Hello,

I want to know your opinions on how to prepare for our first match... The problem is that one of our rebels admirals have to confront against a super extreme Rhymerball Motti... In my opinion we are not prepared for a campaign with a extreme list like that...

Rebels are attacking on a Hiperlane Raid mission, so rebels have initiative.

Rebel Sato List:

- 3 MC30 scout with Ordinance Experts, 1 MC80 command cruiser with Sato and reinforced doors.

- Suporting 3 esq:

2 AW

Ticho.

Imperial Motti List:

- 1 Gozanti with Motti and Slicer Tools, 1 Gozanti with BCC, 1 ISD I with boosted comms, and 1 Gladiator with demolisher tittle.

- Supporting 9 esq:

Rhymer,

Dengar,

Maarek Steel

2 Tie Adv

Tempest

Jendon

2 Tie Bomber

I'm trying to help my teammate with my best advice's... If I were the defender, only see 3 ways to approach this confrontation: One, accept the superiority, hide in a corner an save the ships; two, launch the 3 mc30 on a suicide attack at the same time in order to drop the ISD in one turn; or attack from different directions making the enemy spread squadrons and get a opportunistic kill with a flotilla or demolisher...

Help me Armada community, you are my only hope (Leia hologram off)

PD: The imperial player is good with squadrons... we though we would play more plain lists...

FINAL UPDATE:

Just to report: We, the Rebels, lost on a miseble way, so miserable an unepic, that better not to explain. Almiralls not in flotillas, and the rymer, demolisher nerf came late for us.

Anyway I hope to see mote campaigns

I don't see you winning that matchup. You don't have activation advntage, firepower advantage and will get monstered by those squadrons. That Sato list is really awkward. Nowhere near enough squadrons to be competitive and I can see what he's going for with the MC30s but the whole thing is unbalanced with a huge investment in a trick he won't get to use. Too many things needing to go at specific times to be useful etc.

Well, thoughts that come to mind:

1) Forget Sato - with only three squadrons you're unlikely to activate him (if you do, then that's a bonus - get more squads for him next campaign round)

2) Use the 3 A-wings to tie up the Rhymer ball as much as possible

3) Send in the MC30s fast to hit and run - they're the hammers

4) leave the MC80 behind in the middle of the playing area to finish off ships as they come to it (it's the anvil)

5) If you can tie up the ball long enough for the win, great! If, however, you are losing ships, try to take some with you (to score the sweet resources) and get the heck out of dodge.

I agree with beefcake that the list is awkward. However, with initiative for the rebels Demolisher isn't nearly as scary as it is when the Imperial is first player. The MC30s hit hard, so shoot first and run away, then repeat as necessary. That's how I'd play it, anyway.

You don't have enough air protection. And the Rhymer threat range is pretty large, especially on the long deployment edge.

You could hyper out when you have the chance at least and lose nothing but victory points. Otherwise, I'd try Speed 4'ing the MC30s across the board to try getting them to where they need to be as fast as possible, while feeding the A-Wings one at a time into the bomber ball in such a way that Dengar can only cover one of them, if not activating to pounce and kill Dengar ASAP.

Yeah, they've got you good this go-around with this matchup.

Best case scenario, try to create a "death zone" with the MC30s and MC80 such that any enemy fighter getting into medium range one one target, eats 2-3 anti-squadron batteries from the other ships you have. Then maybe you can opportunistically pick off one or two before your A-Wings drop.

The bigger problem here is that you have to be on the offensive, so he can afford to sit back and wait if you're not going to rush him and run out the clock. Your other hope then is to hit his carriers so hard that they pop, stranding his bombers. This is made hard by the fact that his carriers are Gozantis and an ISD. Still, you can Sato in some blues for the Gozantis (keep Tycho safe for this), and your MC80 is great at hunting those things. The ISD is going to be difficult, but a couple of MC30s first / lasting (or sort of lasting) it could do enough damage to drop it.

Demolisher is going to come for you, but it is on defense. Try and herd it somewhere you can finish it off after it pounces.

You may not win, but your goal now is to pick up as many points as you can, and limit your damage. Don't be afraid to hyperspace a full health MC30 making its bombing run (and thus will be out of the fight) if you think it is going to get bombed to hell. Two enemy ships destroyed and you "break even" even if you lose the overall fight (40 to you for ships and 40 to them for the win).

They dumped a lot of the Imperials' best tricks into one fleet. Motti, Rhymer, and Demolisher. So that is going to be the toughest fleet. It also means the other Imperial fleets are probably weaker. Focus on winning the other 2 and minimizing damage here.

For the game itself:

- Try to delay engagement. Buy time and either kite the fleet or make your suicide run no earlier than turn 4.

- Remember that you can warp out.

- Play to the campaign and not just the match.

- While kiting or delaying, see if he bites with Demo and try to kill that. That is the only ship that might leap forward.

- As always, try to flank the ISD if combat must happen.

Good thread. Good asking for help.

..... thank you for the 1ISD Gladiator + Rhymerball I needed to crush my opponents dreams with. List.

*evil

This will be a question of very good timing in one decisive crucial turn.

The MC30's will have to charge in, in the same turn that the A-wings are committed to tie down the bomber fleet, Tycho will be crucial in this as he can hop about tying sqds up.

So a good tactic would be to have a sqd token on the MC30's, so when one is activated it can activate a A-wing that will tie down some sqds, outside intel range.

This means he has to use his next activation to either make a less effeective bombing attack or untie the sqds, by whiping out tthe A-wing.

Repeat the execice with the other two MC30 and A-wing Combo's

Have the MC30 Tycho combo activate as the third activation, as he can't be counter engaged.

Use the MC80 as damage absorbtion spamming away on Repair commands

Anyway this is what I would do on the fly.

Remember the Rhymerball itself can't kill more than one ship a turn, so loosing one MC30 in exchange for two MC30's to make an attack run each is proberly the price you must pay when playing a list like that..

Hehe it's hardly extreme. Pretty standard tbh.

* Deploy on the at 0 range not the full 10.

* Deploy in the middle because you will be out deployed

* See how they move, slow roll the MC80 and try to gank a ship like Demo if it pokes foward.

* Consider Hyperspace retreat everyone and use the 45 refit to unscar your Awings.

* Don't throw the Awings in too early, use them as a triangle to get around Intel

* Try to preserve your fleet! You need more squadrons and you'll need all the points you can get. You can afford to lose all Awings and 1 MC30 with a fair amount of points left over. Hopefully enough for 4-6 squadrons.

After Round 1:

* Get more squadrons

* Get more squadrons

Sounds like the Imperials have a ringer on their team who's really out for blood. He's got three of the Empire's nastiest tricks in one fleet: Rhymer, Demo, and Motti. Yeah, that'll be hard to overcome with only three squads.

So don't. Run away rather than getting tabled. You can use those savings that you would have spent on repairs to instead beef up your squads especially squads to assassinate the Rhymerball: E wings, Ketsu, Han, Ten Numb, Shara Bey. Throw in Toryn Farr, Flight Controllers.

Just get every advantage you can for next round.

Something to consider...it looks like this one Imperial list is using Motti, Rhymer and Demolisher. That's means the other two imperial fleets don't have any of those toys. Maybe write this one matchup off and try to lay into the other two Imperial fleets hard.

Edit: Just saw Church said pretty much the same thing. +1 to that.

Yep. This is a Campaign, not a Tournament. Play the Long Game.

I'd be aiming to keep all my ships away as much as possible. Starting at slow speeds of 1 or 2, store up nav tokens. Firing AS at his squads that come into range. Then when range is right, bump an MC30s speed up to 3 or 4 and rush into range of one his activated ships at my 4th activation (trying to avoid his 4th activation ship). Attack 1st and speed away next turn. Repeat that 2 more times with the other MC30s over the next 2 turns. Id be expecting to kill something with that. Then just avoid everything as much as possible. He has no boosted coms or relay. Hopefully once the MC30 get going speed 3 or 4, the bombers won't have enough turns of shooting each one to finish them. If one does get swamped, Id be prepared to burn it's redirects in one turn to save it.

Sounds like the Imperials have a ringer on their team who's really out for blood. He's got three of the Empire's nastiest tricks in one fleet: Rhymer, Demo, and Motti. Yeah, that'll be hard to overcome with only three squads.

So don't. Run away rather than getting tabled. You can use those savings that you would have spent on repairs to instead beef up your squads especially squads to assassinate the Rhymerball: E wings, Ketsu, Han, Ten Numb, Shara Bey. Throw in Toryn Farr, Flight Controllers.

Just get every advantage you can for next round.

Basically this.

It's one of the really neat tricks about the Corellian Conflict campaign - you don't have to win every battle. Some of them, indeed, you should very specifically look to just 'run out to time' and minimize your own losses...allowing your other fleets to hit the weaker enemies THEY are facing.

Then regroup for the next round!

Nothing wrong with that...indeed, that's basically the point of the campaign, and what makes it more interesting than 'tournament play'...

Sounds like the Imperials have a ringer on their team who's really out for blood. He's got three of the Empire's nastiest tricks in one fleet: Rhymer, Demo, and Motti. Yeah, that'll be hard to overcome with only three squads.

So don't. Run away rather than getting tabled. You can use those savings that you would have spent on repairs to instead beef up your squads especially squads to assassinate the Rhymerball: E wings, Ketsu, Han, Ten Numb, Shara Bey. Throw in Toryn Farr, Flight Controllers.

Just get every advantage you can for next round.

Basically this.

It's one of the really neat tricks about the Corellian Conflict campaign - you don't have to win every battle. Some of them, indeed, you should very specifically look to just 'run out to time' and minimize your own losses...allowing your other fleets to hit the weaker enemies THEY are facing.

Then regroup for the next round!

Nothing wrong with that...indeed, that's basically the point of the campaign, and what makes it more interesting than 'tournament play'...

Be a Grant, not a McClellan! Don't let the Emperor ask "If Motti is not busy with his fleet, I wonder if I could borrow it?"

Wow, that one list is stacked! We definitely tried to spread out the "good" uniques in our campaign. Looks like that imperial player might be hard to tackle, but the other ones might be less rough.

Gotta think like a rebel. I'd try luring the Gonzatis out of the protection of the ISD and hit them hard for the points, then run away. In order for the imperial player to get victory points he's gotta get his ships to your side so there's a chance he might not chase you. If he does decide to pursue then you can run the time down and hope to edge out a point victory, but as others have said you got to play the long game and not risk crippling your fleet.

He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day...

Yep. This is a Campaign, not a Tournament. Play the Long Game.

In this case, that Sato list is ... kinda dreadful.

Not to be a right pain but lets say this game takes 2 hours to play, 1 hour to set up, 1 hour to drive to and away from. 4 hours for this experience of running away for two hours.

Then I have to actually play with my beat up forces another match just to have a nice say... 52% possible chance of winning?, compared to a nearly like 70-80 chance of losing on the first match? (To be honest the Imp player looks a lot better set up than the Rebel list.)

Another 4 hours.

Is it really worth 8 hours of your time?

Yep. This is a Campaign, not a Tournament. Play the Long Game.

In this case, that Sato list is ... kinda dreadful.

Not to be a right pain but lets say this game takes 2 hours to play, 1 hour to set up, 1 hour to drive to and away from. 4 hours for this experience of running away for two hours.

Then I have to actually play with my beat up forces another match just to have a nice say... 52% possible chance of winning?, compared to a nearly like 70-80 chance of losing on the first match? (To be honest the Imp player looks a lot better set up than the Rebel list.)

Another 4 hours.

Is it really worth 8 hours of your time?

Entirely a possibility in the realm of a Campaign.

I mean, You have listed a 1 hour drive there.

I personally invest a 2+ hour Transit Trip. Each Way. To arrive before everyone else, to setup the store with its Gaming tables... To maybe play a game. To at the end, return all of the folding tables and then take the 2+ Transit home.

It happens.

Is it worth my time?

Sure. I'm guaranteeing that 5 other people are meeting on a regular basis and playing games. I myself are playing the Long Game.

I don't play Armada for Instant Gratification. The game is not set up to reward that in any way, shape or form.

I understand that it might not be for everyone, to think like I do on the subject... I mean, I can't change the fact that I would not be running that Sato list as it is (and I'm a Grand Admiral with Sato at the moment)... But with it, there's not much that I could do.

Sometimes you have to make a list and roll with it.

I would certainly show up. I would certainly set up. I would certainly be looking at ways to exploit and use the situation to my advantage - stringing out a potential rhymerball, trying to make a 1-3 speed Jump on a turn to get past, focusing fire...

I will Respect everyone I can.

I will Respect my Opponent by Playing the game to the best of my ability, not just letting them win.

I will Respect my Team by Playing the game to the best of my ability, and that means trying to score or do damage, but includes running away if it preserves me for the long run. If Running away is not an option, then I look at what I can do to cripple the Enemy with what I have, and be damned with my losses. I'd talk it over with my allies.

I will Respect my Campaign by Making the best of the situation to the best of my ability, and that ultimately, might mean throwing in the towel with the fleet and retiring early - to bring something else forward... But that's something I'd discuss with the other participants in the campaign.

To Quote:

"When it is Raining, do you scuttle from Doorway to Doorway, trying to stay dry, but getting wet all the same... Or do you accept the fact you're going to get Wet, and Walk with Dignity?"

Now, if I can just work out why I feel singled out for responding when I was merely a part of the Echo Chamber...

Do exactly what Commander Sato would do. Here we have the commander of a small rebel cell out to raid some hyperlanes for some resources for the cause. There are just a handful of gozantis guarding the lane, no problem for his state of the art ships fresh from the docks of Mon Calamari. Suddenly the rest of the fleet drops out of hyperspace. An Imperial Star Destroyer joined by the unmistakable silhouette of a Gladiator. Ok, this will be a tough fight.

Then the friend or foe indicators start coming in. That's the Demolisher, scourge of countless rebel cells! Those bombers being launched are a full bomber group under the command of none other than Major Rhymer. And then...could it be? That Star Destroyer is the personal flagship of none other than the Chief of the Imperial Navy. To make matters worse, the sickle moon shape of a Jumpmaster is on the threat display. No one would be crazy enough to fly an undergunned scout ship into a fleet engagement except...of course it would be Dengar, just our luck today.

Sato turns to look over his bridge crew, and sees Tycho Celchu, who was minutes before preparing to leave for the flight deck and lead the forces meager complement of A-Wings, now doing the mental calculus and looking to Sato, silently begging him not to send the pilots to their deaths.

"Hit and run is a better strategy when you can get a few hits in, but I'm not throwing lives and precious ships away against THAT. Prepare the fleet for the jump to hyperspace, let's go find what Motti should have been guarding."

"At least they didn't bring an interdictor..."

*******************************

Be like Sato. Play the campaign, not the single match. If the other Imperial fleets are stripped of their best toys, your team could end up 2-1, and you won't have to spend too many points on unscarring units.

Dras, sounds like you have the temperament of a Dungeon Master.

The game is a thing in and of itself. If it takes herculean effort to make everything come together for a group of gamers - so be it.

The more people playing and enjoying the game, the more you win.

Thanks for being that guy!

Yep. This is a Campaign, not a Tournament. Play the Long Game.

In this case, that Sato list is ... kinda dreadful.

Not to be a right pain but lets say this game takes 2 hours to play, 1 hour to set up, 1 hour to drive to and away from. 4 hours for this experience of running away for two hours.

Then I have to actually play with my beat up forces another match just to have a nice say... 52% possible chance of winning?, compared to a nearly like 70-80 chance of losing on the first match? (To be honest the Imp player looks a lot better set up than the Rebel list.)

Another 4 hours.

Is it really worth 8 hours of your time?

Entirely a possibility in the realm of a Campaign.

I mean, You have listed a 1 hour drive there.

I personally invest a 2+ hour Transit Trip. Each Way. To arrive before everyone else, to setup the store with its Gaming tables... To maybe play a game. To at the end, return all of the folding tables and then take the 2+ Transit home.

It happens.

Is it worth my time?

Sure. I'm guaranteeing that 5 other people are meeting on a regular basis and playing games. I myself are playing the Long Game.

I don't play Armada for Instant Gratification. The game is not set up to reward that in any way, shape or form.

I understand that it might not be for everyone, to think like I do on the subject... I mean, I can't change the fact that I would not be running that Sato list as it is (and I'm a Grand Admiral with Sato at the moment)... But with it, there's not much that I could do.

Sometimes you have to make a list and roll with it.

I would certainly show up. I would certainly set up. I would certainly be looking at ways to exploit and use the situation to my advantage - stringing out a potential rhymerball, trying to make a 1-3 speed Jump on a turn to get past, focusing fire...

I will Respect everyone I can.

I will Respect my Opponent by Playing the game to the best of my ability, not just letting them win.

I will Respect my Team by Playing the game to the best of my ability, and that means trying to score or do damage, but includes running away if it preserves me for the long run. If Running away is not an option, then I look at what I can do to cripple the Enemy with what I have, and be damned with my losses. I'd talk it over with my allies.

I will Respect my Campaign by Making the best of the situation to the best of my ability, and that ultimately, might mean throwing in the towel with the fleet and retiring early - to bring something else forward... But that's something I'd discuss with the other participants in the campaign.

To Quote:

"When it is Raining, do you scuttle from Doorway to Doorway, trying to stay dry, but getting wet all the same... Or do you accept the fact you're going to get Wet, and Walk with Dignity?"

Now, if I can just work out why I feel singled out for responding when I was merely a part of the Echo Chamber...

Sorry, not meant to single you out.

We definitely live in different "meta"s though.

Our community has completely quit after losing to the same two hard-core players for over a year. Population down from 14 possible regulars to 1 (me). And two hard-core enthusiasts who have the time to travel those times, but don't play in the area.

Some of us can't make those times either. I can't even get there in time usually for even one game due to work and when the stores close.

Good thing is OP has 5 people to play the CC with.

I'd say my opinion is based on the fact that we have 3 people to possibly try some crazy 3-limbed version of the CC with.

That satisfaction has been a long time coming.

And, as unfortunate as it is, and as unfortunate as it sounds, Blail... Its not the campaign's fault you're caught in a rough-arse player situation... And Trust me, I know exactly how that is, too... Once Living in a place that had its only games store close, and having the literal next nearest game store being Four hours of Highway Driving away...

Campaigns should be fun, and Campaigns should be played in the spirit of the Campaign itself... Campaigns are a way to string together multiple battles in such a way that a Tournament does not... It does require cooperation, it does require thought, and it requires effort...

Many people (and certainly, not attributing this to you) seemed to go into the Corellian Campaign as a magic-cure all for getting people out to play... But really, its a small piece in that overall driver, rather than the salve of wonder...

And again, I wish there is more that can be done.

And, honestly, as it is... I'm still struggling with it.

As I said above, I'm doing a lot to get this campaign going - and that's on top of taking over all of the Armada gaming duties from the store, post-regionals earlier this month... We had over 20 interested in those, And I barely got these 6 to play...

Because most aren't willing to come to the store. Any store. At any time. They're Basement Playing now... I mean, its good in one way, as it showed taht the Armada "Scene" in Calgary is actually rather massive... I know of Six Campaigns going on at the moment, and most of those have no-to-minimal crossovers in players...

But the only way I get to play, is the most intensive way for me, and I barely made it happen because people are non-committal.

It happens.

Comes with the Territory.

But I'm still there. Making the possibility happen, even if not making the eventuality, happen...

Getting one day off a fortnight and playing Armada then, and only then, maybe, is the best I can do.

And, as unfortunate as it is, and as unfortunate as it sounds, Blail... Its not the campaign's fault you're caught in a rough-arse player situation... And Trust me, I know exactly how that is, too... Once Living in a place that had its only games store close, and having the literal next nearest game store being Four hours of Highway Driving away...

Campaigns should be fun, and Campaigns should be played in the spirit of the Campaign itself... Campaigns are a way to string together multiple battles in such a way that a Tournament does not... It does require cooperation, it does require thought, and it requires effort...

Many people (and certainly, not attributing this to you) seemed to go into the Corellian Campaign as a magic-cure all for getting people out to play... But really, its a small piece in that overall driver, rather than the salve of wonder...

And again, I wish there is more that can be done.

And, honestly, as it is... I'm still struggling with it.

As I said above, I'm doing a lot to get this campaign going - and that's on top of taking over all of the Armada gaming duties from the store, post-regionals earlier this month... We had over 20 interested in those, And I barely got these 6 to play...

Because most aren't willing to come to the store. Any store. At any time. They're Basement Playing now... I mean, its good in one way, as it showed taht the Armada "Scene" in Calgary is actually rather massive... I know of Six Campaigns going on at the moment, and most of those have no-to-minimal crossovers in players...

But the only way I get to play, is the most intensive way for me, and I barely made it happen because people are non-committal.

It happens.

Comes with the Territory.

But I'm still there. Making the possibility happen, even if not making the eventuality, happen...

Getting one day off a fortnight and playing Armada then, and only then, maybe, is the best I can do.

I'm glad you're spearheading your region.

"Campaigns should be fun, and Campaigns should be played in the spirit of the Campaign itself... Campaigns are a way to string together multiple battles in such a way that a Tournament does not... It does require cooperation, it does require thought, and it requires effort..."

I guess this is what I mean: I'd hope that Armada is fun, and Campaigns are fun, but the OP's situation doesn't sound like fun. in any sense of the word. Nor does it seem like his teammates are having fun either. Sounds like all 3 of them don't know how to deal with the situation.

I understand that Armada is a long game and its an intense game of self improvement also, however, I think there comes a time when you can logically say that the hours put in aren't becoming more fun. That's what I mean by 8 hours for two games over two days where its possible neither of those two games are going to be that "fun" getting picked apart by something you have a relatively minuscule chance of winning.

I'd recommend trying a new fleet for the OP. Or getting really good with additional squadrons getting picked up next round.

Yeah, I wish I was one of those players who had a fabled kitchen CC. Apparently people buy Armada in our area too, but who know what they do with it. Maybe some play, maybe some simply sit on it and stare at the models.

Been seeing imperial players turtle up and force a zero zero which is a win for the imperials as second player

If you are willing to take the lost and he olaces all yhe obstacles near his starting point crawl forward at speed one, and have nothing but nav commands and a token banked. If he come running towards you. Shoot and use the token and nav to jump to speed three and ran away.

Trick to rhymer is having more sqaudrons and ewings to snipe him down