3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'm surprised you were able to wear Assaj down with a Defender - she shoudl be functionally getting focus/evade every round, because you should always be in her mobile arc, so your expected damage against her should be more or less 0, ditto hers against you. It shoudl be a wash to time, on average, with a single defender vs assaj.

I had him flanked with Stele so the first couple of round he couldn't get that stress on me. I don't remember the arc placement but he had to move it several times just to have me in it. So he rarely had focus toward the end of the match and Maarek with Juke just wore her down.

8 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Vader makes them think, but they've just got to hurl Fenn in close to RAC and try to pummel the Deci down, or bump it with Fenn. I think he got it wrong, there.

I agree. You cannot go an entire game without getting an attack from Fenn. He was worried about the match up even before ship placement. If he brings Fenn into the fight he most likely wins because I wouldn't have gotten that first few rounds of damage into Manaroo

Yeah you're trading Fenn for, what, 8/9 damage on the Deci? Especially if you include Vader damage. That's not a bad trade when you're boxed into a corner in how you play the ship.

3 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Yeah. No.

Attani Mindlink is good against stress, not bad.

Please explain. How is it "good against stress"? Seemed to work fine in my two wins against it this weekend.

5 hours ago, Xerandar said:

How does a Rebel list with BTL Stressbot fare against this list?

Stressbot is good if you remember to strategically switch targets between primary and TLT attacks to stress two ships per turn, preferably loading Manaroo down with 2 stress for obvious reasons.

*derp* They all get stress from the first shot. Switching targets is for not-Parattani lists.

Won me a game last weekend flying Nora, Stressbot and Horton sniper versus Parattani. Came down to Nora vs Assajj, and the regen from R2-D2 plus good rolling won me the match.

.

2 hours ago, player346259 said:

I think the point was that you cannot completely deny actions to a mindlinked ship, because even with multiple stress it can still get 1-2 focuses from the wingmen.

But of course you are dealing stress to the whole squad, which restricts their movement a bit.

So in one way Mindlink is more resilient to stress, but in another way it's more vulnerable.

Personally I think stress control is fine against Mindlink, but it won't win you the games by itself.

Now THAT makes sense! The way I won was to stress them and take advantage of the restricted movements. Blocking Manaroo for 4 straight turns worked well too. No extra target locks or evades to pass on. As for Ventress, crit her as fast as you can. In both games I got her crits in the first round of shooting. Fenn? Well that one there's no plan. I don't care what anyone says. You gotta hope for the best...and especially hope he's not around long.

Lost another game to an attani list. Ironically it was probably the "easiest" version I've faced yet had the worst results against. A big part were my red dice crapped out on me at the worst possible times, even with multiple modifications to back them up. His almost never missed on the flip side.

It's getting harder for me to keep an optimistic view when doing these games and not start mentally thinking I'm going to auto lose.

Not sure what the best way to fix attani is. For the cost, it probably should have just been an insurance way to make sure you get a focus each round even if bumped or stressed, not a cheaper version of PTL that's arguably easier to get two actions with. Having range restrictions would help somewhat, especially on manaroo. Or maybe like deadeye it's another upgrade that should become small ship only.

20 minutes ago, markcsoul said:

Lost another game to an attani list. Ironically it was probably the "easiest" version I've faced yet had the worst results against. A big part were my red dice crapped out on me at the worst possible times, even with multiple modifications to back them up. His almost never missed on the flip side.

It's getting harder for me to keep an optimistic view when doing these games and not start mentally thinking I'm going to auto lose.

Not sure what the best way to fix attani is. For the cost, it probably should have just been an insurance way to make sure you get a focus each round even if bumped or stressed, not a cheaper version of PTL that's arguably easier to get two actions with. Having range restrictions would help somewhat, especially on manaroo. Or maybe like deadeye it's another upgrade that should become small ship only.

I've said it elsewhere (maybe in this thread), but it's a list that is deceiving in its simplicity, but it makes use of several mechanics that probably are a bit too powerful for the game: Fenn and his extra attack dice, 2x unlimited range abilities, Manaroo, and hyper action economy on the cheap. 3 points total usually gets six total actions for the squad with little drawback. The mindlink stress is easily worked around and still allows ships to get actions if you plan carefully, easily a less harsh penalty (for cheaper) than what was the gold standard of PTL.

1 hour ago, markcsoul said:

Not sure what the best way to fix attani is.

Y'know, possibly it's the ships that are the problem here rather than the upgrade.

When it first came out, Attani was briefly experimented with and then largely discarded, as all the potential carriers bar the JM5K quite frankly sucked at managing the stress that came with it. In other words, the card's downside actually mattered. Then you give Scum not 1 but 2 Interceptor-level dials, one on a 10-hp pseudo-PWT, and suddenly the downside barely matters at all because all 3 ships are amazing managers of stress.

It was also because the Scum lacked very efficient ships that didn't rely on Deadeye, and weren't suppressed by u boats.

I mean, when Wave 8 first came out, what would you have put mindlink on?

Talonebane? Already sucked.
Guri/Xizor? Too expensive, but otherwise Guri is an excellent user of it. Bring me my StarViper fix already dammit.
Palob? Dead to U boats
N'Dru/Kaato? Maybe, but who with?
Kavil? Dead to u boats
Zuckuss/4LOM/Findsman? U boats
Scyk? lol
Firespray? Maybe I guess, but U boats.
Bossk? Maybe I guess, but efficiency + zuckuss crew make him a really bad carrier for it. And U boats.

It's only when the Protectorate and the Lancer came out, and Deadeye was nerfed, that there were useful platforms for it.

It's odd how people forget just how much U boats warped the meta.

On the note of Guri, this is the first time I've done the comparison:

Guri with Mindlink and autothrusters, PS5: 33 points.

Fenn with Mindlink, title, autothrusters, PS9: 32 points.

HOW many points is the StarViper overcosted by?!

9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It was also because the Scum lacked very efficient ships that didn't rely on Deadeye, and weren't suppressed by u boats.

I mean, when Wave 8 first came out, what would you have put mindlink on?

Talonebane? Already sucked.
Guri/Xizor? Too expensive, but otherwise Guri is an excellent user of it. Bring me my StarViper fix already dammit.
Palob? Dead to U boats
N'Dru/Kaato? Maybe, but who with?
Kavil? Dead to u boats
Zuckuss/4LOM/Findsman? U boats
Scyk? lol
Firespray? Maybe I guess, but U boats.
Bossk? Maybe I guess, but efficiency + zuckuss crew make him a really bad carrier for it. And U boats.

It's only when the Protectorate and the Lancer came out, and Deadeye was nerfed, that there were useful platforms for it.

It's odd how people forget just how much U boats warped the meta.

Well, there was some people who get results with Attanni Scyks, before the fix

3 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Y'know, possibly it's the ships that are the problem here rather than the upgrade.

When it first came out, Attani was briefly experimented with and then largely discarded, as all the potential carriers bar the JM5K quite frankly sucked at managing the stress that came with it. In other words, the card's downside actually mattered. Then you give Scum not 1 but 2 Interceptor-level dials, one on a 10-hp pseudo-PWT, and suddenly the downside barely matters at all because all 3 ships are amazing managers of stress.

No, the problem is the upgrade because it discriminates which ships can use it effectively. Either Mindlink stays in the game and they NEVER print an efficient scum ship with good greens on the dial, or Mindlink goes.

6 hours ago, markcsoul said:

Or maybe like deadeye it's another upgrade that should become small ship only.

That's not too bad, but then it's just a ticking timebomb waiting for the right/wrong (depending on your POV) small ship to arrive.

I understand they're testing Manaroo/Palp nerfs but FFG always moves so slowly that I think they're still trying to 'solve' Dengaroo long after that horse has bolted. Making Manaroo range 1-3 will barely affect the new problem of Paratanni, I hope they actually take notice and get ahead of the problem to make Manaroo and Mindlink only work at range 1-2.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

It was also because the Scum lacked very efficient ships that didn't rely on Deadeye, and weren't suppressed by u boats.

I mean, when Wave 8 first came out, what would you have put mindlink on?

Talonebane? Already sucked.
Guri/Xizor? Too expensive, but otherwise Guri is an excellent user of it. Bring me my StarViper fix already dammit.
Palob? Dead to U boats
N'Dru/Kaato? Maybe, but who with?
Kavil? Dead to u boats
Zuckuss/4LOM/Findsman? U boats
Scyk? lol
Firespray? Maybe I guess, but U boats.
Bossk? Maybe I guess, but efficiency + zuckuss crew make him a really bad carrier for it. And U boats.

It's only when the Protectorate and the Lancer came out, and Deadeye was nerfed, that there were useful platforms for it.

It's odd how people forget just how much U boats warped the meta.

Starviper fix = protectorate starfighter.

22 minutes ago, Sciencius said:

Starviper fix = protectorate starfighter.

I mean, this is accurate (and true of the K-Fighter as well), but I think they're still working on fixes for those two anyway.

19 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I mean, this is accurate (and true of the K-Fighter as well), but I think they're still working on fixes for those two anyway.

I love the StarViper, and I hope they come up with something cool that fits that ship perfectly.

26 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I mean, this is accurate (and true of the K-Fighter as well), but I think they're still working on fixes for those two anyway.

Really? I've always approached the Starviper as a knife-fighter, the Protectorate an interceptor. I'm not seeing a lot of crossover, playstyle-wise.

1 hour ago, Sciencius said:

Starviper fix = protectorate starfighter.

Lol, nope. Starviper will never be an interceptor, totally different ideas.

"1 straight is strong in her"

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

Lol, nope. Starviper will never be an interceptor, totally different ideas.

"1 straight is strong in her"

LOL, yet the protectorate title says otherwise.

The title just means they intercept a bit more... directly. Really it's more about the greens and the dial.

40 minutes ago, Sciencius said:

LOL, yet the protectorate title says otherwise.

Uhm...what is the clue of that?

The Protectorate is a scum interceptor. The Starviper was never be. Is the fault of the players consider the Viper as an Interceptor. That is totally wrong

On the subject of 'fixes', I wonder: if the FAQ states that unless explicitly stated otherwise, all abilities have a max Range of R3, would that fix or hamper stuff?

I don't think there's much that would break, and it would be an elegant start to fixing some of these.