That is in the rules.

You might email FFG and explain the situation. If he's the store owner and doing this - they might send him something to encourage him to change.

Not sure if that will happen, but in the meantime you have decide if you want to keep going to his events or not.

If you're like me, you have limited choices on where to play, so that can be tough.

I have some friends a few hours away with 1 game store in town and the owner does little to help them play in the way of making extra room in the store and setting aside some gaming time for them. One of the guys is looking at clearing space in the bonus room at his house so they can play more regularly.

the FFG Ruels Reference is clear on Bases (as they have an actual products released called BASES) in the firing arc rules reference "a ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its BASE falls inside the area formed by extending the firing arc lines" with that i would include the nubs as being the base as well (unless someone does want to contradict me with actual rules as i'm working so cant really look into it too much)

Regarding bombs, the rules also state that the Nubs on bombs count (found that out last night my to my opponents dismay when i ioned all but 1 of his ships in a turn)

Nubs don't count for range checking.

The nubs *on the bomb token* count for whether you're in range of the bomb token.

If this is a store championship, he has to use the current rules set, FAQ, and Tourney Regulations.

But ANY tournament less than that (even if using FFG prize support kit) ... he can use any rules he wants. You can play Mario Kart with FFG prize kit and FFG OP is probably not going to bother with him. ALTHOUGH if they get enough complaints they could lose the ability to have a Store Championship there in the future.

It's worth contacting FFG OP if it really bothers you, but I would simply go play somewhere else. Talk to the store owner and tell him that you are taking your money to a different store if this person is not going to play Xwing using the current rules/FAQ.

Agreed, but there is not many other stores to go to in my area. Also several of our out of towners have stopped coming to any tournaments because of this rule and his stuffy attitude about other rules he uses.

I find ironic that he uses that method because of malformed bases. I'm no expert, but I feel like malformed cardboard is much more likely…

So one malformed base and he changes the game's rules, versus I don't know, replacing that one base?

Is he a store employee? If not, bring this to the attention of the store. Annoying the player base is the last thing a store wants to do.

So one malformed base and he changes the game's rules, versus I don't know, replacing that one base?

I'd still like to hear wether it is a seasonal kit or store championship kit we are talking about. With the former you can't do anything but not come and encourage others who don't like this (baseless, completely ridiculous) ruling to do the same, all of you stating why. Otherwise do drop FFG an email.

I'll firstly second the sentiment that the cardboard rule is stupid. While it doesn't inherently break the game, it does change tactics a bit (flying side-on to an enemy ship to dodge a shot becomes slightly better). Because it's so inconsistent with other tournaments it'll mess with your player base when they compete elsewhere.

As for ways to solve it here's another one:

You've mentioned that several other players are disgruntled by this guy. If you collectively go to the store manager (even if the guy is the store manager) and tell them you're going elsewhere if the house rule doesn't get revoked, that's a much more effective boycott than just one person going elsewhere. It's certainly more likely to get results, and it comes without the pressure of sticking your neck out alone.

I'd still like to hear wether it is a seasonal kit or store championship kit we are talking about. With the former you can't do anything but not come and encourage others who don't like this (baseless, completely ridiculous) ruling to do the same, all of you stating why. Otherwise do drop FFG an email.

Unless it's a long way off it can't be a store championship. Tourney organizers can do whatever they would like in terms of house rules if it's for a seasonal kit. This does sound silly though and usually the changes TOs make are themes (only certain ships allowed for Death Star 1 tourney) or have created a new mini-game (Tron, Mario Cart, Hunger Games) not targeting rules they don't like.

It would have to be a seasonal kit. We're out of Store Championship season (in which no decent player would abide by the TO's house rules), and if this ruling had been in place at a Regional event we would have heard all about it from other sources.

My recommendation is to attempt to reason with the TO. If that doesn't work, openly mock their lame ruling, and ignore it while playing your matches.