How about "don't read it, not every thread requires your personal insights?"

Man, you're preaching to the choir on this one, I'm just providing context.

I sincerely doubt that people walk around and interject themselves into every conversation they have an opinion about.

You haven't been here long have you.....

It seems that most of the folks who want to change this are not asking for it because they think it's unrealistic, it's because they are having trouble figuring out a way to deal with it.

Presumes to decide the reason for peoples concerns, comments, and discussion by merrily assigning bad play to them.

My problem is that people who are pro-flotilla have a high frequency of behaving like overly aggressive, over caffeinated, elitist, angst filled teenagers instead of carrying on a debate about it, offering suggestions for possible compromises or counter points.

What cracks me up is when they take the stance of "you can't kill it and don't want to change" without realizing that without being able to defend it beyond "it's legal" it's essentially the same stance from the other perspective. "You can't be effective without it and don't want to change."

The only real argument the anti-flotilla people bring is "some element of flotillas makes me sad because of some notion I have about how the game should be played." I don't care one bit if something makes you sad if it doesn't have some kind of concrete data backing it up. We aren't seeing flotilla lifeboats being a huge problem in competitive events.

Quotes me in order to more easily illustrate exactly what I meant.

People can't agree on this one way or the other. Everyone is not going to get behind a change because there are two different opinion. If this is the case rather than fighting the same argument again and again can we trust FFG one way or the other?

My problem is that people who are pro-flotilla have a high frequency of behaving like overly aggressive, over caffeinated, elitist, angst filled teenagers instead of carrying on a debate about it, offering suggestions for possible compromises or counter points.

What cracks me up is when they take the stance of "you can't kill it and don't want to change" without realizing that without being able to defend it beyond "it's legal" it's essentially the same stance from the other perspective. "You can't be effective without it and don't want to change."

It truly is mind boggling.

I reiterate my solution.....Admiral abilities do not apply outside of range 5....just like everything else in the game. At least then the flotilla would be a part of the fleet.

It's not likely that the pro-flotilla people are overly aggressive, it's probably just that the most omnipresent members of the community are all pro-flotilla and they are tired of seeing this whining all the time .

So whining about whining (hypocrisy at it's finest) or being a demeaning ****** in a conversation you find irrelevant (elitism) is the answer, then? How about "don't read it, not every thread requires your personal insights?"

I sincerely doubt that people walk around and interject themselves into every conversation they have an opinion about. How about we remember that this is the internet and not everyone cares about everyone elses opinions? I reiterate (once again since it apparently takes repetition in this community) I see both sides of the flotilla debate. I don't care about using them in a corner, I've built to deal with it if it's there or contribute otherwise if it is not.

As I've stated (again, repetition), I come down slightly on the flotilla = meh side purely because my personal point of view is that it's a moronic mechanic, tactic, and interaction....but I've accepted it and don't go running into every pro-flotilla thread proclaiming my opinion, either. Y'all should try that out sometime.

I still don't understand why people spend more time talking about changing rules to fit their game style instead of talking about how to change their game play to fit the rules?

And here is another example of someone so pompous they base their entire post on their perception of things they have no opinion about (unless you've actually played against anyone you're talking to, since you failed to identify the intended recipient). The joys of speaking in an open forum.

Again, I reiterate that if you're so pro-flotilla that you're willing to immediately assume anyone who talks about them in a way you don't agree with is bad, just don't post. There's no logical reason to act like an elitist on the internet because you don't agree.

Now here's some food for thought, since you pro-flotilla people can't resist being demeaning in these threads.....maybe these threads keep on coming up, not because others are bad but because you're wrong and your own perception of yourself and your opinion prevents you from truly entertaining that idea? Maybe it's just 10 people who love to get on these threads and act like they should be worshiped that are "screaming" down any meaningful conversation and turning everyone one of these threads into something other than what it was intended to be.

A place for discussion and ideas.

Are those not allowed anymore?

Wow talk about elitism. Just casually dismiss remarks like they aren't worthy of your time. Look how pompous you have become maybe you should go QQ now that several people disagree with you and you can't openly be offensive and name call people?

Seriously, you ask for a discussion and you get several answers that were not demeaning or aggressive, and you disregard them. So who's fault is it? The proletariat flotilla lovers? Or the fact you are unable to discuss any topic without acting like a total prick because someone we won't agree with you?

Why are you being so hostile to Green Knight now? You ask for a discussion. Is he not allowed to give advice?

I can totally be annoying, but at least I can respect the other people who decide to comment.

1) Not at all. I merely illustrated how these people do not contribute to the topic of conversation and instead want to passively insult everyone who doesn't agree with them by implying they must be bad because they don't like flotillas. Great job completely missing the point, though. Are you a stormtrooper?

2) Those answers were not part of a discussion. They were dismissive, insulting, and rude. For the most part they were tailored responses designed to self-stroke egos and nothing more. Again I reiterate (since you apparently still can't hit the point, stormtrooper) this post wasn't a poll for opinions. It was a request for discussion. Passive-aggressively labeling everyone who doesn't agree with your position as bad or unable to deal with flotillas is not discussion. Please reference the first part of this response (2).

3) Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. Just kidding. It also wasn't directed at him (I did edit out that you in the first sentence because I realized it might be interpreted as such so I'll give you a pass on this one.)

4) Were you quoted or are you just triggered on behalf of the cool kids?

How about "don't read it, not every thread requires your personal insights?"

Man, you're preaching to the choir on this one, I'm just providing context.

I sincerely doubt that people walk around and interject themselves into every conversation they have an opinion about.

You haven't been here long have you.....

Walk... as in not sitting in your chair behind your monitor. As in that thing called "outside."

I heard there's no respawn in RL so it scares me.

I heard there's no respawn in RL so it scares me.

Take your safety personally and it's not so scary. It's only scary when you leave that up to people you've never met.

Ok, this discussion has earned this.

If you want to insult every person who disagrees with you then I label you a Troll! Try not to get banned with your rage.

I'm not insulting every person who disagrees with me. I've actually talked back and forth plenty, not only in this thread but in others.

I insulted someone who acts like an elitist jerk unless he's talking with the "cool kids" 'round here.

I heard there's no respawn in RL so it scares me.

Take your safety personally and it's not so scary. It's only scary when you leave that up to people you've never met.

Are you actually giving me advice about how to go outside right now? I can't tell if you're continuing the joke or if you just didn't detect it was a joke.

I've been outside before. It was nice. I think there were some trees. Graphics were pretty swell.

It seems that most of the folks who want to change this are not asking for it because they think it's unrealistic, it's because they are having trouble figuring out a way to deal with it.

Presumes to decide the reason for peoples concerns, comments, and discussion by merrily assigning bad play to them.

Cuts and ignores an entire paragraph discussing specific ideas that were thrown around and concerns those changes would create so as to include this one 'opinion' in his continuing escalation of attacks at those who don't agree with him.

1) Not at all. I merely illustrated how these people do not contribute to the topic of conversation and instead want to passively insult everyone who doesn't agree with them by implying they must be bad because they don't like flotillas. Great job completely missing the point, though. Are you a stormtrooper?

Contradicts himself by claiming that 'these people' do not contribute to the conversation after cutting said contribution from previous quote.

First one to officially start name calling as well.

Why is this so hard to understand? Come on these boards and propose 'rules changes' for problems most people don't see, and you WILL get backlash. Discuss house rules you would like to use and if others have thoughts on it, the response will be different.

Ok, this discussion has earned this.

If you want to insult every person who disagrees with you then I label you a Troll! Try not to get banned with your rage.

I'm not insulting every person who disagrees with me. I've actually talked back and forth plenty, not only in this thread but in others.

I insulted someone who acts like an elitist jerk unless he's talking with the "cool kids" 'round here.

No, you totally disregard every single thing I said because you don't want to admit you have no argument based on any evidence and are just mad because we don't agree with you. You want to act like a spoiled kid who isn't getting the attention they want and just outright insult people you will be treated like a spoiled child. You want an actual adult discussion then bring the evidence. Continue down this path and I will have the enjoyment of trolling you with Ben all day. I like logical discussions but find one sided discussion annoying. So again, put up or shut up! Do you have evidence that Flotillas are over powered and need to be changed at all or are you mad because Ben schooled you on the table. I think I already know the answer, but will you admit that you have no evidence?

You are so stuck on yourself you are fundamentally incapable of seeing all I did was give you some of your own medicine. Sure, I had to do it a little more aggressively but otherwise you might not have gotten the point. Give your petulance for assigning people their thoughts, feelings, abilities, and skill level with no knowledge of them what-so-ever, I doubt I'll get through but....you just don't know if you don't try.

So sure, since this is kind of like asking me to explain my point of view instead of just being an insulting ****** and dictating yours, I think that flotillas are fundamentally flawed in the fact that they are not every realistic, either in life as close as we can compare it or in the lore of Star Wars. I think that it might not have occurred to FFG that people would just stick their admirals in flotillas and go park them somewhere. We'll never know because to admit would be to admit they're just kind of throwing stuff out to milk money without much thought or design.

Flotillas are the Star Wars equal to a General commanding a tank battle from a cargo van.

Why don't you go start a thread and debate how fantastic and useful flotillas are and let "we little peons" discuss our point of view in peace, yea? Oh wait, there's already one there, as well as my squadron thread that actually talks about a way to turn your lifeboat into a contribution to the battle and make it less of a joke to use.

It's amazing what happens when you stop reciting your opinion long enough to ask someone what their is, isn't it?

I heard there's no respawn in RL so it scares me.

Take your safety personally and it's not so scary. It's only scary when you leave that up to people you've never met.

Are you actually giving me advice about how to go outside right now? I can't tell if you're continuing the joke or if you just didn't detect it was a joke.

I've been outside before. It was nice. I think there were some trees. Graphics were pretty swell.

Am I? I don't know. I guess that depends on where you live. Are you in a place where you're allowed to be responsible for yourself?

It seems that most of the folks who want to change this are not asking for it because they think it's unrealistic, it's because they are having trouble figuring out a way to deal with it.

Presumes to decide the reason for peoples concerns, comments, and discussion by merrily assigning bad play to them.

Cuts and ignores an entire paragraph discussing specific ideas that were thrown around and concerns those changes would create so as to include this one 'opinion' in his continuing escalation of attacks at those who don't agree with him.

1) Not at all. I merely illustrated how these people do not contribute to the topic of conversation and instead want to passively insult everyone who doesn't agree with them by implying they must be bad because they don't like flotillas. Great job completely missing the point, though. Are you a stormtrooper?

Contradicts himself by claiming that 'these people' do not contribute to the conversation after cutting said contribution from previous quote.

First one to officially start name calling as well.

Why is this so hard to understand? Come on these boards and propose 'rules changes' for problems most people don't see, and you WILL get backlash. Discuss house rules you would like to use and if others have thoughts on it, the response will be different.

Why would I read an opinion from someone who is just going to recite why everyone but them are wrong? From past experience, there is no such thing as a good debate with someone who know's everything before it starts. I can have more meaningful conversations with my dog.

2) Those answers were not part of a discussion. They were dismissive, insulting, and rude. For the most part they were tailored responses designed to self-stroke egos and nothing more. Again I reiterate (since you apparently still can't hit the point, stormtrooper) this post wasn't a poll for opinions. It was a request for discussion. Passive-aggressively labeling everyone who doesn't agree with your position as bad or unable to deal with flotillas is not discussion. Please reference the first part of this response (2).

I really don't want to keep quoting the giant massive monster of a text over and over again hahaha

But this post is most certainly looking for opinions. The OP asked for thoughts on 2 rule changes. I asked if they were house rules or global and got no response. I'm all for helping people make house rules. But not for players changing global rules because of x,y,z. People gave their opinions. Sad thing is they are not the opinions that you wanted to read in this thread. You wanted happy, positive, agreeing opinions. And then you labelled everyone who does not want FFG to change the flotilla rules "pro-flotilla" and proceeded to attack and insult everyone who held that view point.

So how can the forums have a discussion without certain things being clarified, such as house vs global rules, or having people get upset when they don't hear what they want?

The reason you irk me so much is your blatant disregard for everyone else's opinions in a post asking for peoples opinions.

Xindell nails it in my opinion. We have passionate opinions on these things because we like this game. It gets tiresome seeing all the nay-saying and the people who want the game to change to them rather than them just change the way they play the game.

I do agree with you, Sygnetix, that people do come off pompous and snarky, but I'm sure that has more to do with them being worn out fighting these ideas rather than all the jerks having to land on the pro-flotilla side. Ha. I was just providing context to your statement.

Taking a step back is probably a good idea, but for some people that's not easy since, as I said, they've invested in this game.

Can we not be hostile now?

It seems that most of the folks who want to change this are not asking for it because they think it's unrealistic, it's because they are having trouble figuring out a way to deal with it.

Presumes to decide the reason for peoples concerns, comments, and discussion by merrily assigning bad play to them.

Cuts and ignores an entire paragraph discussing specific ideas that were thrown around and concerns those changes would create so as to include this one 'opinion' in his continuing escalation of attacks at those who don't agree with him.

1) Not at all. I merely illustrated how these people do not contribute to the topic of conversation and instead want to passively insult everyone who doesn't agree with them by implying they must be bad because they don't like flotillas. Great job completely missing the point, though. Are you a stormtrooper?

Contradicts himself by claiming that 'these people' do not contribute to the conversation after cutting said contribution from previous quote.

First one to officially start name calling as well.

Why is this so hard to understand? Come on these boards and propose 'rules changes' for problems most people don't see, and you WILL get backlash. Discuss house rules you would like to use and if others have thoughts on it, the response will be different.

JJJust incase you missed it.

Dude, You don't see the problem! I said bring the evidence and your response has been "I think". That is not evidence, that's an opinion. That is my problem, you're presenting your opinions as an actual argument that is overwhelming better than other's opinions. That is a flawed argument.

So bring the evidence or stop this nonsense.

2) Those answers were not part of a discussion. They were dismissive, insulting, and rude. For the most part they were tailored responses designed to self-stroke egos and nothing more. Again I reiterate (since you apparently still can't hit the point, stormtrooper) this post wasn't a poll for opinions. It was a request for discussion. Passive-aggressively labeling everyone who doesn't agree with your position as bad or unable to deal with flotillas is not discussion. Please reference the first part of this response (2).

I really don't want to keep quoting the giant massive monster of a text over and over again hahaha

But this post is most certainly looking for opinions. The OP asked for thoughts on 2 rule changes. I asked if they were house rules or global and got no response. I'm all for helping people make house rules. But not for players changing global rules because of x,y,z. People gave their opinions. Sad thing is they are not the opinions that you wanted to read in this thread. You wanted happy, positive, agreeing opinions. And then you labelled everyone who does not want FFG to change the flotilla rules "pro-flotilla" and proceeded to attack and insult everyone who held that view point.

So how can the forums have a discussion without certain things being clarified, such as house vs global rules, or having people get upset when they don't hear what they want?

The reason you irk me so much is your blatant disregard for everyone else's opinions in a post asking for peoples opinions.

Agreed. He asked for opinions and discussion. The first page and a half had that. Go back and reread and watch the entry of the dismissive, arrogant, elitist perspective into this. Look at who those opinions are phrased. Look at how they're are delivered. Look at how many assumptions they make, not about the discussion, but about the person in the discussion. Look at the declarations made....and for what?

To make themselves look/feel good and/or in an attempt to strengthen their own opinion.

That is not good debate. That's not even a good conversation.

Dude, You don't see the problem! I said bring the evidence and your response has been "I think". That is not evidence, that's an opinion. That is my problem, you're presenting your opinions as an actual argument that is overwhelming better than other's opinions. That is a flawed argument.

So bring the evidence or stop this nonsense.

I'll be honest, he's said several times he really doesn't actually even have a dog in this fight. It feels like he's just arguing to argue at this point.

Edit: NORTH FLORIDA. That explains it....

LOL

As an aside, flotillas do make great command centres thematically (bomber command centre as an option is a bit of a giveaway) plus fleet commanders dont want to be in the thick of things because they like to watch the flow of battle and control from there. I guess some would want/ do dive in (Vader for example).

Second point: The amount of times ive put my Admiral on a life boat flotilla and approx. turn 4 (sometimes even turn 3 if im super silly) he's been nuked. Saying flotillas winging off to the corner is "safe" is not a correct assumption IMHO...

Dude, You don't see the problem! I said bring the evidence and your response has been "I think". That is not evidence, that's an opinion. That is my problem, you're presenting your opinions as an actual argument that is overwhelming better than other's opinions. That is a flawed argument.

So bring the evidence or stop this nonsense.

Lol? You serious right now? You seem to like to think, as well. Take your own advice, then maybe we can continue. Until then, untwist your panties and stop assuming that because people are having a conversation about how to bring an element of a game more inline with either Lore or gameplay preference, they're simply bad for possibly adapting a house rule to facilitate this.

" I still don't understand why people spend more time talking about changing rules to fit their game style instead of talking about how to change their game play to fit the rules? "

2) Those answers were not part of a discussion. They were dismissive, insulting, and rude. For the most part they were tailored responses designed to self-stroke egos and nothing more. Again I reiterate (since you apparently still can't hit the point, stormtrooper) this post wasn't a poll for opinions. It was a request for discussion. Passive-aggressively labeling everyone who doesn't agree with your position as bad or unable to deal with flotillas is not discussion. Please reference the first part of this response (2).

I really don't want to keep quoting the giant massive monster of a text over and over again hahaha

But this post is most certainly looking for opinions. The OP asked for thoughts on 2 rule changes. I asked if they were house rules or global and got no response. I'm all for helping people make house rules. But not for players changing global rules because of x,y,z. People gave their opinions. Sad thing is they are not the opinions that you wanted to read in this thread. You wanted happy, positive, agreeing opinions. And then you labelled everyone who does not want FFG to change the flotilla rules "pro-flotilla" and proceeded to attack and insult everyone who held that view point.

So how can the forums have a discussion without certain things being clarified, such as house vs global rules, or having people get upset when they don't hear what they want?

The reason you irk me so much is your blatant disregard for everyone else's opinions in a post asking for peoples opinions.

Agreed. He asked for opinions and discussion. The first page and a half had that. Go back and reread and watch the entry of the dismissive, arrogant, elitist perspective into this. Look at who those opinions are phrased. Look at how they're are delivered. Look at how many assumptions they make, not about the discussion, but about the person in the discussion. Look at the declarations made....and for what?

To make themselves look/feel good and/or in an attempt to strengthen their own opinion.

That is not good debate. That's not even a good conversation.

And again, the key point is what is the rule change in regards to?

If your post about flotillas or this one was a legit proposal to change the rules, don't you think everyone who plays should be allowed to speak their mind? Shouldn't we get everyone's opinion? Why should a few people who are the "flotilla-haters" (hey look I made a label too!) get to mandate a new rule change with no discussion from the "pro-flotilla" crowd?

But Beatty isn't the one proposing a change. A person proposing a change should bring evidence for the change. Beatty is well within his rights to not provide evidence to back up his position, his position is the default.

LOL

Tell us how you really feel

This is the third thread in 2 weeks you kids have shouted down into a multi-page argument. Feel free to continue, I'll continue to contribute. Bunch of conversationalist fascists. Next time it does come up (and it will), be adults and jjjust let it be discussed. I keep asking and it keeps getting ignored: What's the harm in that?

But Beatty isn't the one proposing a change. A person proposing a change should bring evidence for the change. Beatty is well within his rights to not provide evidence to back up his position, his position is the default.

He's also well within his rights to not open the thread and interject himself into a discussion he (and others) continually go out of their way to derail.