None of those lists comes close to the ridiculous shenanigans described by MJ.

Have someone that plays Brobots, Palp Aces, Dengaroo, Fat Han (back in the Wave 4/5 days), Corran/Dash (Wave 5-7ish) go through and give the same sort of analysis of their list, why it wins, how to create winning situations, and how to avoid getting put into bad spots and I suspect you'd come away thinking the same thing about those squads.

Hell, hearing Blair Bunke talking about this list made it sound like it was all sorts of awesome:

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

Autoblaster Turret (2)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

Autoblaster Turret (2)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 100

It's Y-Wings with Torpedos and a bunch of Z-95s for chrissakes but Blair made it sound sexy as hell.

Weird I just played against that exact list on vassal last night. Wasn't Blair flying it though.

Decent list. My list was rather uncompetitive and also my 2nd time flying it but I heald my own and probably should have won but our luck in the game was definitely lopsided.

He was on a recent episode of the Mynock Squad podcast suggesting that people give it a try, so it's not surprising that you just bumped into it.

Poe getting 3 actions? Please tell me how b/c I've been doing in wrong. Rey 3 actions? Wow! How?! Red Ace three actions? That's quite amazing. Really it is. (Were it true.)

Reveal a Green, BB8 barrel roll, PtL to grab a focus, maneuver, TL or Boost after maneuver. Yay 3 actions and 0 stress.

Red Ace can do 4 or more, you can figure that one out by yourself hopefully.

PTL BB8 does not come any where near this nonsense:

"Manaroo: focus

Asajj: [has focus from Mindlink]: either target lock or evade

Fenn: [has focus from Mindlink]: either target lock or boost/barrel roll, occasionally double up on focus.

Manaroo: passes a focus to either Asajj or Fenn (whoever is getting attacked), then gets one back via Mindlink.

Asajj: gain a free evade via stress mechanic and Latts."

Don't forget to give PTL+BB8 Poe the Black One title and he's stripping up to two target locks a round as well.

You are comparing a single ship to an entire squad. Three ships that all have a way to get a second action (or something equivalent to an action) fall just short of what you described but are still in the ballpark. Put Dengar (crew) and Expertise on the same ship and you've got a ship with similar action efficiency to whichever ship Manaroo passes tokens to but it's not dependent on any other ship in your squad.

Ships in Attani Mindlik squads get weaker once the other ships start to get eliminated.

Poe getting 3 actions? Please tell me how b/c I've been doing in wrong. Rey 3 actions? Wow! How?! Red Ace three actions? That's quite amazing. Really it is. (Were it true.)

Reveal a Green, BB8 barrel roll, PtL to grab a focus, maneuver, TL or Boost after maneuver. Yay 3 actions and 0 stress.

Red Ace can do 4 or more, you can figure that one out by yourself hopefully.

PTL BB8 does not come any where near this nonsense:

"Manaroo: focus

Asajj: [has focus from Mindlink]: either target lock or evade

Fenn: [has focus from Mindlink]: either target lock or boost/barrel roll, occasionally double up on focus.

Manaroo: passes a focus to either Asajj or Fenn (whoever is getting attacked), then gets one back via Mindlink.

Asajj: gain a free evade via stress mechanic and Latts."

/sarcasm on

Asajj Fennaroo does not come any where near this nonsense:

Starkiller Base Pilot: Coordinate on Ryad

Ryad: Focus/TL/BR from Coordinate, PtL to do Focus/TL/BR, do a green 3-5 K-Turn, get a free evade, clear stress, do Focus/TL/BR

Vessery: Do a 3+ maneuver, get free evade, do Focus/BR, get free TL from Ryad, Juke enemy w/ evade token

/sarcasm off

Anyone can make up stupid synergies. Stop playing bad lists that don't have a lot of action economy. You shouldn't expect to win in sports tournaments if you have inferior equipment and are poorly prepared (out of shape), why should you win a gaming tournament when you have an inferior list and are therefore similarly poorly prepared?

edit: Added /sarcasm just in case...

To perhaps get this topic back on track, here's a question for all you experts:

It was stated earlier in this thread that one of the best lists to fly against Fennassajaroo is RAC gunner, hotshot, vader (plus VI, engine?) which fits nicely with a standard Ryad.

Is that list going to come unstuck against anything in particular?

To perhaps get this topic back on track, here's a question for all you experts:

It was stated earlier in this thread that one of the best lists to fly against Fennassajaroo is RAC gunner, hotshot, vader (plus VI, engine?) which fits nicely with a standard Ryad.

Is that list going to come unstuck against anything in particular?

I think this list is good against palp aces too. it just strips tokens ! I think it fares well in the actual meta.

*a meta that might change a little bit because of the new ships coming out in 2 weeks.*

What is unstuck in this context?

If it is the opposite of doing well, ive seen it get absolutely wrecked by dengaroo (orc variant)

ive personally wrecked it repteadly with mindlink xizor (3 focus, motherfucker, come at me!) but that has a 4lom torp scput and feedback manny so the poor defender/ace just evaporates

And my BARCs, because 1 agi v gunner makes me laugh

Also ARC title and Biggs

So Masajj Fenntress is at least as capable as that xizor silliness AND aces haye asajj, especially vader

I too have a question to those that play Parattani alot.

In my mind the best defense is to Arc dodge, and the way I use Fenn Rau at ps9, I usually end up behind opponents. I feel it's safer. Some games the title does not even proc once.

And i'm always thinking why shouldnt I slap Unhindge Astromec on manaroo instead ? When manaroo ends up stressed I feel I can get her out of trouble easier with these 3-Speed greens. what do you think ?

And just to add my 2 cents on the list bashing that is going on; I for one enjoy flying parattani. It's 3 pilots that I like individually, but never dared to put them in the same list just because I usually tend to load them up with more upgrades. To me this list is very ''bare bones'', but once I tried it I loved it. It never felt auto-win to me.

I too have a question to those that play Parattani alot.

In my mind the best defense is to Arc dodge, and the way I use Fenn Rau at ps9, I usually end up behind opponents. I feel it's safer. Some games the title does not even proc once.

And i'm always thinking why shouldnt I slap Unhindge Astromec on manaroo instead ? When manaroo ends up stressed I feel I can get her out of trouble easier with these 3-Speed greens. what do you think ?

I've only played Parattani a few times but I've played Jumpmasters a lot and Fenn Rau a decent amount. The title doesn't trigger for me very often, but when it does it is usually a life saver. The extra greens on Manaroo are nice to have but I can't think of many times that having those three speed greens was clutch on a Jumpmaster.

Your results may vary. I tend to get kind of YOLO with Fenn when I'm not in the mood to be all tricksy and dodgy. I'm rarely in a tricksy and dodgy mood. The title gives the best sort of green die, it always comes up as an evade and it can't be Zuckussed away.

This. Commonly known as 'Paratanni', which isn't a very descriptive name. It's VERY good.

The list's godfather is crashing on my sofa tonight as we're heading to Dublin regionals tomorrow. Closest encounter with a celebrity I'll ever get without an ASBO / restraining order.

Both from facing and using them, im more afraid of Asajj than i am Fenn. Especially if Fenn doesnt have PTL, since without boost and barrelroll he can be dodged, just extra punishing if you fumble. Asajj's arc and stress is significantly harder to dodge, plus the speed makes it hard to catch after the initial pass.

To perhaps get this topic back on track, here's a question for all you experts:

It was stated earlier in this thread that one of the best lists to fly against Fennassajaroo is RAC gunner, hotshot, vader (plus VI, engine?) which fits nicely with a standard Ryad.

Is that list going to come unstuck against anything in particular?

Rey + Norra/Lothal will tear RAC a new one. Blue Squad, Thug Life (both BLT and TLT variants), B-Wing spam, TLT Wardens. Basically hotcop RAC will dumpster things with 4 health or less that are expensive, but he really really doesn't like going up against things that can dish out the pain that are either cheap, high health, or both. Palp Defenders is probably a game. Dengaroo will rip it apart. Triple Defender is probably in favor of the 3 Defenders, but it wouldn't be by much.

Stress is rarely a problem for Parattani. You have better action economy than most lists as long as 1 in 3 ships can take a focus action. The only way I can see stress being troublesome is all 3 ships got double stressed somehow. Yes, occasionally stress may force you to take a slightly less than ideal move now and then, but the Protectorate/Lancer/Jumpmaster dials are excellent at shedding stress.

Parrattani is one of those 'perfect storm' lists, where the right ingredients exist to make a true monster. Still, it can be beaten, and it requires some good flying to play it well.

Maasajj Fenntress

I'm partial to Manattanni myself; a portmanteau of the two critical parts.

It's Mantress with just Manaroo as Asajj.

Preface: I don't play this game anymore because to me the design turned crap around wave four or five. But I check back here in hopes that one day it will get better. So I tune in to discussions like this alot.

I read the first few pages this morning and wanted to think about the issue before responding. The issue being of this or is it not an NPE. My first reaction was no, of course not. But while I'm playing Armada and looking over at the tables next to me that have this list going to town on someone, the more I thought about it was yeah, it really is.

As the OP pointed out it gives the opponent a set of all bad choices. That seems great to the guy playing it. I use to try to do the same thing with builds, and the whole point of the game is to do the same with your flying technique. But that does cause an absolutely negative experience. Because we are gamers and we like to logic out optimal avenues to a given objective. When there isn't an somewhat mostly optimal solution, even one that requires serious expenditure of game resources, there is no reward to be gained to satisfy that gamer drive to play.

The statement that it gives a set of all bad choices, at the bottom line, is synonymous to the ability to make your opponent's decision wrong. Which as we all know it's why the phantom was broken and required that errata.

In conclusion, I would agree that this type of list design is another symptom of the games seriously and increasingly broken state.

Preface: I don't play this game anymore because to me the design turned crap around wave four or five. But I check back here in hopes that one day it will get better. So I tune in to discussions like this alot.

I read the first few pages this morning and wanted to think about the issue before responding. The issue being of this or is it not an NPE. My first reaction was no, of course not. But while I'm playing Armada and looking over at the tables next to me that have this list going to town on someone, the more I thought about it was yeah, it really is.

As the OP pointed out it gives the opponent a set of all bad choices. That seems great to the guy playing it. I use to try to do the same thing with builds, and the whole point of the game is to do the same with your flying technique. But that does cause an absolutely negative experience. Because we are gamers and we like to logic out optimal avenues to a given objective. When there isn't an somewhat mostly optimal solution, even one that requires serious expenditure of game resources, there is no reward to be gained to satisfy that gamer drive to play.

The statement that it gives a set of all bad choices, at the bottom line, is synonymous to the ability to make your opponent's decision wrong. Which as we all know it's why the phantom was broken and required that errata.

In conclusion, I would agree that this type of list design is another symptom of the games seriously and increasingly broken state.

So an obvious and universal "best choice" would make for a better game? Which ship to priotize in a list like this is going to come down to what you are playing against it, and the way that you play. If prioritization was cut and dried, X-Wing would be less interesting

It's a good list that doesn't have big weaknesses. It's not unbeatable and I think that most squads that would be competitive against the current meta have the all the tools needed to win against it.

I think it might eventually get the same nerf as deadeye and make it small ship only.

meh, I'd much rather see manny be limited to range 1-2 first

dengaroo is an infinitely less fun experience

I think it might eventually get the same nerf as deadeye and make it small ship only.

Why make Mindlink small ship only? It doesn't make much sense to make a card that comes with a ship unusable with that ship. Especially since the only large ship pilot that really gives people fits with it is the pilot that it was obviously intended to be used with.

Just make it unique. Problem solved.

I think it might eventually get the same nerf as deadeye and make it small ship only.

Why make Mindlink small ship only? It doesn't make much sense to make a card that comes with a ship unusable with that ship. Especially since the only large ship pilot that really gives people fits with it is the pilot that it was obviously intended to be used with.

Just make it unique. Problem solved.

I think it might eventually get the same nerf as deadeye and make it small ship only.

Why make Mindlink small ship only? It doesn't make much sense to make a card that comes with a ship unusable with that ship. Especially since the only large ship pilot that really gives people fits with it is the pilot that it was obviously intended to be used with.

Just make it unique. Problem solved.

Make it unique when 2 ships need to have it for it to do anything? Surely you're trolling.

i have a question: exist a alternative version of Parattani?

I thinking about at this version:

Palob: attani, autoblaster turret, cloacking device, stygium particel accelerator

Ventress: attani, dengar

Fenn: attani, title, at

palob guaranteed a focus every turn and can be very annoying due to his ability, big defence with cloacking and stygium, and some anti-ace offensive with autoblaster.

ventress has more offensive capabilities

fenn is the same

thought?

i have a question: exist a alternative version of Parattani?

I thinking about at this version:

Palob: attani, autoblaster turret, cloacking device, stygium particel accelerator

Ventress: attani, dengar

Fenn: attani, title, at

palob guaranteed a focus every turn and can be very annoying due to his ability, big defence with cloacking and stygium, and some anti-ace offensive with autoblaster.

ventress has more offensive capabilities

fenn is the same

thought?

Latts is way too good over Dengar and losing Manaroo kinda defeats the whole purpose. If you want a more offense oriented Mindlink build just play Old Fennaroo, the Manaroo in that build actually has teeth.

edit: Forgot to quote.

The one sure thing about Parattanni is, don't target Asajj first. Asajj is way to tanky.

Preferably kill Fenn first as he has the highest damage output potential and doesn't have Latts or evade tokens like Asajj does. If the opponent plays safe with Fenn, cause you're are trying to kill him, go ahead and kill Manaroo. Asajj only has 3-attack so he can be reasonably ignored if you can prevent him from getting range 1 shots.

I specifically have designed some aspects of my list to counter this one. Mainly having my own PS9 ace and any sort of initiative bid. It makes killing Fenn way easier.

When one list shows up and is able to have multiple token stacked ships whie your pitiful list has a single action per ship (like how the game was designed) it is an NPE.

You've just essentially described almost every competitively successful squad for several waves. There are a few exceptions but almost everything that does well consistently does it through stacking modifiers.

Yeah I know. Don't you think that's really ****? I do.

All this potential diversity and thrilling manuevering only it doesn't mean **** unless you're also playing Push The Limit and stacking loads of modifiers because THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO THE GAME AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS WINDOW DRESSING.