The boxes were never meant for storage. Recycle it or use it as some pretty decorative art and get a real storage box or a binder.

With the cluster**** FFG/Asmodee did on their idiotic stance for online retailers increasing the prices across the board, and now the lower quality boxes/clamshell, from my perspective, I'm paying more for less. At least the quality of the cards hasn't been compromised (yet), so there's that.

It wasn't idiotic. Its important to support real stores. The ones where people actually get to play and socialize.

With the cluster**** FFG/Asmodee did on their idiotic stance for online retailers increasing the prices across the board, and now the lower quality boxes/clamshell, from my perspective, I'm paying more for less. At least the quality of the cards hasn't been compromised (yet), so there's that.

It wasn't idiotic. Its important to support real stores. The ones where people actually get to play and socialize.

Last I checked online retailers were stores, and they provide a valuable service for those who don't have a FLGS to go to, or their FLGS isn't exactly friendly (in my case), or it's an inconvenience to drive out to one. I understand the value of social spaces, but I still find it idiotic to raise prices like that. Again, I'm paying more for less.

Last I checked online retailers were stores, and they provide a valuable service for those who don't have a FLGS to go to, or their FLGS isn't exactly friendly (in my case), or it's an inconvenience to drive out to one. I understand the value of social spaces, but I still find it idiotic to raise prices like that. Again, I'm paying more for less.

Yes, they are stores, but brick and mortar shops have much higher overheads. I pay where I play, in order to support my FLGS. I'm sorry that you don't have one, and it may feel you are subsidising other people's gaming stores, so I sympathise. However, FLGS build the hobby and generate more people for you to play against in a way that purely online retailers don't. Having a situation where you can go play games at your local shop, but are discouraged from buying from them due to big discounts being offered by online shops is not fair to brick and mortar stores, and long term could see them close down.

If anything, the new policy might encourage someone to open a FLGS near you!

The boxes were never meant for storage. Recycle it or use it as some pretty decorative art and get a real storage box or a binder.

A binder for games with so many cards is impractical. Can you point out where can I find a "real storage box" for this game? Obviously you cannot mean the base game.

Disregarding the joke of having to buy a storage for I game I have already bought, I don't might paying a reasonable amount but I want it decorated with the theme and logo of the game and I don't want a huge and super heavy box but something more modular, per expansion or so. Where can I get that?

Oh wait, I should have that already!

Custom storage like sleeving should NEVER be imposed on customers.

If the game box isn't meant for storage, the entire world is doing it wrong. Board games have always been packed back into their boxes after use. LCGs shouldn't be any different, apart from the spilling over into other boxes a few expansions later - boxes which the expansions no longer provide. Go7, Basically Wooden and others provide decent solutions to make the most of boxes which weren't designed to hold the components neatly.

The LCG boxes are intrinsically terrible for tidy storage only because FFG cheap out (particularly after the merger). See Paizo's Pathfinder ACG for one of several proper ways to do it - the core has slots for every expansion box.

Sleeves I'm fine with. Some don't sleeve, and I think they're mad. I get cheap enough sleeves that I can protect my games from my own frequently greasy fingers

Now those chaos bag tokens could use a few upgrades …

So, we hear a bunch of complaints that "Why did they lower the quality of the boxes, I need them!", but if they raised prices instead, would we hear, "Why did they raise prices and keep these stupid boxes, I always throw them out!"

FFG did their research, as a company, and made they decision that worked best for them. From their point of view: We're still buying the product.

I would love to see the cycle boxes be more like the Magic: the Gathering Fat Packs, which is just a fancied up single lane for cards. Give it enough to hold a self contained cycle, and little more, and I'm happy. I didn't play LotR, so I could see the value in keeping each cycle separate, but for the other LCGs I have cards for (Netrunner, Star Wars, AGoT2.0) I have thrown out all boxes except for the core sets - and actually I have no box for Game of Thrones, I put those in an alternative storage.

So, we hear a bunch of complaints that "Why did they lower the quality of the boxes, I need them!", but if they raised prices instead, would we hear, "Why did they raise prices and keep these stupid boxes, I always throw them out!"

Yeah, but the complaints would come from different people.

Toolkits are the thing now. Basically a 400-card box, and not too shoddy quality either.

Board games have always been packed back into their boxes after use. LCGs shouldn't be any different, apart from the spilling over into other boxes a few expansions later - boxes which the expansions no longer provide.

The problem here is that you are missunderstanding what a LCG is. You think they are boardgames and hence they should come with great boxes to store them into. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but LCG are not regular boardgames.

LCG are CCG with a fixed card distribution model.

So, the real question is: why should them be any different than other CCG? CCG don't come with a box to pack them back after use, they come with throw away packages and expect the players to find their own storage solutions (deck boxes, binders, cardboard, etc.). So why should LCG, which are CCG in their core, come with nice storage solution instead?

AH:LCG gameplay is closer to a regular boardgame than a CCG (there's no metagame or active deckbuilding), but FFG decided to release it as a LCG instead (don't ask me why, as I think this would have made a lot more sense as a regular boardgame like Warhammer Quest: ACG, with a complete cardpool in the core set to sustain 4 players, small investigator decks expansions and full campaign big expansions).

Board games have always been packed back into their boxes after use. LCGs shouldn't be any different, apart from the spilling over into other boxes a few expansions later - boxes which the expansions no longer provide.

The problem here is that you are missunderstanding what a LCG is. You think they are boardgames and hence they should come with great boxes to store them into. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but LCG are not regular boardgames.

LCG are CCG with a fixed card distribution model.

So, the real question is: why should them be any different than other CCG? CCG don't come with a box to pack them back after use, they come with throw away packages and expect the players to find their own storage solutions (deck boxes, binders, cardboard, etc.). So why should LCG, which are CCG in their core, come with nice storage solution instead?

AH:LCG gameplay is closer to a regular boardgame than a CCG (there's no metagame or active deckbuilding), but FFG decided to release it as a LCG instead (don't ask me why, as I think this would have made a lot more sense as a regular boardgame like Warhammer Quest: ACG, with a complete cardpool in the core set to sustain 4 players, small investigator decks expansions and full campaign big expansions).

The big difference between LCG and CCG, as you state, is the fixed card distribution, which makes it very different from a CCG for storage purposes. Effectively any cycle (or even the whole game overall) is going to have a defined number of cards, and that's how most of the players will purchase them. With a CCG, I might open packs until I have a full set, but in that time I will have some cards I have 50 copies of, and others I have only 1 of. The physical space of a player's collection is largely unknown, especially once you add in trading and the like. FFG could make very intelligent decisions on box sizes because of the fixed distribution, the only complaint then would be "it doesn't fit my sleeved cards" or "it's too big for my unsleeved cards". This is what I would love to see, but I don't expect them to change at this stage of the game.

The problem here is that you are missunderstanding what a LCG is. You think they are boardgames and hence they should come with great boxes to store them into.

No, I'm not misunderstanding. I'm certainly not thinking that they come with great boxes. That's exactly the problem I have: The utter waste, when other companies have done better again and again. Why should its more frequent releases cause it to have more waste? Shouldn't exactly the opposite be the case, rather than contribute to the piles of garbage we produce? Other games with similar distribution models have clearly managed to create better storage, like the aforementioned PACG, which has runs of one large box and a cycle of 6 adventure packs and a character add-on monthly after that.

But if you want to compare to a CCG, MtG is a great example of a game which gets proper storage. Gift boxes, toolkits, the former fat packs are all much better storage than any FFG game ever had. Toolkits are the recommended starter sets now, and they have plenty of room for expansion. Gift boxes are the upgrade when you want to get serious (and also make nice storage for other card games).

So my point really is: FFG suck at making good use of their LCG boxes, while a lot of companies making board & card games don't.

(Not that the few board games I have from FFG are any better - big, empty thing without inserts is the norm here, with components rattling around in bags.)

FFG could make very intelligent decisions on box sizes because of the fixed distribution, the only complaint then would be "it doesn't fit my sleeved cards" or "it's too big for my unsleeved cards". This is what I would love to see, but I don't expect them to change at this stage of the game.

I don't either, although a company which also sells sleeves (and so many types) could be expected to sell some sort of storage. Asmodee haven't bought ALL the competition yet, so they should really improve some things.

Remember: We don't complain because we hate the game; we complain because we care

One thing FFG could do is sell storage solutions for their games. I don't meant the small boxes that come with their prize kits. These are cool, but are for carrying one or two decks at most. I'm thinking something bigger and solid, like the one AEG did for Smash-up https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/157427/smash-big-geeky-box (I can't believe I'm suggesting FFG to follow AEG's lead in anything!), with nice, strong dividers for the each faction, card type, etc. I find surprising FFG hasn't tapped yet this market slot, considering they have already a line of gaming supplies, and the obvious need for this for all their LCGs.

FFG did their research, as a company, and made they decision that worked best for them. From their point of view: We're still buying the product.

You seem to imply the company has neen doing things wrong until recently. It's a very common mistake to acquire a company and change the very essense that made it successful in the first place, IBM does that all the time.

I bought the expansion on the internet making a quality asumption I won't make anymore with FF. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have bought it but certainly will not buy as near as much as in LOTR if this is just a bunch of cards and not something I'm proud to own.

I love the story of how the employees of Harley Davidson bought their own company and refused to cut quality to go mass production.

There is a big difference between CCG and LCG.

In the latter it is pretty common to collect everything. That simple difference is a big one.

FFG did their research, as a company, and made they decision that worked best for them. From their point of view: We're still buying the product.

You seem to imply the company has neen doing things wrong until recently. It's a very common mistake to acquire a company and change the very essense that made it successful in the first place, IBM does that all the time.

I bought the expansion on the internet making a quality asumption I won't make anymore with FF. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have bought it but certainly will not buy as near as much as in LOTR if this is just a bunch of cards and not something I'm proud to own.

I love the story of how the employees of Harley Davidson bought their own company and refused to cut quality to go mass production.

There is a big difference between CCG and LCG.

In the latter it is pretty common to collect everything. That simple difference is a big one.

You think it is the quality of boxes that makes FFG successful..?

I, honestly, in the last 20 years, can't think of a single game of theirs that has had a well designed box/insert. The quality of their games however, has stayed consistent, and has even improved. Along with that, I've had to work with their customer service several times recently (and not because of some problem caused by FFG) and they have been extremely helpful, showing that they adhere to quality where it matters. I will continue to do business with them until these things change, as far as box quality, I and many people (as these kind of threads have shown) will get over it.

AH:LCG gameplay is closer to a regular boardgame than a CCG (there's no metagame or active deckbuilding), but FFG decided to release it as a LCG instead (don't ask me why, as I think this would have made a lot more sense as a regular boardgame like Warhammer Quest: ACG, with a complete cardpool in the core set to sustain 4 players, small investigator decks expansions and full campaign big expansions).

And here's where I disagree. Not with the comment that it is more like a regular boardgame in play, but that it would have made more sense as a regular boardgame. Releasing it as they did, as an LCG, and having no traditional board allows them limitless freedom in their scenarios. Just look at the differences regarding locations and what they have already achieved by not having a set board. From discarding locations as the scenario advances to layout like we see in the Carnevale scenario, the circle you can only move one direction on.

I'd rather throw 1 dollar more in the deluxe box and have the old layout. The art on these boxes is simply astonishing; true that they are worthless for storing the game, but they are not worthless for storing any game. It's nice to have some extra boxes to store tiles or ziplock bags or other items belonging to this or that game. And some art is nice to have on display.

As for this being derivative of the Asmodee merge: we actually already had sucky boxes in the past, just not for LCGs. If you get the SW: Age of Rebellion Beginners Box, for example, you have everything but a sturdy box.

I was kinda surprised when I received yesterday my Sands of Harad expansion for LotR and saw the "old" beautiful standard deluxe box. It was like meeting an old friend again.

I'm curious what percentage of people keep the deluxe boxes. And at what point it becomes an "acceptable" business decision to reduce the quality. Based on my experience with other local LotR players, I'd estimate less than 20% of people keep the boxes. But that's a wild guess.

I can't comment on the percentage, LotR is a different experience where you have reason to keep a cycle "self-contained". Yet with all the other LCGs, I don't know a single person who kept any of the boxes except for the core set box, and that isn't even a guarantee. Of course, this is all anecdotal, but still, seems more reasonable for games where you just add player cards to an already existing stack of player cards.

I have kept all my LOTR deluxe boxes. And just like LOTR, this game, it makes sense to keep all the expansion encounter cards in a deluxe box. Likewise I'd happily pay the extra $ for a proper box.

I'm surprised they don't sell a decent solution for it themselves. Seems like an easy way for them to make more money...

I used to keep all my deluxe boxes, for agot, netrunner, lotr, sw and cthulhu.

It took up so much space that I had to let them go.

Now I don't mind the cheaper box, although I wish there was a price cut to go along with it.

I hope they have considered that it's not just a matter of majority. Customer satisfaction psicology is not simple math, loss aversion is always a stronger emotion.

The people that agree with this it are not going to be thankful to FF for their choice everytime they play the game; on the other hand the opposite is likely the case.

Are you really going to throw it away even if it's not practical?

Are you not going at the very least to cutout and keep the gorgeous art in the front?

Are you really going to throw it away even if it's not practical?

Are you not going at the very least to cutout and keep the gorgeous art in the front?

I've thrown away every LCG box I've ever purchased, because they suck to hold things in. And I've bought pretty much all of them.

If I want to see the art, I can download it from online.

I've thrown away all my expansion boxes. In retrospect, I wish I had cut up the LotR deluxes to use the art and names for my other storage. I will probably do that with Arkham Horror, and the cheap deluxe boxes are just fine for that purpose. My gaming space is limited and I would much rather have more games than use up the space for expansion boxes.

I've kept one of my LOTR deluxe boxes to hold all of the rule booklets from the others. Everything else has just gone in the recycling. I'm glad they've taken steps to reduce packaging, but there's still a lot of wasted space inside.