Am I correct in saying that it would take the Victory 1, AT BEST, 8 rounds to kill the Decimator, if there are no upgrades and no other ships involved?

ha ha yep. From that perspective, squadrons seem overpowered in this game. Pretty sure a decimator could beat a VSD 1v1.

Nope. In the best possible conditions Vic1 will double-arc Decimator every round: so can kill it in 4 rounds.

yeah, when you look at it that way...

Nah, VSD would win every time. The absolute most damage a Deci can do in a turn of shooting at it is 2: 3 damage before the brace. Otherwise it's 1/turn.

Conversely, the VSD could alternate repair/CF, and probably end with a dead deci and next to no damage. But it'd be a silly slap fight!

Now, 3 Decis (66 pts) vs an ISD I would probably win every time.

Nah, VSD would win every time. The absolute most damage a Deci can do in a turn of shooting at it is 2: 3 damage before the brace. Otherwise it's 1/turn.

Conversely, the VSD could alternate repair/CF, and probably end with a dead deci and next to no damage. But it'd be a silly slap fight!

This.

But also, yeah, this is why we don't see the Imps engaging against squadrons without squadrons of their own in most of star wars. They seem to be pretty aware of the dangers posed by even small wings of starfighters, and fight fire with fire.

the aesthetics of star wars space battles were inspired by ww2.

ww2 is known to military historians as "the war when battleships became absolutely obsolete and aircraft carriers ruled the day".

the bismarck had its steers damaged by aircraft carrier planes, leading to it being unable to escape the british fleet.

the tirpitz , sister ship of bismarck, couldnt even get out of port out of fear of bombing runs.

the yamato and musashi, greatest battleships of all time and bigger than most aircraft carriers, didnt really do much throughout the whole war.

hence in star wars, battleships have their place but unsupported by aircraft they cant do much. live with it. its star wars not star trek.

Nope. In the best possible conditions Vic1 will double-arc Decimator every round: so can kill it in 4 rounds.

Ahh... you can hit the same squadron target twice, okay.

Yeah, not complaining or anything... just checking to see if I am understanding, because it DOES seem a bit strange.

Nope. In the best possible conditions Vic1 will double-arc Decimator every round: so can kill it in 4 rounds.

Ahh... you can hit the same squadron target twice, okay.

Yeah, not complaining or anything... just checking to see if I am understanding, because it DOES seem a bit strange.

Correct. I also forgot about the possibility of CF dial that can be spent on squadron attack as WWPDSteven pointed out.

Ahhh, okay. So, 1 on 1, the VSD could theoretically do 3 damage a turn (double arc, CF on one of those, both hits.) So dead Decimator in three turns.

Yeah, not complaining or anything... just checking to see if I am understanding, because it DOES seem a bit strange.

In a vacuum, I'd agree that the Ship/Squadron interactions seem strange. You just kind of expect Big Giant Deadly Thing to be able to completely squash Much Smaller and Less Deadly Thing.

But, given context, it's really not that odd (other than the Decimator just being odd on its own).

In the Star Wars universe, capital ships just kind of suck against fighters. They know this. It's why both sides always field squadrons of some kind - the best way to combat starfighters is "ship to ship". It's a big part of starfighter strategy and theory.

In the context of Armada, it follows the same rules. Starfighters are best dealt with "ship to ship". Capital ships just aren't very good at taking them out.

Except the Decimator gets choice of where to attack, not the VSD. Rogue.

Honestly though, I think even in Star Wars, you do see smaller ships getting taken out by flak. It still doesn't make much sense.

Also, late war ships had incredible anti-air capabilities. Yes, Yamato was killed by air, but with vicious air casualties. There's a bunch of us World of Worshippers here too.

Honestly though, I think even in Star Wars, you do see smaller ships getting taken out by flak.

Do you, other than stationary emplacements (Death Star, Starkiller)? (I do honestly keep asking this, because I really can't think of any.)

And even then, we do see squadrons taken out by ships in Armada. Probably more frequently than we see anywhere else.

How many Decimators can a VSD kill sounds like a nerdy version of "how many 5 year olds can you beat up"

Im fairly certain the # is pretty high

Honestly though, I think even in Star Wars, you do see smaller ships getting taken out by flak.

Do you, other than stationary emplacements (Death Star, Starkiller)? (I do honestly keep asking this, because I really can't think of any.)

And even then, we do see squadrons taken out by ships in Armada. Probably more frequently than we see anywhere else.

Honestly though, I think even in Star Wars, you do see smaller ships getting taken out by flak.

Do you, other than stationary emplacements (Death Star, Starkiller)? (I do honestly keep asking this, because I really can't think of any.)

And even then, we do see squadrons taken out by ships in Armada. Probably more frequently than we see anywhere else.

Prequel trilogy and the clone wars cartoon has a lot of captial ships killing fighters with flak.

Since Star Wars is based on WWII

A lot of Japanese planes were killed by AA fire from ships - the US dedicated cruisers to that very purpose. Technological improvements such as the radio detonator improved the effectiveness of AA fire.

In order to kill a fighter with AA in Armada, you actually have to take the shot.

Ahh... you can hit the same squadron target twice, okay.

Yeah, not complaining or anything... just checking to see if I am understanding, because it DOES seem a bit strange.

You can hit the same Squadron twice if you hit it from two arcs, never from the same arc to the same target, unless second player with advanced gunnery.

the aesthetics of star wars space battles were inspired by ww2.

ww2 is known to military historians as "the war when battleships became absolutely obsolete and aircraft carriers ruled the day".

the bismarck had its steers damaged by aircraft carrier planes, leading to it being unable to escape the british fleet.

the tirpitz , sister ship of bismarck, couldnt even get out of port out of fear of bombing runs.

the yamato and musashi, greatest battleships of all time and bigger than most aircraft carriers, didnt really do much throughout the whole war.

hence in star wars, battleships have their place but unsupported by aircraft they cant do much. live with it. its star wars not star trek.

We are playing Star Wars Armada, a game about capital ship space battles. We are not playing Star Wars X-Wing Super Deluxe: The strategic Squadron battle game.

On the other hand,

We're playing Star Wars Armada, a game about Star Wars fleet-scale space battles. We are not playing 19th Century Naval Engagements IN SPACE.

Again, squadrons are a huge part of Star Wars fleet battles.

You can, but would the Decimator ever be in two arcs since it can move after the Victory? I would think it gets in the rear arc and stays there.

You can, but would the Decimator ever be in two arcs since it can move after the Victory? I would think it gets in the rear arc and stays there.

But then the VSD is just repairing each turn as it calls for help from its supporting ships/squads.

On the other hand,

We're playing Star Wars Armada, a game about Star Wars fleet-scale space battles. We are not playing 19th Century Naval Engagements IN SPACE.

Again, squadrons are a huge part of Star Wars fleet battles.

But if I wanted squadrons to be the most important thing in the game, I'd play X-Wing. I'm paying $50 and 120 points for a big beautiful miniature of a Star Destroyer, with an impressive Battery and high hull. It is disappointing to say the least that Norra and a bomber clutch can wipe out all my facing shields by the end of the turn with stacked BCCs and Toryrn Farr... and the best thing the ISD can do on it's own is do "maybe" two points of damage to that massed fighter ball that, on each craft, has 5 or more hull.

"Oh, take Fighters of your own" is the response. Only thing is, Intel means the bombers are no longer engaged, and Rebel fighters can easily one-shot my space superiority TIEs. That answer is also just feeding how the game is won and lost by what's in your fighter ball more than anything else.

For all that, I don't desire sweeping changes to the game. What I want is more reasons for fighters to have pause when attacking capital ships. If Cluster Bombs hit every fighter in a firing arc, then we'd be talking. Right now Rebel fighters have nothing to fear from capital ships, except maybe Flichette Torps. And if they miss, a proper bomber list will make that 47 point Raider Vanish instantly. Problem solved, now every other capital ship in that list is open game.

I've faced a strong fighter ball for an opponent in nearly every game of Armada since wave 2 was released. I'm very tired of feeling I don't have a tool to effectively fight it without over-specializing.

It is disappointing to say the least that Norra and a bomber clutch can wipe out all my facing shields by the end of the turn with stacked BCCs and Toryrn Farr... and the best thing the ISD can do on it's own is do "maybe" two points of damage to that massed fighter ball that, on each craft, has 5 or more hull.

"Oh, take Fighters of your own" is the response.

I think that the correct response to this threat is to take out those stacked BCC's fast. And ISD2 is one of the few ships that is good for that role.

I'm getting a little worked up over this I know, but fighter barricades are frustrating. And I've lost every game against this guy, to that list.

The fighter ball works as well as it does because the ships sit at speed 0 in the deployment zone, and array fighters out to Boosted Comms range. So those GR75s, and Yavaris with a Flight Coordination Officer, wait for the first ship to approach before pouncing it with the massed array of fighter-bombers. It works so well in my eyes for a few reasons... particularly because Rebel fighters can tank damage and do enough back to decent fighter screens, then instantly switch to bombers and start stripping shields on an approaching ship. They can do both with an Intel source.

I'll be going back to solo matches again trying to find some list to defeat this. I thought I had it last week, but once my fighter screen was gone with little to show for it I knew that untouched bomber cloud would make short work of my VSDs.

What about an X-Wing versus a DEATH STAR?