OK... now we just started the Advanced campaign and I am wondering how the evil overlord can spawn a silver level dungeon leader without giving us a silver chest?

Is it true that when the over lord upgrades elderich that EVERY elderich that comes into play after that is automatically a silver level mob?

The overlord did his upgrade and the very next dungeon we went to had a Demon as the master monster. He has fear 3 and 7 armor. We are using shop deck and copper weapons and our max damage on a roll without using any fatigue is about 11. Subtract 3 surges for fear and 7 damage for armor and that means our best characters can only hit him for 1 point if they get lucky. He has aura 3 too so our two melee characters take more damage just getting in range than they do to this beast with 30 life on their best hit. With the way he hits we cannot stay in range either.

I don't think the game is meant to be impossible at any level but this just doesn't seem fair at all.

The only reason he hasn't routed us wildly is that he is stuck in the summoning circle and we aren't letting him out but at this rate he will cycle through the overlord deck twice before we kill this level master and it's only the first level of the dungeon.

Also almost every trash he spawned also became silver. They were actually tough but we killed them. I am asking foir clarification on what monsters are able to benefit from the Avatar upgrade of a monster type.

The Copper level creatures are an okay fight against store items. Against Copper level treasure, they get creamed. The Overlord *needs* at least one of his groups upgraded just to be able to give the heroes any kind of challenge, and even then they still walk all over the monsters (except maybe the dungeon leaders).

So yes, it is normal that the Overlord has ONE group upgraded higher than the current campaign level (and thus treasure chests). Give it some time, after you've gone through the treasure deck and all the heroes have the weapons they can use best at Copper, even the Silver creatures won't stand much of a chance...

-shnar

Also, Silver Eldritch are god awful nasty. By far the best upgrade IMO.

The level you we're talking about, it wasn't the one with the Demon trapped in the summoning circle was it and the four encounter markers open the door? If it was, and your OL has Silver Eldritch you really just either flee that level or you have three heroes stand on the markers at the end of their turn and the fourth adjacent to one. Let the OL go, then at the start of your turns just hit that encounter marker and everyone runs for the portal.

Nanok_of_St_Pete said:

Because he is evil?

Nanok_of_St_Pete said:

Yes.

Nanok_of_St_Pete said:

Such situations are one of the reasons the game allows the possibility of fleeing: instead of letting the OverLord collect a zillion conquest, flee and head to the next dungeon. Usually the heroes win most dungeon battles (even if sometimes they head to the temple on the way); wouldn't it be unfair if the OL never actually won (i.e. the Leader survives and the heroes have to flee) a dungeon level?!

It is perfectly normal during copper to be forced to flee a dungeon from time to time.

Nanok_of_St_Pete said:

Normal monsters, masters, level leaders, encounter leaders, legendary dungeon leaders... All monsters benefit.

I am used to games like chess where both sides have the same power and the same rules and the only difference is the intellect of the player.

This is a little weird that he can upgrade something so powerful and we are stuck at a much lower power level. Even games like wow where you build a character every player has basically the same options for character builds.

It will get better. The second you guys go to Silver and get Silver treasure you'll be on even footing, even if he gets all monsters to silver and one to gold. And again, when you get into Gold and get those treasure you'll be knocking him around. Its the one problem with RtL, the monsters and treasures don't scale.

Nanok_of_St_Pete said:

Except that you're not stuck. Flee the dungeon (either by not fighting the boss if you don't have to, or by going back to Tamalir). Find other dungeons, open their chests, and collect their loot. Before you know it you'll have a good amount of copper gear and be beating up his silver monsters too. Of course, then the tier will jump to silver and he'll have gold eldritch.

RtL is a see-saw for balance. You'll have your days in the sun soon enough.

Are your heroes not yet stacked with Copper Gear? Our experience has it that the Silver monsters seem "about right" once the heroes have had their pick of Copper treasures, and the Copper monsters are just bees buzzing around making minor annoyances (a hit here and there, or usually just lingering around because of their extra abilities, like the Master Beastman's Command, or the Dark Priest's Dark Prayer).

The only "challenge" really are the Level Leaders and Encounter Leaders. These guys take more than one turn to kill, but non "leader" Silvers are still really easy to kill once you're decked out in Copper treasures...

-shnar