So if a unit's hit points are reduced to zero outside of combat are they dead? For instance a Dark Elf Vile Sorcerer has a forced effect that reduces a targets hit points by 1 till the end of the turn. If this is done to a target with 1 hit point or a wounded target with only 1 hit point remaining is that target dead?

Wraith428

wraith428 said:

Yep. With 0 HP, the Unit has as many damage counters (or more) on it as its HPs so, dead.

What if the unit has no damage counters on it but has its hit points reduced to zero? eg as acheived by one or more "we need your blood" cards

The rules under apply damage pg 13 say "Any unit that has as many (or more) damage tokens on it as it has hit points is destroyed (and discarded)."

Does zero damage counters along with zero hit points result in card destroyed? It looks like it does to me.

I guess this also gets around toughness?

Hi,

toughness should avoid this effect, since there is not assigned damage to any unit. You just lower the hit points.

jelonertz said:

Don't know how to edit

Toughness should NOT avoid this effect.

I am still confused about this question. Pg. 7 of the rulebook under Hitpoints "The amount of damage a unit can take. If a unit has as many damage tokens as it has hit points, that unit is destroyed and placed in it's owner's discard pile."

The way I read this is even if a unit is at say zero or negative one hit points from card effects, the unit is not destroyed until it receives a damage token, right?

thehuntercat said:

0 HP with 0 damage tokens, Unit has as many damage tokens as HP, no? If the two numbers are the same, dead.

OKAY...got it. So the Vile Sorceress -would- bust through Toughness, right, since the -1 HP is not technically damage?

Thanks for clearing up the first point btw

Reducing it to numbers as Dam did reveals the meaning clearly.

The rules say, "If a unit has as many damage tokens as it has hit points, that unit is destroyed and placed in it's owner's discard pile."

We can write this out as:

Total Damage Tokens = X
Total HitPoints = Y
IF X = Y the rule is met and the unit is destroyed, even if X and Y are both 0.

It isn't that -1 "Busts through toughness," as it is, toughness is a damage cancel that happens in the apply damage step. Lowering a unit's (or zones) HP is not placing damage tokens on it, so there is no damage token to remove with the cancel (as illustrated with the rules on page, 13 ). But yes, lowering of HP avoids all forms of damage cancel since it is not actually applying any damage tokens. By this same logic any effect that requires damaging a unit could not be triggered by lowering a unit's HP.

Got it.

Thanks again.