I've been using the "Snap Roll" house rule for a while now (the name of the rule). DarthGM was the one who originally posted it.
( http://fragmentsfromtherim.blogspot.com/2015/02/suspending-rules-snap-roll-action.html?m=1 )
It has worked wonders for starship combat in our game. It does last a bit longer but feels more like what you see in the movies than the current rules do.
I've been using the "Snap Roll" house rule for a while now (the name of the rule). DarthGM was the one who originally posted it.
( http://fragmentsfromtherim.blogspot.com/2015/02/suspending-rules-snap-roll-action.html?m=1 )
It has worked wonders for starship combat in our game. It does last a bit longer but feels more like what you see in the movies than the current rules do.
Thank you for this Jareth, this was exactly the kind of rule I was planning to utilize in order to act as a means of appeasement to my player.
This fits the necessary requirements for making starship combat resemble what has been seen in the movies, while not overly changing or breaking the rules of the current system.
I like it.
I've been using the "Snap Roll" house rule for a while now (the name of the rule). DarthGM was the one who originally posted it.
( http://fragmentsfromtherim.blogspot.com/2015/02/suspending-rules-snap-roll-action.html?m=1 )
It has worked wonders for starship combat in our game. It does last a bit longer but feels more like what you see in the movies than the current rules do.
I think the biggest problem I have with that house rule is how it interacts with the squadron rules.
If you could reduce the hit to 0 consistently by taking the hit on your own X-Wing, why would you ever pass the hit off to your squadron?
Then you have an undying squadron of X-Wings that can fire back whenever you roll a Triumph. It's not at all similar to the combat shown in Star Wars... Most of the squadrons get wasted in every battle. The heroes only survive because they have, essentially, a meat shield of minions around them, just like how the squadron rules work.
I thought I would throw out here my tweaks to the original post just so they are visible. They are not exhaustive, but I tried to change the basic problems I saw and simplify a little.
I wont post the large reasoning bits, but here is the short version of my edited version.
Shield boost allows shields to absorb 100% of the next hit on the selected angle (assuming you have enough shielding left). No added soaking involved.
I've been using the "Snap Roll" house rule for a while now (the name of the rule). DarthGM was the one who originally posted it.
( http://fragmentsfromtherim.blogspot.com/2015/02/suspending-rules-snap-roll-action.html?m=1 )
It has worked wonders for starship combat in our game. It does last a bit longer but feels more like what you see in the movies than the current rules do.
I think the biggest problem I have with that house rule is how it interacts with the squadron rules.
If you could reduce the hit to 0 consistently by taking the hit on your own X-Wing, why would you ever pass the hit off to your squadron?
Then you have an undying squadron of X-Wings that can fire back whenever you roll a Triumph. It's not at all similar to the combat shown in Star Wars... Most of the squadrons get wasted in every battle. The heroes only survive because they have, essentially, a meat shield of minions around them, just like how the squadron rules work.
Though I do agree with you in regards to squadron rules, my group has never really played around with them (seeing as which we only have one ship) so though it could create some issues with games that do, ours should be fine.
Minor tweaks are best. Big complicated changes make big complicated issues. Adding failures automatically to attacks for ranks of Defensive Driving or Handling is a small change, but auto failures can influence results in a big way.
I wouldn't get too crazy with lotsa of arithmetic in dice pools as you'll just bog every dice roll down.
Edited by 2P51
I've been using the "Snap Roll" house rule for a while now (the name of the rule). DarthGM was the one who originally posted it.
( http://fragmentsfromtherim.blogspot.com/2015/02/suspending-rules-snap-roll-action.html?m=1 )
It has worked wonders for starship combat in our game. It does last a bit longer but feels more like what you see in the movies than the current rules do.
I think the biggest problem I have with that house rule is how it interacts with the squadron rules.
If you could reduce the hit to 0 consistently by taking the hit on your own X-Wing, why would you ever pass the hit off to your squadron?
Then you have an undying squadron of X-Wings that can fire back whenever you roll a Triumph. It's not at all similar to the combat shown in Star Wars... Most of the squadrons get wasted in every battle. The heroes only survive because they have, essentially, a meat shield of minions around them, just like how the squadron rules work.
Though I do agree with you in regards to squadron rules, my group has never really played around with them (seeing as which we only have one ship) so though it could create some issues with games that do, ours should be fine.
Understood. Mine haven't gotten the chance to use squadron rules much either. It just seems a little too powerful, being able to negate 9 damage with an X-Wing that we've seen easily just explode in 1 hit in the films.
I am trying to encourage my players to either join or start up an organization of their own. That way we can get into some big battles and use those rules.
I've been using the "Snap Roll" house rule for a while now (the name of the rule). DarthGM was the one who originally posted it.
( http://fragmentsfromtherim.blogspot.com/2015/02/suspending-rules-snap-roll-action.html?m=1 )
It has worked wonders for starship combat in our game. It does last a bit longer but feels more like what you see in the movies than the current rules do.
The math is totally wrong here and focus on top only on newbies with dice pools smaller than rivals.
"
On a skill pilot this is instead of 2, actually 5 and instead of "three times" it becomes 3 times per turn as 9 system strain can easily regenerated each turn . Which means that the Y-Wing can basically not die a full squadron of TIE-Fighters, divided into 4 minion per flight group. Eventuell that Y-Wing, if not shooting back might get wear down from minor hits and occasional triumphs, but it is just as likely that the TIEs kill themselves via despair rolls. ;-) Yeah "reliable, sturdy bomber"
Those become practical immune to any damage in the hands of a hotshot, until the hotshot passes out …they reach a armor value of 10 that way and now survive even direct proton torpedo hits. Hurray for nimble damage sponges.
For all practical means the YT-2400 has unlimited strain avaible as it should have enough crew which be delegated to damage control. In the hands of a skilled pilot it becomes an even worse damage sponge which absorbs 9 damage from each shots and unlike the A-Wing this does not require a specific spec to achieve this nor is it limited by in the same way by the pilots strain. Even 4 full squadrons of 12 become rather harmless against the ship and btw in most cases like this an upgrade of armor makes thing even worse and should most likely reduce damage furthermore by over 90% - a hardpoint well spend. And don't even get me started on something like the Outrider, a signature YT-2400 with Handling 2 and Armor 6, (You still need to run, eventuell all potential pilots in the ship run out of strain
)
The list goes on and on and on. All because players seem to have a hard time to accept that dogfighting in this game is portrait as something with a very high skill cap which is utterly deadly for the newbies. And remember this is a WW1 - WW2 dogfight combat style setting, wars in which over 90% of all confirmed air victories are related to less than 5% of the pilots. Becoming an ace was such a big thing, because you were usually dead before you could reach this status.
Edited by SEApocalypseI thought I would throw out here my tweaks to the original post just so they are visible. They are not exhaustive, but I tried to change the basic problems I saw and simplify a little.
I wont post the large reasoning bits, but here is the short version of my edited version.
Speed differential: For each point of speed difference, add a setback dice to any attacks between two ships. this works both ways.
Shields: Very similar to above, with some cleanup to reduce confusing parts.
you have 10 health per current point of shields. reduce incoming damage by half at most, removing the difference in shield health.
Angling shields moves around up to 10 points from one area to another.
Repair gives back 5 per success, but costs 1 system strain to use. Triumph removes strain cost. Eventually you just dont have the juice to keep recharging. 2 advantage for a free angle is fine.
Shield boost allows shields to absorb 100% of the next hit on the selected angle (assuming you have enough shielding left). No added soaking involved.[/size]
Yes, in a nutshell this is more or less what I was going for.
(I'd made speed factor into difficulty rating and difference in pilot skill add boost, but something like this would work as well)
On a skill pilot this is instead of 2, actually 5 and instead of "three times" it becomes 3 times per turn as 9 system strain can easily regenerated each turn .
How in tarnation are you recovering 9 Strain per turn? Your onboard Astromech can make a mechanics check to repair one point per round (perhaps a bit more if they're a PC with appropriate talents). Unlike personal scale combat, you can't spend Advantage to recover System Strain on your vehicle.
The Grand Falloon , you beat me to it. 9 per round? Maybe in a freighter with everyone with mechanics making checks every round. With other maneuvers and actions that can be done in combat, this has never been the case with our group.
Now, YMMV, but we have been using this for quite a while now and for us it has worked very well. Out top pilot has a skill of 5 currently with a fighter with handling of +1 and armor 4. So, yes, he can for 3 strain ( or 4 personal and 0 for the fighter...yay hotshot) ignore up to 10 damage on a hit. He won't be able to do it for long, but can when he needs to. Also, don't forget, most ships have linked and/or multiple weapons. True, Tie fighters can only fire once per turn but they do have linked. Also, instead of doing a minion group of 6, break them up into 2 groups of 3. More shots (though less accurate) my change the use of this.
But, again, YMMV. I, however, greatly enjoy the use of this house rule.
As for Squadrons, I have only used them on 1 occasion, and our team decided to bug out just after they arrived, I can't add anything to this one.
As an aside, though the rules don't explicitly state it, I have allowed the use of a Triumph to deny the ability to snap roll for that attack.
On a skill pilot this is instead of 2, actually 5 and instead of "three times" it becomes 3 times per turn as 9 system strain can easily regenerated each turn .
How in tarnation are you recovering 9 Strain per turn? Your onboard Astromech can make a mechanics check to repair one point per round (perhaps a bit more if they're a PC with appropriate talents). Unlike personal scale combat, you can't spend Advantage to recover System Strain on your vehicle.
You generate 1 system strain per success on the damage control action, have a few mechanics do damage control each round and it becomes trivial. I guess you don't have the errata version of the core rules
The Y-Wing has 3 crew who can use the damage control action in the worst case.
Edited by SEApocalypse