Do you run them at speed 2 to close the distance and get in black range, knowing you can maneuver better?

Or do you still slow roll them? Slow rolling them seems like they get killed by rebels at long range.

I think you should run at speed 2. They are less predictable, being able to make almost a 90 degree turn to either side and it means you can get closer to use black dice sooner. Vic II might still move at speed 1 because it is not desperate to get close.

The beauty of Jerjerrod is that you can do both. Sometimes slow rolling is the appropriate tactic. Also with a fleet of them you can spin them in a nice echelon.

The beauty of Jerjerrod is that you can do both. Sometimes slow rolling is the appropriate tactic. Also with a fleet of them you can spin them in a nice echelon.

So a 3 VSD fleet is now viable? I hope so as I own 3, heh.

The beauty of Jerjerrod is that you can do both. Sometimes slow rolling is the appropriate tactic. Also with a fleet of them you can spin them in a nice echelon.

So a 3 VSD fleet is now viable? I hope so as I own 3, heh.

So in my humble opinion it always has been

I will say that Jerjerrod makes them an even better carrier and support ship for a fleet.

A year ago with only Core and wave 2 out, the Vic I made sense. Drop it on the table and burn speed 2 at the middle of the formation and tank shots and snipe on the way in till your mostly shot up hulk gets to short range and you win the game off the power of black dice.

Waves 3,4 and 5 have changed that. Victories in general can no longer face tank into the middle of formations. The added lethality of the game left them unable to commit to the same previous role.

Moff JJ and Minister Tau can help with the shortcomings, but at additional cost.

In general for my table the Vic I stays home unless I want a dedicated Carrier. The Vic II is the clear ruler on my table.

I've learned the hard way that VSDs are better as carriers. They don't have much to make them good gunships yet (besides, there aren't many great Ions you'd want to take the II for version anyway).

I do occasionally still dream of the Expanded Launcher VSD-Is with Sensor teams and XI7s that once, long ago, I used to make a fresh GSD vanish in a puff of smoke. Jerjerrod brings that idea closer to being valid once more.

A year ago with only Core and wave 2 out, the Vic I made sense. Drop it on the table and burn speed 2 at the middle of the formation and tank shots and snipe on the way in till your mostly shot up hulk gets to short range and you win the game off the power of black dice.

Waves 3,4 and 5 have changed that. Victories in general can no longer face tank into the middle of formations. The added lethality of the game left them unable to commit to the same previous role.

Moff JJ and Minister Tau can help with the shortcomings, but at additional cost.

In general for my table the Vic I stays home unless I want a dedicated Carrier. The Vic II is the clear ruler on my table.

Nothing about this is correct. The biggest issue with the Vic's are getting flanked, not because they lack firepower. Moff JJ (mostly) fixes the flanking part.

The times I get burned are when I take my VSDs out of formation. They work better in phalanx formation.

Vic I with the Dominator title punches well above its cost. Front arc at close and medium range is the same as an ISD-I at a far cheaper cost.

A year ago with only Core and wave 2 out, the Vic I made sense. Drop it on the table and burn speed 2 at the middle of the formation and tank shots and snipe on the way in till your mostly shot up hulk gets to short range and you win the game off the power of black dice.

Waves 3,4 and 5 have changed that. Victories in general can no longer face tank into the middle of formations. The added lethality of the game left them unable to commit to the same previous role.

Moff JJ and Minister Tau can help with the shortcomings, but at additional cost.

In general for my table the Vic I stays home unless I want a dedicated Carrier. The Vic II is the clear ruler on my table.

Nothing about this is correct. The biggest issue with the Vic's are getting flanked, not because they lack firepower. Moff JJ (mostly) fixes the flanking part.

The times I get burned are when I take my VSDs out of formation. They work better as in phalanx formation.

Vic I with the Dominator title punches well above its cost. Front arc at close and medium range is the same as an ISD-I at a far cheaper cost.

You should comment in the Dominator thread about how you got it to work.

A year ago with only Core and wave 2 out, the Vic I made sense. Drop it on the table and burn speed 2 at the middle of the formation and tank shots and snipe on the way in till your mostly shot up hulk gets to short range and you win the game off the power of black dice.

Waves 3,4 and 5 have changed that. Victories in general can no longer face tank into the middle of formations. The added lethality of the game left them unable to commit to the same previous role.

Moff JJ and Minister Tau can help with the shortcomings, but at additional cost.

In general for my table the Vic I stays home unless I want a dedicated Carrier. The Vic II is the clear ruler on my table.

Nothing about this is correct. The biggest issue with the Vic's are getting flanked, not because they lack firepower. Moff JJ (mostly) fixes the flanking part.

The times I get burned are when I take my VSDs out of formation. They work better as in phalanx formation.

Vic I with the Dominator title punches well above its cost. Front arc at close and medium range is the same as an ISD-I at a far cheaper cost.

You should comment in the Dominator thread about how you got it to work.

Which thread would that be? My search found a couple.

Inspired by this thread, I made a Maximum Victory list.

3x VSDII, with Skilled First Officer, FCT, Ion Cannon Battery, and Dual Turbolaser Turrets. Moff Jerjerrod can ride in one of them.

Major Rhymer, T/B, Tempest Squadron.

Howlrunner +3x T/F.

Might be fun to play, if I had enough copies of everything.

... How does one get damage out of VSD guns anyhow...

At long range, their 3 reds are pitiful. its like a nebulon without title or turbo lasers. except way more costly.

How do you double arc VSDs??

... How does one get damage out of VSD guns anyhow...

At long range, their 3 reds are pitiful. its like a nebulon without title or turbo lasers. except way more costly.

How do you double arc VSDs??

You play Vic II with Spinal, GT and LS. Those things do work.

... How does one get damage out of VSD guns anyhow...

At long range, their 3 reds are pitiful. its like a nebulon without title or turbo lasers. except way more costly.

How do you double arc VSDs??

If you are fighting at long range with a VSD-I for long, you are doing it wrong - unless they are a dedicated carrier for bombers.

VSD's cost more than Neb-B's but have twice the hull.

A year ago with only Core and wave 2 out, the Vic I made sense. Drop it on the table and burn speed 2 at the middle of the formation and tank shots and snipe on the way in till your mostly shot up hulk gets to short range and you win the game off the power of black dice.

Waves 3,4 and 5 have changed that. Victories in general can no longer face tank into the middle of formations. The added lethality of the game left them unable to commit to the same previous role.

Moff JJ and Minister Tau can help with the shortcomings, but at additional cost.

In general for my table the Vic I stays home unless I want a dedicated Carrier. The Vic II is the clear ruler on my table.

Nothing about this is correct. The biggest issue with the Vic's are getting flanked, not because they lack firepower. Moff JJ (mostly) fixes the flanking part.

The times I get burned are when I take my VSDs out of formation. They work better in phalanx formation.

Vic I with the Dominator title punches well above its cost. Front arc at close and medium range is the same as an ISD-I at a far cheaper cost.

Agree, movement was always the liability, otherwise they are a lot of dice for very little points. Top list in TO regionals (2016 Nov) was 2 Victories and some flotillas , only 1 was a carrier. The trick was to reduce flanking, both Victories fly as one ship. JerJerrod helps fix that inherent flaw. It might be the most efficient ship in the game, at the cost of turning.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm eager to watch your efforts at making slow and short ranged work.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm eager to watch your efforts at making slow and short ranged work.

Speed 2 isn't all that slow with that large wide front arc...

As I mentioned in being a carrier, that's one way to get around the VSD's lack of ranged hitting power. It's got Fighter 3, which is pretty standard for a good carrier. Boosted comms is an easy fix to project that attack power, and there are ways to pass tokens to the VSD to bring the carrier rating up to 4. Lambdas can serve in place of Boosted Comms if you want to fit Expanded Hangars.

The VSD's black dice is to hurt ships that are getting to close. If you have a Warlord + H9 combination you have something that you can use against ships on the approach, double-arcing them once they've passed your bombers.

You could go to Blues to have that extra reach and accuracy access, but a 12 point upgrade is pretty steep for that (it's the highest jump between versions in the game, isnt it?). If there were a great Ion cannon to partner with that it might be worth it. NK7s are pricey though, but you would have access to Leading shots while you kept your Weapons team open for Flight Controllers. On the other hand it's cases like this where Vader is starting to be more appealing, since Vader handles all your re-rolls now, and can cover the re-rolls for other ships in your fleet (GSDs, ARQs). Otherwise it's SW-7s...

And for the price you pay to upgrade to a VSD-II, you could stick Dual Turbolaser Turrets and a Gunnery team in that slot. Or Boosted Comms and flight controllers. Or a lot of other two-card combinations where you don't need blue dice, but the ship hits better.

I'm not sure I'm playing the same game as all of you guys.

"... How does one get damage out of VSD guns anyhow... " - You point the guns at the enemy, and press the red button. And since when do VSD not get turbolasers?

"How does one double-arc with a VSD?" - You point your right quarter at the enemy.

"Short-ranged" - Red dice are long range, and getting a bit closer brings in the blue dice. Toss some concentrated firepower in there, and your choice of Enhanced or Spinal Armament or even HC Ion Turbines, (if you're feeling daring) and that's still more dice.

And yea, they are on the slow side. At least we agree on something.

To use VSD's as gunships, you need something to compliment them, and to work as shepherds, herding enemy ships into the brutal front arcs. I've found Arquitens to be especially good at that, though raiders work as well. Speed two is perfectly fine, its the ability to keep things in arc via herding and JJ's ability that is so powerful.

I'm not sure I'm playing the same game as all of you guys.

"... How does one get damage out of VSD guns anyhow... " - You point the guns at the enemy, and press the red button. And since when do VSD not get turbolasers?

"How does one double-arc with a VSD?" - You point your right quarter at the enemy.

"Short-ranged" - Red dice are long range, and getting a bit closer brings in the blue dice. Toss some concentrated firepower in there, and your choice of Enhanced or Spinal Armament or even HC Ion Turbines, (if you're feeling daring) and that's still more dice.

And yea, they are on the slow side. At least we agree on something.

The issue is that if you're only shooting at long range(4.75 average with CF + spinal + double arc), you're doing less damage than a corvette (5 with CF + TRC + double arc )... and the corvette is half the cost. From an efficiency perspective, you can get the same firepower elsewhere, and have points left over.

I'm not sure I'm playing the same game as all of you guys.

"... How does one get damage out of VSD guns anyhow... " - You point the guns at the enemy, and press the red button. And since when do VSD not get turbolasers?

"How does one double-arc with a VSD?" - You point your right quarter at the enemy.

"Short-ranged" - Red dice are long range, and getting a bit closer brings in the blue dice. Toss some concentrated firepower in there, and your choice of Enhanced or Spinal Armament or even HC Ion Turbines, (if you're feeling daring) and that's still more dice.

And yea, they are on the slow side. At least we agree on something.

The issue is that if you're only shooting at long range(4.75 average with CF + spinal + double arc), you're doing less damage than a corvette (5 with CF + TRC + double arc )... and the corvette is half the cost. From an efficiency perspective, you can get the same firepower elsewhere, and have points left over.

Your math is a bit off.

Concentrate fire gets you 3 red dice on the CR90A forward facing, 1 on the side arc. For a total of 4 dice. TRC in each arc to get 2 hits each, leaving 2 dice * 0.75 (6 damage / 8 sides) = 1.5 + 4 = 5.5, but you have exhausted both of your evade tokens. Meaning if the VSD fires back at you, and you have to use an evade, you no longer have this average going forward. (TRC'ing only once gives an average damage of 2 + 3 *.75 or 4.25.)

A VSD-I with Spinals at long range shoots 4 forward dice, 5 with a CF command. Then you get two more red dice out of the side arc. 7 dice * 0.75 (6 damage / 8 sides) = 5.25, a mere 0.25 difference in average damage. It's only 4.75 without Spinal Armarment (6 dice * 0.75). The VSD can do this without using any defense tokens.

If the CR90A only TRC's once, it loses in average damage to the VSD with or without Spinal Armaments.

If we look at just a single front arc, VSD vs CR90A w/TRC, average damage is 2.25 for the VSD and 2.75 for the CR90A. CF for both increases the average damage by 0.75 each to 3.0 for the VSD and 3.5 for the CR90A. If said VSD had Spinal Armaments, the damage output for a single front arc shot is higher for the VSD at 3.75 to 3.5 on a CF command.

The VSD also has twice the hull and will own the CR90A once the engagement gets closer.

To use VSD's as gunships, you need something to compliment them, and to work as shepherds, herding enemy ships into the brutal front arcs. I've found Arquitens to be especially good at that, though raiders work as well. Speed two is perfectly fine, its the ability to keep things in arc via herding and JJ's ability that is so powerful.

I like using Raiders with ion cannons. Either Ion Cannon Batteries to drain shields, or Overload Pulse to ding the defence tokens.

I've had some success with raiders with Assault Proton Torpedoes. People who don't realize how painful they can be tend to get ripped up, and people who DO realize how painful they can be tend to get shepherded.

From an efficiency perspective, you can get the same firepower elsewhere, and have points left over.

Yea, but I also get way more shields and hull points. If you're using evade to shoot at me, I can mission-kill your ship in one turn, with a bit of luck.

I mean, in as much as "mission-kill" is even a thing in this game.

... How does one get damage out of VSD guns anyhow...

At long range, their 3 reds are pitiful. its like a nebulon without title or turbo lasers. except way more costly.

How do you double arc VSDs??

I played against Emfrank in the Vassal Tourney and he was running 4 VSD-I gunships with OE and APT and it was painful. He ran them in a straight but staggered gunline like:

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And with Jerry being able to turn them 90^o He could almost always line up the front guns to blast something hard. I actually lost that game because in the one shot he was going to get at me in close range while my Arq's and Gladiator blew past him he managed to hit a hail mary roll taking an Arq from full hull full shields to nothing and then firing at long range out the side to kill my Gladiator who just left his back corner barely in red range. I killed Jerrod to stop him from pivoting and wiping me out, but if I hadn't gone straight for Jerry's boat, he could have spun that whole line around and tabled me.

Also, with 2 redirects, my bombers simply could not chew through them fast enough, and I was unloading on him hard from turn 2/3 since he didn't have much fighter screen.

All this to say that these ships definitely have a place, and perform admirably.

I love Franks 4 VSD fleet since it so outside the box. I don't think it is ideal for competition, but I think it proved a powerful point to me not to underestimate Jerrod VSD's.