FFG please don't allow all these rules lawyers influence the corse of this game.

Keep it simple, don't let it be twisted.

We haven't even had but a chance to fully enjoy it yet or see your vision come to light. I'm sure you have to have a room full of lawyers to proof read every card for X-Wing by now. I'm also sure that it wasn't the intention to let it get so far out of hand. I know that it's good to listen to the fans (to a point) but OMG some of these rules lawyers are already getting their torches and pitchforks. Let's try to have fun and please have a little bit of respect for others.

While I sympathise with your plea, the simple reality is that FFG design fantastic games, but with rules made out of a sieve.

With however many years under their belt before they brought out x-wing 4 years ago it was a minor annoyance with the considerable number of holes in the rules for that game when it came out. With each new wave they appear to perpetuate the same problems of sloppy grammar templating that constantly create significant arguments, one only need to look at the discussions on the FFG rules sub-forum on the x-wing page. It has now gotten to the point that even though some items may appear clear enough people have become so weary of the potential outcomes that players constantly demand FAQ answers on every little thing.

Don’t even get me started on the horrendous amendment to the way points are scored in the latest Imperial Assault FAQ.

Having said that, the fact that people are picking holes in the rules tells you that there is a thirst for players to play the game, which drives growth. What can stunt growth however is poorly worded rules that have ambiguous wording or potential double meaning, which can lead to rules lawyers manipulating the rules over less experienced players.

While the rules for the game appear to be OK people are naturally going to compare it to MTG. the Rules for MTG are virtually watertight, clear and concise (in my opinion at least) with very little ambiguity that isn't clarified somewhere. (having said that the official MTG tournament rules are considerably larger that Destiny's)

FFG need to pick up their game if you really want to push out the loophole players and the game manipulators and the rules they publish need to be crystal clear.

wot

Wait a minute Ozmodon, aren't you the one who is always complaining about the rules and saying "this isn't magic!"? Why are you complaining about rules lawyers when you yourself are one? Your posts always seem to confuse me. I'm all for keeping it fun and simple as long as you mean it.

I mean everything I say. I try to look at things from both sides and say what others will not. But hey let's attack me personally and not address what was said.

My point still stands. Your posts are always screaming some apocalyptic end of the game in some cryptic hard to understand way. This time it is about a wealth of rules lawyers ruining the game? Not sure about anyone else but I haven't noticed a ridiculous amount of rules lawyers. Is your problem with people simply asking for rule clarifications on ambiguous situations? Seems reasonable to me for people to ask questions about rules but apparently it isn't to you?

My point exactly, you just painted me as cryptic and screaming. While yourself as reasonable. Everyone gets an opinion and no one deserves to be belittled for asking a question or having an opinion.

Make this fun.

I think you must be thinking of RPGs.

CCG's are nothing but rules. A rulebook provides a framework of rules for cards that operate by rules, and have little new rules printed on them that sometimes contradict the rulebook entirely. How exactly do you design a card game with no rules?

Did I miss something? What is this all about?

I only go play Destiny for the evening and I come back to this. Can you point me (or to others that don't know what this is all about) to where (which thread exactly) the rule lawyers are already getting their torches and pitchforks, because I think I missed it.

"I'm not sure how to put this."

We're not sure how to interpret this. What a coincidence.

Y'all are being pretty weird about this. I guess coming from a perspective that I'm never going to play competitively and all my friends are pretty low-key about rules lawyering, a lot of these debates seem quite academic to me.

And here we go again. Which ruling are you angry about this time?

In my experience rules discussion is a good thing, this is exactly the place for it.

I would also add, that for the most part we are all on the same side, we all want this game to do well and continue to do well.

My point exactly, you just painted me as cryptic and screaming. While yourself as reasonable. Everyone gets an opinion and no one deserves to be belittled for asking a question or having an opinion.

You're not being belittled for asking a question. You didn't ask any questions! You, instead, said something very cryptic and people are trying to figure out what it is you're worried about.

If you see something bad about the rules, say it. don't say "don't even get me started on ____." You started a thread complaining about... something... *you* got you started.

well this was an easy block for the day.

In my most polite and respectful tone:

This is not Yathtzee - there is more to this game than rolling out dice to see who won. There are going to be different combinations of events/upgrades/effects that make for interesting / odd / broken / crazy / fun game states and plays. Part of the fun is learning what those are, applying them to a deck and strategy and seeing how it goes. All games have some text/wording that 'could have been better stated' and unfortunately that is just part of the game. We need to learn what those are and understand how they play out. If casual play is more your thing then don't stress about those things as much, just enjoy it as you see fit. If you want to play at tournaments and maybe advance up the tiers of play you need to become familiar with (and probably use) some of those strategies.

Cheers!

FFG please don't allow all these rules lawyers influence the corse of this game.

Keep it simple, don't let it be twisted.

We haven't even had but a chance to fully enjoy it yet or see your vision come to light. I'm sure you have to have a room full of lawyers to proof read every card for X-Wing by now. I'm also sure that it wasn't the intention to let it get so far out of hand. I know that it's good to listen to the fans (to a point) but OMG some of these rules lawyers are already getting their torches and pitchforks. Let's try to have fun and please have a little bit of respect for others.

Anyone that thinks a FFG game developer even thinks about (let alone reads) these forums is kidding themselves.

So, I'm going to make up numbers and say that 95%+ of the players use common sense and interpret the cards/rules exactly as the authors intended. Of the remainder, the majority might misinterpret the rules, but will simply seek clarity from a tournament organizer or opponent and move on with the game.

...then there are those who misinterpret the intent of the rules or actively look for loopholes to exploit. These players are the ones who will argue endlessly online about nit picked details. These are the 'rules lawyers'. Thankfully, they're few and far between... unless you frequent internet forums and then you'll see them almost every day.

Pointless thread is pointless.

Here is the bottom line. Card games of this type need to behave consistently in order to work. That means they are built a lot like computer program. You create a system of rules, and then create the actual cards ( inputs), and those cards do things (outputs). Sometimes you get odd or complicated outputs. These things are what is being complained about. (Cunning is responsible for more than it's fair share). This is the nature of things. OP has no specific complaint other than that things work in a way they don't appreciate. All card games are designed this way. (Except maybe pokemon. That has a lot less interaction. But it's also a lot less interesting, as a a game system)