I know that some people like this change and others dislike it, but if we could table that discussion for now, I'd like to start a fresh discussion on strategy and how this change has altered the game.

The obvious effect is on multi-figure deployments and how they are played. Reinforcements are now no longer a given (giving potentially 20 points for one eStormies group, if playing against Jabba, is daunting). More interestingly, it is now no longer needed to split up your units like before. Since point denial no longer works (other than not getting killed), it is better, IMO, to group your figures from a deployment together so that they can focus fire on a single figure when activated, unless they're objective grabbing or sitting on terminals.

Conversely, when playing against troopers, I now would want to attack troopers from different deployments more, rather than focus on one. I'd rather face two different activations of one trooper than one activation with two, since it gives me a chance to respond, or potentially to kill the other trooper before he has a chance to activate.

Other considerations I've mused about is pertaining to squad building. Is it more advantageous for me to take Sabs, who grant 4 points to my opponent, while only costing me 3.5 per figure of my allotted 40 deployment points? Or does this make units like snowtroopers better, since they net my opponent one fewer point (he gains 6 points for my 7 cost in deployment)? I'm not sure.

Any other changes you have noticed? How do you think this change will reshape strategy (other than making trooper spam less dominant)?

-ryanjamal

I think it was designed to change what we play. The rule change steers us towards unique figures that can take a couple of hits or more elite type 2 figure deployment cards like elite Heavy Troopers, elite EchoBT, elite Rangers who all have substantially more health than the average 3 figure card. I think there are other ways to make victory points now as well, which may come into play more. Smuggler's Run, Black Market, command cards that usually weren't played. Maybe a focus more on objectives as well as cheap upgrades that enhance a figure's attack to make sure that damage gets through.

I think it may cause games to go a little faster, just because there will be less figures on the board.

The unfortunate side effect, is that several figures or groups of figures will probably never be seen again in a competitive setting. This has happened already with some figures, but why would you ever take Loku or Mak or even Leia is endangered, one bad roll and she's near death. You almost want the high health, cheap point cost figures only as half or more of the current figures could be "one-shot" off the board by the other, more common unique figures.

Yeah, I was really excited about the newest wave for Scum, but then I realized that I essentially had to say goodbye to Leia. I think she's too squishy for all of the attacks out there that can push through 8 damage.

-ryanjamal

I wonder if this will push some of the older and less playable uniques (or "big guys" like AT-STs) into the picture. Looking at the group of Boba, Vader and Chewbacca for instance. These three have enourmous defensive capabilities (and you've tied a lot of points into them, that your opponent has a hard time getting). Meanwhile, what used to really hold them back was the fact that they'd never clear a non-unique deployment card - but perhaps now they don't have to. Each time Chewie or Vader use their powerful attacks to kill off a figure, you get points. Less so with Boba, as his attack is less powerful, however, with his recover, he may be even harder to kill than those two as well as his enourmous speed to hunt down weaker or weakened figures.

I wonder if this will push some of the older and less playable uniques (or "big guys" like AT-STs) into the picture. Looking at the group of Boba, Vader and Chewbacca for instance. These three have enourmous defensive capabilities (and you've tied a lot of points into them, that your opponent has a hard time getting). Meanwhile, what used to really hold them back was the fact that they'd never clear a non-unique deployment card - but perhaps now they don't have to. Each time Chewie or Vader use their powerful attacks to kill off a figure, you get points. Less so with Boba, as his attack is less powerful, however, with his recover, he may be even harder to kill than those two as well as his enourmous speed to hunt down weaker or weakened figures.

I wish this were the case, but any decent or up-to-date list should be able to deal with these threats easily. I tried to play Chewie a while back and even with his defense, I lost him in one half a turn of shooting. He just doesn't hold up, Vader and AT-ST can even be worse, I've seen an ATST take 9 damage from Bossk, it's not that hard to roll double 1 blocks. Vader is the same way, just pricier and melee. They really need their points adjusted. Boba Fett at least has mobility and his defense built in (no roll) but his stupidly-written ability actually cripples him. If he takes a few hits, he has to recover 2 instead of putting the hurt on and wracking up points, so most of the time he'll lose that scenario.

Too early to tell at this stage... but generally, if it does promote the use of uniques or more expensive figures.... that's a good thing. However, I fear that already good unique figures (like Luke, Obi-wan, Bossk etc...) get even better.
The change does make some of the expensive stuff more viable because they can at least make some of their points back and are a good source of points denial.

I do think however that it will promote more defensive play with troopers (if people still use them). They aren't throw away units anymore. They can't be used as shields or bait for free. People will attack them now because they are worth points. Before, it was a tough call to use attacks against a unit that's hard to score from and can bring 2 guys back to life. I agree that was probably too strong, but I think they got hit too hard, especially with all the other anti-trooper stuff in the last few waves.

And as other's have stated, quite a few figures become even worse now. You could argue that the ones who a worth more to your opponent than the card deployment cost are a little bit less desirable. Pretty much all the regular troopers are useless though admittedly no one used them anyway.

3 figure groups certainly have an advantage, but unlike single figures, they get weaker as the group takes damage. Bossk is still a massive threat with one health left...1 elite storm trooper isn't that scary anymore.

Too early to tell at this stage... but generally, if it does promote the use of uniques or more expensive figures.... that's a good thing. However, I fear that already good unique figures (like Luke, Obi-wan, Bossk etc...) get even better.

The change does make some of the expensive stuff more viable because they can at least make some of their points back and are a good source of points denial.

I do think however that it will promote more defensive play with troopers (if people still use them). They aren't throw away units anymore. They can't be used as shields or bait for free. People will attack them now because they are worth points. Before, it was a tough call to use attacks against a unit that's hard to score from and can bring 2 guys back to life. I agree that was probably too strong, but I think they got hit too hard, especially with all the other anti-trooper stuff in the last few waves.

And as other's have stated, quite a few figures become even worse now. You could argue that the ones who a worth more to your opponent than the card deployment cost are a little bit less desirable. Pretty much all the regular troopers are useless though admittedly no one used them anyway.

3 figure groups certainly have an advantage, but unlike single figures, they get weaker as the group takes damage. Bossk is still a massive threat with one health left...1 elite storm trooper isn't that scary anymore.

dude this thread was only for people without pictures. We shouldn't be here...

The reverse may be true in some lists, I used to look at people running regular alliance smugglers as crazy because the elite had better health, better surges, better abilities, and movement until I saw how useful it was to have a small,cheap figure count as an extra activation, someone to hold a terminal, that was expendable. Lists will still need something like this, why not find a cheap regular trooper unit that can go bait, contest objectives and all those other things, if they're going to die, they might as well give up as few points as possible. There might be some use to the regular troopers in some lists

Not a trooper, but regular Tusken Raiders come to mind, as they are pretty tough, only 2pts a pop, and have a scent attack if they need to

I never leave home without some cheap objective grabbers. Smugglers, officers, hired guns, ugnaughts etc.... are all great.

Too often people look at some abilities or what dice are in an attack and instantly poo-poo a unit.

They don't consider what role that units fits. The role is more important than the damage output.

Hired guns don't kill much, the thing they do best is die. BUT, they are very cheap, very fast, and people hate wasting attacks to kill them (especially since they can shoot back).

They (just like the smuggler) are great for grabbing/contesting terminals and objectives.

It's the reason why no one uses elite smugglers and elite hired guns. They cost more but don't really do their role any better. The smuggler maybe because he get's faster and his movement abilities get better. But the point is, the role of the unit is the same. There's not point taking something more expensive to just is up the back.

That's why C3PO is so good. A focus is nice, and his distracting ability is sometimes handy, but he can't attack at all, is slow and need to be adjacent for all his abilities. So why take him? He's bloody cheap. He does one thing and he does it well, for little cost.

Conversely, it's why units like Mak, Loku and Murne don't get much play time. They are attackers but just don't do that job well.

When people complain about over costed units. I don't look at the abilities or damage. I look at what role/purpose a unit fills. Vader isn't just an expensive beat stick. He's also got line of sight range with unmitigated damage (force choke) and he's huge points denial. On top of that, he's very imposing and sometimes people are scared of him. Sometimes the psychological aspect is important. I've seen experienced players underestimate units like Vader, Han, RGC and AT-ST because of a preconceived notion that they are uncompetitive or over costed.

Riffing off Inquisitorsz: Looking ahead at Jawas, I'm excited for Scum to have a 2 point unit of their own to serve as objective grabbers. Having a few low impact units to pad out lists is really important for making a balanced list of at least 6 groups and Scum has long had trouble in this area. 2 Points to open doors and grab objectives is super useful (not 3PO useful but he's unique).

As for the OP question, I think the new rule will bring balance to the force by making single-figure groups with uniques much more common. Every faction has good Uniques now and there's just a lot more viable list building options when you add in the recent large wave from Jabba's Realm. The variety will make the games more interesting and lest repetitive. This is just echoing what others have said so I think the changes are pretty obvious to all off us and lets hope there no best-list anytime soon.

One thing I was considering today, was the impact of conditions might have again. Even stuff like Weaken, which sucked as you would normally kill the dude anyway, but now that more durable higher cost dudes might be played, Stun and Weaken and Bleeding might be worth a bit more. Hell, might even try out Dengar again

Go home aermet69, you're drunk.

Seriously though, I think seeing two Trooper lists in the finals at Worlds is what shook the cage of FFG. They realized that they needed to change things to promote a variety of lists. Don't get me wrong, I love the variety we do have, but the highest level of play will dictate the rules for the rest of us as that is what they are focused on. I would love to see a Scum list in the finals next year, I think this change is a step towards that happening.

We just tested the new rules yesterday. There still is point denial, positioning etc. It's just on the figure level now and not on the squad level anymore. In my opinion, you need more skill to do it now.

I always played regular Stormtroopers or Hired Guns for Terminals, Objectives etc., one of them Standing back, so the opponent doesn't get any points for my cannonfodder. This won't be possible anymore.

Elite Sabs got a little worse, because the opponent gets more points for them and they are too squishy for that.

High health figures will see a little bit more play.

Apart from that, I don't see much Change coming ...

Apart from that, I don't see much Change coming ...

Which I think is actually fine. The game was already in a good place, and looking to become better with JR. So it's fine if this actually doesn't chance a whole lot.

I think I'll be adding Celebration to my command deck in some cases now, whereas I never did before, but that's also helped by Jabba's Nefarious Gains enhancements.

I love reading all this "everything will be so open and free now" before people realize in a few months that the trooper lists were just all replaced with jabba/weequays etc.

I think I'll be adding Celebration to my command deck in some cases now, whereas I never did before, but that's also helped by Jabba's Nefarious Gains enhancements.

Price on their Heads in several Hunter themed lists is worth it as well. That's almost 10pts with Jabba if you pick a single figure unique card as your target.

I haven't played around with the Black Market stuff enough to see how easy that is to do.

Trooper lists will still be strong. The biggest thing to change is that now you won't automatically play Reinforcements when you draw it; you'll make a strategic decision based on the game state.

I wish this were the case, but any decent or up-to-date list should be able to deal with these threats easily. I tried to play Chewie a while back and even with his defense, I lost him in one half a turn of shooting. He just doesn't hold up, Vader and AT-ST can even be worse, I've seen an ATST take 9 damage from Bossk, it's not that hard to roll double 1 blocks. Vader is the same way, just pricier and melee. They really need their points adjusted. Boba Fett at least has mobility and his defense built in (no roll) but his stupidly-written ability actually cripples him. If he takes a few hits, he has to recover 2 instead of putting the hurt on and wracking up points, so most of the time he'll lose that scenario.

I once rolled two evades on Chewbacca.

I never leave home without some cheap objective grabbers. Smugglers, officers, hired guns, ugnaughts etc.... are all great.

Too often people look at some abilities or what dice are in an attack and instantly poo-poo a unit.

They don't consider what role that units fits. The role is more important than the damage output.

Hired guns don't kill much, the thing they do best is die. BUT, they are very cheap, very fast, and people hate wasting attacks to kill them (especially since they can shoot back).

They (just like the smuggler) are great for grabbing/contesting terminals and objectives.

It's the reason why no one uses elite smugglers and elite hired guns. They cost more but don't really do their role any better. The smuggler maybe because he get's faster and his movement abilities get better. But the point is, the role of the unit is the same. There's not point taking something more expensive to just is up the back.

That's why C3PO is so good. A focus is nice, and his distracting ability is sometimes handy, but he can't attack at all, is slow and need to be adjacent for all his abilities. So why take him? He's bloody cheap. He does one thing and he does it well, for little cost.

Conversely, it's why units like Mak, Loku and Murne don't get much play time. They are attackers but just don't do that job well.

When people complain about over costed units. I don't look at the abilities or damage. I look at what role/purpose a unit fills. Vader isn't just an expensive beat stick. He's also got line of sight range with unmitigated damage (force choke) and he's huge points denial. On top of that, he's very imposing and sometimes people are scared of him. Sometimes the psychological aspect is important. I've seen experienced players underestimate units like Vader, Han, RGC and AT-ST because of a preconceived notion that they are uncompetitive or over costed.

I think this change is an exciting restart for the game, where roles of units are going to be more clearly defined. It should make the games much faster, because if you complete a mission objective or two, then you are only a few kills away from hitting 40, instead of going to time and winning 32-25.

I saw upwards in this thread where Leia won't be as useful because at 8 Health she's an easy snipe piece. I think she will just have to be played a bit different now, where she steps up, pops off a long ranged shot, lets someone else shoot, manipulates the command deck and then she fades in behind some meat shields.

I can't wait to get some figs on the table today to see how this plays out!

Yeah, I also don't get why a unique figure should be worth less because of the new rule. Rules didn't change for them.

Yeah, I also don't get why a unique figure should be worth less because of the new rule. Rules didn't change for them.

-ryanjamal

I'm still waiting for that Campaign cross-over upgrade "steel boots" or "laser-proof armor" that can only be applied to certain unique characters allowing for +3 health and may add 1 block once per round. Rebel Only

Can someone pls tell me where i can find this change? I looked at FaQ but cant find anything. Thanks for response.

5 minutes ago, Guest Wertup said:

Can someone pls tell me where i can find this change? I looked at FaQ but cant find anything. Thanks for response.

It's in the tourney rules, not the FAQ. The FAQ hasn't been updated since last summer IIRC.