Short answer? No.

If you genuinely think that X-Wing is in a GW-esque state of catastrophic imbalance just because a few lists are more commonly seen than a few other lists, and that a '2.0' or 'banlist' will fix everything, you are demonstrably incorrect by simple observation of GW's current crop of 'games'.

Setting up a '+1 point list', banlist, or whatever else you call it, will only shift the meta around the same way a new release does, and allow a different set of lists to rise to the top and start getting their own set of nerf threads. It's nigh impossible to see all the possible ramifications of changing or removing any given card from the game, and we already have enough danger from that kind of thing with each new one that gets added. That's not even to mention how much more of a barrier this creates for players, who perhaps don't want to have to keep up with a 'banlist' or would prefer if the cards they bought had consistent points costs from one day to the next.

Also, who decides which cards go on this list? FFG? Then you can guarantee the forums will be overrun by topics asking for this or that card to be added/removed from the 'whateverlist' and spitting hate at FFG for putting/not putting certain cards on there. Anyone else? No one can claim 100% lack of bias and so the list will be warped by personal experiences. Just look at this thread alone for how much disagreement as to which cards belong and which don't.

Right now, X-Wing is in a decent (if imperfect) place, where each faction has multiple available build options and no one list dominates all others, and realistically that is the best we can hope for at any given time given the nature of game design. Certainly there are factors/ships that could use addressing, but FFG have demonstrated time and again that they are aware of issues like that and put a lot of effort into making improvements without breaking the game in half (which, as we've seen, one wrong move can do).

Consider also the absolute bottom line here: FFG makes no money from a 'whateverlist', yet it is something that will require a phenomenal amount of effort to successfully maintain and update in line with the meta. Putting 'fixes' in new products might come across a bit devious, but quite honestly it doesn't even come close to the GW 'deliberately break the game to make people buy a thing' school of thought, and all the while FFG are doing as good a job on keeping the game in a healthy state I'm happy to buy a new thing I like to also fix an old thing.

So...no, I think whatever kind of list you're talking about is not a good idea for X-Wing, as all it will create is more problems for the game, more arguments, more work for FFG for no real gain and a less accepting atmosphere for the community (just look at MtG for examples of that).

P.S. For what it is worth, I havnt agreed with a single card on anyone's 'example' lists thus far.

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

Why on earth would you ban Extra Munitions? It's a critical part of making ordnance work at all.

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

Hey don't ban my 6 bomb Miranda!! she just cant hack it with only a paltry 3 bombs, i might need to stick a TLT on her or something

TLTs should definitely be ON the list, but Extra Munitions should NOT be on the list, right??

Agreed, EM is fine at 2 points, it doesn't need to be 3.

As an alternative I put plasma torpedoes on the list as it has the same effect.

• I would really prefer full errata and reprinted card packs (FFG CAN DO THIS) but this would be a step in the right direction since FFG has refused to do this.

As the game continues to get bigger and bigger something is going to break and a BAN list or Errata is going to have to happen.

There is very little on this list that needs 1pt adjustment and only 1 thing that should get a BAN or ERRATA.

• Manaroo- range limit, 1pt
• Palpatine- range limit, 1pt
• Biggs- ban
• Ryad- great
• Zuckuss- 1pt
• Push The Limit- fine
• Crack Shot- fine
• Extra Munitions- seriously? Why is this even on the list?

xwing 2.0 doesn't need to happen but if it did it just needs to be a massive errata and card reprints.

What part of flying Biggs or flying against Biggs do you think is incompatible with a strong metagame?

Biggs came up on the Scum and Villainy podcast as something that limits the design space. Now I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself I DON'T WANT A BAN LIST, and a rotation is just another type of ban list. But maybe a flexible 1 point adjustment would be helpful. If that 1 point increase makes it unplayable, well simply take it off the next list.

You...you understand that the person I actually quoted said 'ban' right? And that you are not required to jump in every time someone is opposed to a ban saying "I don't want a ban"? You get that there are other people in this conversation, right?

• I would really prefer full errata and reprinted card packs (FFG CAN DO THIS) but this would be a step in the right direction since FFG has refused to do this.

As the game continues to get bigger and bigger something is going to break and a BAN list or Errata is going to have to happen.

There is very little on this list that needs 1pt adjustment and only 1 thing that should get a BAN or ERRATA.

• Manaroo- range limit, 1pt
• Palpatine- range limit, 1pt
• Biggs- ban
• Ryad- great
• Zuckuss- 1pt
• Push The Limit- fine
• Crack Shot- fine
• Extra Munitions- seriously? Why is this even on the list?

xwing 2.0 doesn't need to happen but if it did it just needs to be a massive errata and card reprints.

What part of flying Biggs or flying against Biggs do you think is incompatible with a strong metagame?

Agreed. Biggs is not the problem. He limits your opponent's flying because you have to be close to eachother (in formation). He is also relatively easy to bring down. Also if Biggs is so powerful he should be banned why was he not in the top 4 of worlds or winning other premier events?

He limits design space. Any new ship, pilot and upgrade that can be equipped by rebels has to not be broken when it gets one free round of staying alive at 100% health. There is a reason many people found the more recent rebel releases to be underwhelming - luckily ARCs turned out just fine under Biggs' protective wings.

So, Biggs needs to be banned now, because there might be a card in the future that breaks Biggs? What would that card even be?? "If you don't lose a shield on the first turn of combat, something awesome happens"? Does that sound like a good design space to you?

So, Biggs needs to be banned now, because there might be a card in the future that breaks Biggs? What would that card even be?? "If you don't lose a shield on the first turn of combat, something awesome happens"? Does that sound like a good design space to you?

I believe the point being made (and indeed one I agree on) is that while Biggs' ability doesn't break the game, the potential for it to do so through defensive measures applying to him (rather than other ships not being killed off) has already been demonstrated in Epic play and limits what can be done with upgrades or abilities that he can take or be affected by - which can limit what FFG can do with both the X-Wing (which may explain why the 'fix' has been so long in coming) and with Rebel ships in general (which may explain the underwhelming effect recent Rebel releases have had on some folk). That's not to say it's definitely Biggs at fault, but it seems likely.

Either way, I wouldn't put him on a prospective 'banlist', at least not right now. I hate his pilot ability from a design standpoint but, at present, he's perfectly beatable and far from an auto-include - despite what others claim no ship needs Biggs alongside them to be useful, and in my opinion he's a very boring and unimaginative choice.

So, Biggs needs to be banned now, because there might be a card in the future that breaks Biggs? What would that card even be?? "If you don't lose a shield on the first turn of combat, something awesome happens"? Does that sound like a good design space to you?

No, he doesn't "need" to be banned, but as long as he is there new releases must take him into consideration. His abiity is the strongest effect in the game and has kept rebels from powercreeping as much as the other factions have. And that "card" (more like ship configuration) could be anything that must be priority target - Biggs makes it that they can never be. Rebels have been looking eviously at what the other factions got for a while now and that won't change much going forward.

I don't mind that much as someone who doesn't play rebels exclusively, but some weariness could set in, which is a problem for the playerbase.

I just don't think you are drawing the correct conclusions from what the Most Wanted List is and does in Netrunner and trying to apply it to this game.

The most wanted list had lots of troubles with some cards simply tearing down other cards be it mechanics or efficiency. Many strength 0 ICE was just not playable thanks to parasite being splashed in just about every deck. Now I know influence points are not the same as squadron points as the other soft limit in Netrunner is keeping the deck near its minimum size. But using that list and taking a look at a similar system for X-wing could work.

That being said there is also some lessons to be taking from the Netrunner Most Wanted list. For example just because the card is used by every deck doesn't mean it will go on the list. Howard Jackson was such a card that was found in every corp deck. So these same principle could be applied, instead of putting Emperor Palpatine on the list to make it a ridiculous 9 points, we could put Omicron Group Pilot instead which would have the same effect. That way the two other ships that can carry palp won't get hit with the tax as well. So you do have a reason to be concern you have to think of what the point increase will do to not just the top list but to every ship.

The problem with that, is that some of those cards are equally used to make previously or otherwise uncompetitive ships, competitive. Like take Biggs. Without Biggs, ARC-170s absolutely would be completely worthless. Biggs is the ONLY REASON that ARCs see table time, and most of the stuff that kills them is stuff that isnt even on your list of stuff to ban. If you think Rebel squad building is cramped now, imagine it without Biggs, aka, you're locked down to the 3-4 ships that can actually succeed without cover from Biggs.

Honestly i still don't see why people continue to complain about the meta. Wave 9 meta is one of the best metas i've ever been in, and i've been playing since just before Wave 5. The problem isn't that stuff is OP, it's that we have ships that aren't competitive. Otherwise i think overall balance is pretty good, on the whole.

I must disagree that ARCs are only seen with Biggs. I've seen a few lists pairing Norra with Rey and doing decent. Give Norra PTL, C-3PO, and R2-D2 and she is hard to chew through. Not impossible, but still useable apart from Biggs.

hard to chew through.... if you're attacked by no more than 2 ships. The first attack will miss, the second will do 1 damage, the third will do 3. Unsustainable. Without Nien Nunb and EU, she's slow(which is why Biggs is so necessary), without Tail Gunner she can't hit out of her rear arc(Norra with Tail Gunner has a higher hit percentage out of her rear arc than her front arc with increasing returns the higher agility your target is, which fits well into using Biggs because you can just run past them and keep letting Biggs take hits while Norra obliterates them from behind), and, without Biggs, she never gets to use her ability offensively, which is where her high damage potential comes from, allowing you to make turn 1-2 alpha strikes. Usable without Biggs =/= as good as having Biggs.

I wasn't trying to content that Norra doesn't benefit from Biggs or that her with Biggs might not be the better option. I'm merely pointing out that your blanket statement was incorrect. I'm challenging that statement because it can be used to justify using what's been proven before and not experimenting. From what I can tell from your reasoning, triple K lists shouldn't work. But they do. Don't shut out different ideas because they don't seem better than what you already have. They just might surprise you.

But Triple-Ks can slam. And drop bombs. And have turrets. And a better hull-to-shield ratio. ARCs struggle without Biggs because they can't arc-dodge and are very slow. Triple Ks work because A) They're all indentical, so losing any one K doesnt feel like a particularly hard loss than any other. B) don't need to rely on shooting to do damage thanks to bombs, which goes hand in hand with C) SLAMing allows extreme maneuverability and speed which allows Ks to very easily lock down parts of the board. ARCs get around their lack of maneuverability by having the rear arc, but all that does is make them able to keep shooting, not avoid getting shot at.

Look, i get your point, but unless you have Nien Nunb+EU+R2-D2+PTL Norra, or something even bigger and scarier than Norra(like Rey, because she has more HP and an even higher damage output in a faster and more agile frame + the higher pilot skill), you need Biggs. I know ARCs in and out, these aren't preconceived notions, these are things i've found out through trial and error.

Based on what you have been saying has been your experience, I am willing to believe that Biggs is probably the optimal wingman to ARCs. But, as the two examples you said above show, there are other options beside Biggs that can work. Again, maybe not as reliable, but well enough for a chance. I don't mean to imply that any combo will work, but there are more ways to leverage time with someone like Norra then just one.

• I would really prefer full errata and reprinted card packs (FFG CAN DO THIS) but this would be a step in the right direction since FFG has refused to do this.

As the game continues to get bigger and bigger something is going to break and a BAN list or Errata is going to have to happen.

There is very little on this list that needs 1pt adjustment and only 1 thing that should get a BAN or ERRATA.

• Manaroo- range limit, 1pt
• Palpatine- range limit, 1pt
• Biggs- ban
• Ryad- great
• Zuckuss- 1pt
• Push The Limit- fine
• Crack Shot- fine
• Extra Munitions- seriously? Why is this even on the list?

xwing 2.0 doesn't need to happen but if it did it just needs to be a massive errata and card reprints.

What part of flying Biggs or flying against Biggs do you think is incompatible with a strong metagame?

It has already been mentioned a lot by others but both this design team and the previous one had struggles around Biggs and design space. Anyone who has been playing this game for any amount of time knows the power of Biggs and how close he already is to being a menace. A lot of "knowledgable" and "repuatable" folks also say that his effect is too impactful. I agree with all of that. I would prefer an errata (as I've stated multiple times now) to a ban but if he is keeping us from not getting new stuff AND is warping gameplay AND ban is are only option, then we need to take that option.

• I would really prefer full errata and reprinted card packs (FFG CAN DO THIS) but this would be a step in the right direction since FFG has refused to do this.

As the game continues to get bigger and bigger something is going to break and a BAN list or Errata is going to have to happen.

There is very little on this list that needs 1pt adjustment and only 1 thing that should get a BAN or ERRATA.

• Manaroo- range limit, 1pt
• Palpatine- range limit, 1pt
• Biggs- ban
• Ryad- great
• Zuckuss- 1pt
• Push The Limit- fine
• Crack Shot- fine
• Extra Munitions- seriously? Why is this even on the list?

xwing 2.0 doesn't need to happen but if it did it just needs to be a massive errata and card reprints.

The list is to lessen the need for pen and ink change errata. Furthermore it is an adjustment that can easily be reverted.

As for some on the list you have to also see if it is the card or just an effect it has on other cards (hence not viewing it in a vacuum) . There is a large call for nerfing palpatine but why not just target the pilot he is most seen on, the Omicron Group Pilot. Also the Extra Munitions doesn't need to be on the list, but putting plasma torpedoes will have the intended effect without altering other torpedo and missile weapons that depend on extra munitions.

The problem with that, is that some of those cards are equally used to make previously or otherwise uncompetitive ships, competitive. Like take Biggs. Without Biggs, ARC-170s absolutely would be completely worthless. Biggs is the ONLY REASON that ARCs see table time, and most of the stuff that kills them is stuff that isnt even on your list of stuff to ban. If you think Rebel squad building is cramped now, imagine it without Biggs, aka, you're locked down to the 3-4 ships that can actually succeed without cover from Biggs.

Honestly i still don't see why people continue to complain about the meta. Wave 9 meta is one of the best metas i've ever been in, and i've been playing since just before Wave 5. The problem isn't that stuff is OP, it's that we have ships that aren't competitive. Otherwise i think overall balance is pretty good, on the whole.

I must disagree that ARCs are only seen with Biggs. I've seen a few lists pairing Norra with Rey and doing decent. Give Norra PTL, C-3PO, and R2-D2 and she is hard to chew through. Not impossible, but still useable apart from Biggs.

hard to chew through.... if you're attacked by no more than 2 ships. The first attack will miss, the second will do 1 damage, the third will do 3. Unsustainable. Without Nien Nunb and EU, she's slow(which is why Biggs is so necessary), without Tail Gunner she can't hit out of her rear arc(Norra with Tail Gunner has a higher hit percentage out of her rear arc than her front arc with increasing returns the higher agility your target is, which fits well into using Biggs because you can just run past them and keep letting Biggs take hits while Norra obliterates them from behind), and, without Biggs, she never gets to use her ability offensively, which is where her high damage potential comes from, allowing you to make turn 1-2 alpha strikes. Usable without Biggs =/= as good as having Biggs.

I wasn't trying to content that Norra doesn't benefit from Biggs or that her with Biggs might not be the better option. I'm merely pointing out that your blanket statement was incorrect. I'm challenging that statement because it can be used to justify using what's been proven before and not experimenting. From what I can tell from your reasoning, triple K lists shouldn't work. But they do. Don't shut out different ideas because they don't seem better than what you already have. They just might surprise you.

But Triple-Ks can slam. And drop bombs. And have turrets. And a better hull-to-shield ratio. ARCs struggle without Biggs because they can't arc-dodge and are very slow. Triple Ks work because A) They're all indentical, so losing any one K doesnt feel like a particularly hard loss than any other. B) don't need to rely on shooting to do damage thanks to bombs, which goes hand in hand with C) SLAMing allows extreme maneuverability and speed which allows Ks to very easily lock down parts of the board. ARCs get around their lack of maneuverability by having the rear arc, but all that does is make them able to keep shooting, not avoid getting shot at.

Look, i get your point, but unless you have Nien Nunb+EU+R2-D2+PTL Norra, or something even bigger and scarier than Norra(like Rey, because she has more HP and an even higher damage output in a faster and more agile frame + the higher pilot skill), you need Biggs. I know ARCs in and out, these aren't preconceived notions, these are things i've found out through trial and error.

Thank you for clarifying I few things I wasn't fully getting. My K-Wing counter wasn't a good point, but it did give you a chance to show your knowledge and experience, so it worked out.

Based on what you have been saying has been your experience, I am willing to believe that Biggs is probably the optimal wingman to ARCs. But, as the two examples you said above show, there are other options beside Biggs that can work. Again, maybe not as reliable, but well enough for a chance. I don't mean to imply that any combo will work, but there are more ways to leverage time with someone like Norra then just one.

Thats true. I've heard of the successes of Norra/Rey. I do believe that a skilled pilot able to leverage the advantages of having a ship like Rey can really make Norra work, but it's so heavily based in positioning, making the correct decisions, and thinking multiple turns ahead. It's rather exhausting, if i'm honest, and it really speaks to the mental endurance of the players able to win entire tournaments with that list. But that's really it, is that for most of us, being able to play up to 5-6 games in one day, and having to give each and every one of those 1 hour and 15 minute games your all borders on the impossible. Thats why i've always been an advocate for the best list combinations in the game being difficult to use, because if you know you dont have a strong endurance, you'll need to balance ease of use with the performance ceiling of your list. Norra/Biggs/Braylen, my current preferred list, isn't all that difficult, but there's only so far i can take it, mostly because i added Biggs, which is 26 points of something i can't use to add in a more offensive or otherwise useful ship that's used for more than getting Norra and Braylen through the first few rounds of shooting.

I'd rather Biggs have not existed in the first place, simply because it would have meant ships like ARC-170s would have needed to be designed to survive without Biggs being a factor. It would have resulted in ultimately more competitive, and more difficult rebel builds. But we do have Biggs, and it's too late to redesign those ships.

We have our X-Wing, and honestly i'm pretty pleased with Wave IX meta. I don't think there's a need to fuss everything up.

So far Bigss Palp, and Manaroo are the biggest points of contention. Is there any upgrade/pilot card that they are paired up with. Maybe instead of going after say Manaroo we could target attini mindlink instead, just as instead of going after emperor palpatine we add the +1 point to Omicron Group Pilot. How would that break the meta-lock these gate keepers have?

So far Bigss Palp, and Manaroo are the biggest points of contention. Is there any upgrade/pilot card that they are paired up with. Maybe instead of going after say Manaroo we could target attini mindlink instead, just as instead of going after emperor palpatine we add the +1 point to Omicron Group Pilot. How would that break the meta-lock these gate keepers have?

You nerf midlink, you nerf dozens of fun squads with Guri, Palob and squad. Even talonbane cobra. That's not the way.

So far Bigss Palp, and Manaroo are the biggest points of contention. Is there any upgrade/pilot card that they are paired up with. Maybe instead of going after say Manaroo we could target attini mindlink instead, just as instead of going after emperor palpatine we add the +1 point to Omicron Group Pilot. How would that break the meta-lock these gate keepers have?

Change your tactics and your approach. That might help you win a bit more.

Manaroo is she and she's Dengar's fiancee. That's one of the reasons i kind of like manaroo, its a flavorful list.

So far Bigss Palp, and Manaroo are the biggest points of contention. Is there any upgrade/pilot card that they are paired up with. Maybe instead of going after say Manaroo we could target attini mindlink instead, just as instead of going after emperor palpatine we add the +1 point to Omicron Group Pilot. How would that break the meta-lock these gate keepers have?

You nerf midlink, you nerf dozens of fun squads with Guri, Palob and squad. Even talonbane cobra. That's not the way.

I haven't seen too many of those squads, but I see your point, the problem is if you just raise the point of one card then you will raise the cost of other squadron lists who are not on the top meta but still used that card.

Originally I only wanted to include 'pilot-upgrade (and an addendum to high jousting generics that carry no upgrades). So the original idea was a list of top performing pilots (taking from the top of regionals) and common upgrades that go with it and any upgrade that was taken when listed next to the pilot will have their cost increased by one. So example

• Manaroo + mindlink would be +1 extra points, but Manaroo with VI and/or Talonbane with mindlink woud be +0 extra points.
• Soontir Fel + PTL would be +1 but Tetran Cowel with PTL or Soontir with VI would be +1.

So a sample list would be like this (again this is a sample not a suggestion though it might contain some suggestions)

Pilot upgrades

• Soontir Fel; PTL, Royal Guard Pilot
• Manaroo; Atanni Mindlink, PTL, Extra Munitions
• Biggs Darklighter: Integrated Astromech
• Omicron Group Pilot: Emperor Palpatine
• Academy Pilot: blank*

blank* = +1 point if no upgrades are taken.

Well right now the blank* is a mute point with so many 0 modifications a player would just take a Guidance Chip on an Academy Pilot as a work around and call it good. So an additional clarification must include upgrades =/= 0 points

But again while this is a little more of a targeted correction the issue with this is it can get too complicated. When rules and mechanics get too complicated things start to get confusing. A good example is when FFG errata cluster mind detonations letting crits count as hits on instead of something like only discarding clustermine tokens on a hit or crit. Now Clustermines are better than proximity mines in power and cost but they are useful. Simplicity has its benefits in this game, even if it might not be the most balance.

A list of heightened costs for meta-warping cards would not be a bad thing: lists not incorporating the current warp cards would be able to compete because using Zuckuss, Palpatine, Manaroo, et cetera, would come with a heavy point cost and thus less other stuff. It'd have to be more than one point though. Little difference between a 9 point Palp and an 8 point Palp.

It's a particularly elegant solution to ostensibly overpowered cards because it doesn't involve outright banning them and if they're overnerfed the point adjustment can be altered. However, it'd have to be done with extreme care: if killing Nightmare List 001 just means you're dealing with Nightmare List 002 then what have you achieved?

If done right I think it's one of the best solutions available.

So far Bigss Palp, and Manaroo are the biggest points of contention. Is there any upgrade/pilot card that they are paired up with. Maybe instead of going after say Manaroo we could target attini mindlink instead, just as instead of going after emperor palpatine we add the +1 point to Omicron Group Pilot. How would that break the meta-lock these gate keepers have?

Why would you target Palpatine indirectly when you can target him directly just as easily? Strikes me as overcomplicating matters and increasing collateral damage needlessly.

Keep it simple. Restricted card name, additional point cost. Change as needed along with FAQ. That's it.

Increasing the costs of cards will not work, in general.. if you want PTL to cost 5 w/ Fel, you just need to increase the cost. It's generally not Fel that is the big issue, its Palpatine changing that blank into an Evade that allows you to keep Stealth Device. Because honestly, w/o PTL, Autothruster, Stealth Device combined w/ Palp, Fel is just a pre-Imp Aces pos TIE Intcp

Increasing the costs of cards will not work, in general.. if you want PTL to cost 5 w/ Fel, you just need to increase the cost.

You're going to have to be clearer because to me that reads like a contradiction. Are you trying to say you should increase the cost of specific combinations? That's just going to overcomplicate matters.

The higher the cost of a card, the less powerful a list with it is. If the basic Palpatine Omicron was priced at 40 points PalpAces would be considerably less powerful because there'd be less of the Aces part. Slam Zuckuss up to 10 points and people aren't going to put it in X-Aroo lists. Push TIE/x7 from -2 points to 1 point and it'll stop beating TIE/D at every turn. It may not be the best solution in every case (I believe errata is a better approach for Zuckuss) but heavy handed point taxes would certainly work.

Increasing the costs of cards will not work, in general.. if you want PTL to cost 5 w/ Fel, you just need to increase the cost.

You're going to have to be clearer because to me that reads like a contradiction. Are you trying to say you should increase the cost of specific combinations? That's just going to overcomplicate matters.

The higher the cost of a card, the less powerful a list with it is. If the basic Palpatine Omicron was priced at 40 points PalpAces would be considerably less powerful because there'd be less of the Aces part. Slam Zuckuss up to 10 points and people aren't going to put it in X-Aroo lists. Push TIE/x7 from -2 points to 1 point and it'll stop beating TIE/D at every turn. It may not be the best solution in every case (I believe errata is a better approach for Zuckuss) but heavy handed point taxes would certainly work.

They are saying to increase the cost of A when paired with B. I'm saying if you are going to increase A b/c of B; just increase the cost of A and be done with it. Don't make it harder, make it smarter.

Increasing the costs of cards will not work, in general.. if you want PTL to cost 5 w/ Fel, you just need to increase the cost.

You're going to have to be clearer because to me that reads like a contradiction. Are you trying to say you should increase the cost of specific combinations? That's just going to overcomplicate matters.

The higher the cost of a card, the less powerful a list with it is. If the basic Palpatine Omicron was priced at 40 points PalpAces would be considerably less powerful because there'd be less of the Aces part. Slam Zuckuss up to 10 points and people aren't going to put it in X-Aroo lists. Push TIE/x7 from -2 points to 1 point and it'll stop beating TIE/D at every turn. It may not be the best solution in every case (I believe errata is a better approach for Zuckuss) but heavy handed point taxes would certainly work.

They are saying to increase the cost of A when paired with B. I'm saying if you are going to increase A b/c of B; just increase the cost of A and be done with it. Don't make it harder, make it smarter.

The first post was just increasing the cost of A. I brought up the idea of increasing the cost of A when compared to B as a more fair system of meta correction and balancing tools. While A pared with B tax is a little more specific in terms of intended targets of "broken combos" but as it has been mentioned that gets too complicated.

So I guess the consensus if a most wanted list was up just a straight up +1 point to printed cost on pilot or upgrade card.

The potential candidates.

• Manaroo
• Col Vessery
• Biggs Darklighter
• Emperor Palpatine
• Plasma Torpedoes
• PTL or mindlink (one of the two)

They are saying to increase the cost of A when paired with B. I'm saying if you are going to increase A b/c of B; just increase the cost of A and be done with it. Don't make it harder, make it smarter.

We're in agreement then.

So I guess the consensus if a most wanted list was up just a straight up +1 point to printed cost on pilot or upgrade card.

The potential candidates.

• Manaroo
• Col Vessery
• Biggs Darklighter
• Emperor Palpatine
• Plasma Torpedoes
• PTL or mindlink (one of the two)

Why restrict yourself to +1? That makes it both almost completely ineffectual and prevents you from adjusting higher value cards.

If you've got to look up the list to see what's on it anyway you can set different price hikes on each card.

They are saying to increase the cost of A when paired with B. I'm saying if you are going to increase A b/c of B; just increase the cost of A and be done with it. Don't make it harder, make it smarter.

We're in agreement then.

So I guess the consensus if a most wanted list was up just a straight up +1 point to printed cost on pilot or upgrade card.

The potential candidates.

• Manaroo
• Col Vessery
• Biggs Darklighter
• Emperor Palpatine
• Plasma Torpedoes
• PTL or mindlink (one of the two)

Why restrict yourself to +1? That makes it both almost completely ineffectual and prevents you from adjusting higher value cards.

If you've got to look up the list to see what's on it anyway you can set different price hikes on each card.

Mostly terms of simplicity, The idea came from Andriod: Netrunner when they came out with their Most Wanted List which increased the influence cost of the cards on it by 1. Now I know spending influence on Netrunner is not the same as spending squadron points on X-wing but I decided to take a look at some of the regional top 4 lists and noticed that many of them were at 99/100 and all but one used cards on the list. So taking a look a +1 tax was more than enough to cause many of those championship winning meta list to have to go through some revision or drop an upgrade or two that wasn't a critical component of the meta.

Again, I contend that PTL is not the issue. On anyone other than Soontir Fel, PTL is annoying at best; but not terribly meta breaking. The problem is PTL combined with Stealth Device and/or hands down the BEST card in the game: Autothrusters.

I disagree that Palp needs a point increase, he either: A. Needs a range limit 1-2 or B. Banned from the 100pt Meta.

I just don't see Biggs being a real point of contention, FFG tried to dumb him down with the new ruling and he probably will not be as bad. At worst, just ban the current pilot and rebuild him.

Vessery alone is not the problem, it's that backbreaking Tie D title. Look at the Top 4 of the last 7 Regionals and you will see 14/28 lists have at least one or more TIE D w/ the Title.

Manaroo is the same as Palp (sort of), he needs a range limit or a No Stress restriction.

Plasma Torps are a huge deal, but they are already like 5pts(?)

Vessery alone is not the problem, it's that backbreaking Tie D title. Look at the Top 4 of the last 7 Regionals and you will see 14/28 lists have at least one or more TIE D w/ the Title.

oh no people are actually using the other defender title whatever shall we doooo...

Vessery alone is not the problem, it's that backbreaking Tie D title. Look at the Top 4 of the last 7 Regionals and you will see 14/28 lists have at least one or more TIE D w/ the Title.

oh no people are actually using the other defender title whatever shall we doooo...

Make it cost 1 point.

Well of course any thing that might restrict play is going to be unpopular. Even if it is not a complete ban list. I just think this is a lighter approach to the Pen and Ink Errata that was the last FAQ. Some people think a ban or more pen and ink errata changes would be better. I would like to disagree so here is an alternative.