Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

The hell would you ban PTL and EM for?

There are way too many ships that depend on PTL to even see tabletime at all, the only ones that truely are a problem with it arent a problem if you ban the rest of this list.

EM isnt even CLOSE to a problem, its a fix for a reason because w/o it ordnance is stupid and waste of points. There are a FEW exceptions, but largely the only ordnance you see are on EM users.

Banning in general is a really bad idea. Unless FFG does a stupid and releases Yoda as a brokenly powerful card that seemingly wins lists on his own despite not being a pilot, nothing should ever be banned.

Palp and Manaroo would be simply fixed by slapping a range restriction on them both.

When it comes to something like Zuckuss there does need to be some sort of way to impose an extra penalty for having a mountain of stress beyond a certain number like after 4 you can only perform greens until below 4 or what ever number is settled upon. With the obvious exception of Tycho since that is his thing

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

After you ban this list, I am sure you will have another list of ships that beat you once to ban...

And this is the reason bans are a BAD idea. When you kill one boogie man another WILL take his place. I take the 'Meta' lists as a challenge to beat. And they are very beatable. So instead of crying 'fix' or 'ban' try to come up with a different strategy to win.

Or just play for fun instead of to win. Then you can choose from 100s of cards instead of the top 2 dozen.

I would like to just see the unique bullet point added to PTL and TLT. I think that would be enough. Still useful, just not spammable.

It would would also be interestng if BMST could roll for damage for each stress token. Would definitely make someone think twice before piling on seven stress.

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

Not banning anything but make each of those +1 point in premier tournaments (stores could op to use or not use it)

Manaroo Emperor Palpatine and Biggs Darklighte seem like the obvious choice.

Zuckuss (needs to specify crew or pilot) I'm not sure of. In Android netrunner the most popular cards are not put on the "Most Wanted List" Howard Jackson the card in every corp deck was not put on it. Only cards that have too much influence on the meta.

Push The Limit, Crack Shot, and Extra Munitions absolutely not. If anything you would hit the other cards in that combo, Soontir Fel, Black Squadron Pilot, and Plasma Torpedoes.

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

After you ban this list, I am sure you will have another list of ships that beat you once to ban...

Of course, then you could ban:

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

After you ban this list, I am sure you will have another list of ships that beat you once to ban...

Of course, then you could ban:

TLT

Autothrusters

Advanced SLAM

R2D2

R5P9

Fat turrets need to explaine better Only pilot or upgrade cards

Miranda

Sabine (crew)

Gunner

Soontir

Whisper

Omega Leader

Advanced Cloaking Device

Glitterstim

Engine Upgrade

Stealth Device

Veteran Instincts

Dead eye

Mindlink

Predator

Juke

And preventively

Expertise

Kylo Ren

There really needs to be a nerf/x-wing 2.0 sub forum on here.

I don't think anything is broken. These ships and upgrades get play tested, and aside from certain things being absent (for possible future expansion) I don't see a problem.

If you don't like how uncreative people are by picking a popular list, change it by inventing the next meta-changing list that shows folks another way. Everything is beatable. It's just a matter of how you fly it.

I don't think anything is broken. These ships and upgrades get play tested, and aside from certain things being absent (for possible future expansion) I don't see a problem.

If you don't like how uncreative people are by picking a popular list, change it by inventing the next meta-changing list that shows folks another way. Everything is beatable. It's just a matter of how you fly it.

I believe there are very very few cards that even need changes let alone bans. Zuckuss needs some limits and range restrictions on limitless abilities(palp, manaroo,mindlink) and that's it. X-wing is actually in a really good place at the moment.

Stuff succeeds in the meta because we're limited to 100 points. Things are good because they're cheap. If Soontir Fel cost 40 points instead of 35, he'd never see play. If the U-Boat was 37 points instead of 33, it would have never needed nerfing.

Balancing with points is too tricky, because the units are so discreet. There's no .5 point, and I doubt there ever will be. So you balance with incomparables. PWTs are too strong? Autothrusters. Zuckuss is too strong? Build a ship or upgrade that preys on people hoarding stress. But just adjusting the point value is too coarse a correction in some regards, and can be accomplished much better through incomparables.

For instance, I 100% see an Interceptor-style ship with the Pilot Ability "Enemy ships at Range 1 cannot target or be targeted by its friendly ships with abilities beyond Range 1-2." It's interesting, compelling to play with, compelling to play against, completely breaks Manaroo, Mindlink, and Palp. If you're running one of those lists, you need to come with an answer for that ship.

That's how good metas are developed and sustained.

There really needs to be a nerf/x-wing 2.0 sub forum on here.

Ooh, that sounds like a really good idea. I actually did listen to the Scum&Villainy podcast today. I started a list of things I disagree with, but then it got so long that I stopped bothering. The X-Wing 2.0 they talked about there sounded really, really boring.

I believe there are very very few cards that even need changes let alone bans. Zuckuss needs some limits and range restrictions on limitless abilities(palp, manaroo,mindlink) and that's it. X-wing is actually in a really good place at the moment.

Zuckess has limits. That ship will never ever get to do an action. Ever. That's a pretty big downside.

The only limitation I foresee with him is "small and large ship only" to keep him from being a no-downside crew on the C-ROC.

I believe there are very very few cards that even need changes let alone bans. Zuckuss needs some limits and range restrictions on limitless abilities(palp, manaroo,mindlink) and that's it. X-wing is actually in a really good place at the moment.

Zuckess has limits. That ship will never ever get to do an action. Ever. That's a pretty big downside.

The only limitation I foresee with him is "small and large ship only" to keep him from being a no-downside crew on the C-ROC.

I also said this on reddit - a "once per round" on Zuckuss would help keep him from being a huge pain on Huge ships and maybe take some of his regular play teeth away without just making him useless. It was probably never intended he be used more than once anyway. We'll see which angle FFG decides to take though.

You can ban whatever cards you want, or raise the cost of certain cards, or, or...whatever you want to a limited population. After the fix, Eventually the meta will involve and a new set of over powered/under costed cards will emerge. The baseline will change but something will float to the top. It's a moving target. We need x wing 2.0 and comprehensive relook at, recosting of everything.

I don't think anything is broken. These ships and upgrades get play tested, and aside from certain things being absent (for possible future expansion) I don't see a problem.

If you don't like how uncreative people are by picking a popular list, change it by inventing the next meta-changing list that shows folks another way. Everything is beatable. It's just a matter of how you fly it.

Agreed, nothing is unbeatable but as upgrade ships and mechanics get released there are some pilots and upgrades that tend to break ahead of the pack and beat all other pilots for that ship (or upgrades for that slot) which really restricts the design space. However as the meta shifts not every pilot or upgrade card stays on top (Soontir Fel is the best example). So as alternative to an errata which is permanent, this list is more of a temporary. So lets say back in Wave 6 Soontir Fel might be a perfect candidate so he would be put on the list which makes him cost 1 more point in premier, but now in Wave 9 he is not on top so he would be off the list and back to his default 27 points.

This is just to give more design space in the meta. +1 point can shift the point efficiency many of these top tier list use thus bringing in some more variety. Also gives the devs flexibility as they always have a way to retroactivly raise a pilot or upgrade card by 1 point in case one was undercosted too much. And if that happens to make it overcosted they can just drop it from the list.

We need x wing 2.0 and comprehensive relook at, recosting of everything.

X-wing 2.0 is already broken. We need to skip 3.0 and go straight to 4.0.

Fat turrets need to explaine better Only pilot or upgrade cards

I was just triying to be ironic.

We need x wing 2.0 and comprehensive relook at, recosting of everything.

X-wing 2.0 is already broken. We need to skip 3.0 and go straight to 4.0.

I would ban the "Ren Knight" generic pilot and the "Imbued with the force" EPT in the 5.0, they are (they will be) absolutely broken, even more with the "phase ammunition" tech.

There really needs to be a Star Trek Attack-wing 2.0.

Fixed it for you, actually there needs to be a Star Trek Armada.

I don't think we need a 2.0. Heck the Core set is already a I wouldn't call it a X-wing 1.5. The TFA core set is more like an X-wing 1.1. Well I think we are in X-wing 1.4.2.3 is good enough. We don't need X-wing 2.0.

The problem with that, is that some of those cards are equally used to make previously or otherwise uncompetitive ships, competitive. Like take Biggs. Without Biggs, ARC-170s absolutely would be completely worthless. Biggs is the ONLY REASON that ARCs see table time, and most of the stuff that kills them is stuff that isnt even on your list of stuff to ban. If you think Rebel squad building is cramped now, imagine it without Biggs, aka, you're locked down to the 3-4 ships that can actually succeed without cover from Biggs.

Honestly i still don't see why people continue to complain about the meta. Wave 9 meta is one of the best metas i've ever been in, and i've been playing since just before Wave 5. The problem isn't that stuff is OP, it's that we have ships that aren't competitive. Otherwise i think overall balance is pretty good, on the whole.

There really needs to be a Star Trek Attack-wing 2.0.

Fixed it for you, actually there needs to be a Star Trek Armada.

I don't think we need a 2.0. Heck the Core set is already a I wouldn't call it a X-wing 1.5. The TFA core set is more like an X-wing 1.1. Well I think we are in X-wing 1.4.2.3 is good enough. We don't need X-wing 2.0.

Well, Attack Wing is getting a rules overhaul. It is sort of telling that no one here is paying attention to that game.

The problem with that, is that some of those cards are equally used to make previously or otherwise uncompetitive ships, competitive. Like take Biggs. Without Biggs, ARC-170s absolutely would be completely worthless. Biggs is the ONLY REASON that ARCs see table time, and most of the stuff that kills them is stuff that isnt even on your list of stuff to ban. If you think Rebel squad building is cramped now, imagine it without Biggs, aka, you're locked down to the 3-4 ships that can actually succeed without cover from Biggs.

Honestly i still don't see why people continue to complain about the meta. Wave 9 meta is one of the best metas i've ever been in, and i've been playing since just before Wave 5. The problem isn't that stuff is OP, it's that we have ships that aren't competitive. Otherwise i think overall balance is pretty good, on the whole.

There really needs to be a Star Trek Attack-wing 2.0.

Fixed it for you, actually there needs to be a Star Trek Armada.

I don't think we need a 2.0. Heck the Core set is already a I wouldn't call it a X-wing 1.5. The TFA core set is more like an X-wing 1.1. Well I think we are in X-wing 1.4.2.3 is good enough. We don't need X-wing 2.0.

Well, Attack Wing is getting a rules overhaul. It is sort of telling that no one here is paying attention to that game.

I mean it needs to be overhauled to where it matches more of Armada instead of X-wing. But that is getting off on a tangent. Back on topic.

The problem with that, is that some of those cards are equally used to make previously or otherwise uncompetitive ships, competitive. Like take Biggs. Without Biggs, ARC-170s absolutely would be completely worthless. Biggs is the ONLY REASON that ARCs see table time, and most of the stuff that kills them is stuff that isnt even on your list of stuff to ban. If you think Rebel squad building is cramped now, imagine it without Biggs, aka, you're locked down to the 3-4 ships that can actually succeed without cover from Biggs.

Honestly i still don't see why people continue to complain about the meta. Wave 9 meta is one of the best metas i've ever been in, and i've been playing since just before Wave 5. The problem isn't that stuff is OP, it's that we have ships that aren't competitive. Otherwise i think overall balance is pretty good, on the whole.

First of all I need to ban the word ban on this thread.

It is not a ban list it is a list of cards that will cost 1 more point than printed in premier tournaments. You can still play that list (unless it was exactly at 100 points). It is a small change that isn't permanent. So while stuff becomes uncompetitive as it is displaced by the latest wave it would simply be off the list.

The problem with that, is that some of those cards are equally used to make previously or otherwise uncompetitive ships, competitive. Like take Biggs. Without Biggs, ARC-170s absolutely would be completely worthless. Biggs is the ONLY REASON that ARCs see table time, and most of the stuff that kills them is stuff that isnt even on your list of stuff to ban. If you think Rebel squad building is cramped now, imagine it without Biggs, aka, you're locked down to the 3-4 ships that can actually succeed without cover from Biggs.

Honestly i still don't see why people continue to complain about the meta. Wave 9 meta is one of the best metas i've ever been in, and i've been playing since just before Wave 5. The problem isn't that stuff is OP, it's that we have ships that aren't competitive. Otherwise i think overall balance is pretty good, on the whole.

I must disagree that ARCs are only seen with Biggs. I've seen a few lists pairing Norra with Rey and doing decent. Give Norra PTL, C-3PO, and R2-D2 and she is hard to chew through. Not impossible, but still useable apart from Biggs.

hard to chew through.... if you're attacked by no more than 2 ships. The first attack will miss, the second will do 1 damage, the third will do 3. Unsustainable. Without Nien Nunb and EU, she's slow(which is why Biggs is so necessary), without Tail Gunner she can't hit out of her rear arc(Norra with Tail Gunner has a higher hit percentage out of her rear arc than her front arc with increasing returns the higher agility your target is, which fits well into using Biggs because you can just run past them and keep letting Biggs take hits while Norra obliterates them from behind), and, without Biggs, she never gets to use her ability offensively, which is where her high damage potential comes from, allowing you to make turn 1-2 alpha strikes. Usable without Biggs =/= as good as having Biggs.

Like others have mentioned, it doesn't address the underlying problems in the game. I can assure you, the main problem started with PWT being too nasty to fight which led to Autothrusters (which are purposely designed to be insanely overpowered) which helped intensify the stacking defense problem with Palpatine and Autothruster aces which led to TLT which led to jousters being a lot weaker to turrets due to TLT efficiency (it's more powerful than primary 3-ATK turret at any range and any amount of defense dice).

First things first, 3-attack primary turrets need to be fixed. I say the cleanest way to do this is with a game rule that states attacking outside your firing arc gives one extra defense die to the defender.

After that, Autothrusters being overpowered is no longer a necessity. Right now it is a necessary evil, a band-aid fix.

Other outliers include...

TLT (either double 2-atk dice or just range 2)

Powerful global utility (Manaroo & Palpatine range restrictions)

Tie/x7 (should be speed 4 and above)

stress stacking (which by proxy fixes a lot of other things like Zuckuss, Dengaroo to an extent, etc.)