So thinking of a balancing tool that FFG OP could use for balance concerns with the meta. In Android:Netrunner there is a Most Wanted list which if you use a card on the list you spend 1 more influence (think of them as points) to add them to your deck. THIS IS NOT A BAN LIST!!!!!!! Every card on that list is playable it would just cost 1 more point . The list can be changed ever year or even after each release.

How we would implement this into X-wing, simply you put some pilot or upgrades cards that tends to be influencing the meta a little too much. Then the cards on that list are considered +1 squadron points in premier events.

For example lets say put (for example only not a suggestion) Veteran instincts on that list. Well in premier tournaments (Nationals, Worlds, ect.) Veteran Instincts will be wort 2 points instead of 2. Then the next wave swarms took over the meta so VI is not as powerful as it used to be. VI is removed from the list and it is back to 1 point in all matches. Or say Biggs could be put on the list (again an example not a suggestion) Biggs Darklighter would be cost 26 points (as well as be worth 26 points for MOV). Then after the X-wing domination has passed (imaginary scenario) Biggs would be off the list and back to 25 points.

Well what do you think, and if there was this "Most Wanted" list what would you put on it (remember the list only adds 1 point, so no making Emperor Palpatine 10 or more points).

So here is a list of some of the suggestions taken from this thread to put on it.

• Manaroo
• Biggs Darklighter
• Countess Ryad
• Omicron Group Pilot (targeting Emperor Palpatine)
• Push the Limits
• Zuckuss <crew>
• Twin Laser Turret
• Plasma Torpedoes (in place of Extra Munitions)
• Atani Mindlink

Agree or disagree? Missing something?

Brought up from another page

Well to see the effects of what the most wanted list will do, take a look at list juggler and apply the "tax" and see which lists will still be less than 100 points, which list will add up to 100 points which list will need to drop a 2 point upgrade and which list will need an overhaul. The target with this list is to take the top and put it to 100 points or 102 points where a 2-3 point upgrade is dropped to get back down to standard. However taking a look at seattle regionals, the effect on the top four would be as follows.

• Champion +4 points (Manaroo + 3 attini mindlinks,104 points, would need an overhaul)
• Runner +4 points (4 TLTs, 104 points would need to drop seismic charge and R3-A2 or overhaul)
• Top 4 +2 points (Biggs and TLT, would need to drop an upgrade)
• Top 4 +0 points (no effect)

So as you see there is an effect on the tournament results but it doesn't effect all the lists. I agree you don't want 20 or so pilot/upgrade cards on the list. A few to no more than a dozen is all it would take to bring balance to the meta. And that is plane and simple letting the game be well enough. The design space for X-wing is getting crowded . This is a very simple system to allow for adjustments in that design space without resulting to hard pen and ink change errata which FFG has already felt like it had to resort to to keep the game balanced.

Especially in a game like this, the Banned/Restricted list is a much better way to go. As a Netrunner player, I understand the need for the Most Wanted List, but it really is more complicated than it needs to be.

What the Most Wanted List does is far more nuanced than what you are mentioning here to be done for X-wing. What you are proposing is essentially errata to point cost.

Especially in a game like this, the Banned/Restricted list is a much better way to go. As a Netrunner player, I understand the need for the Most Wanted List, but it really is more complicated than it needs to be.

What the Most Wanted List does is far more nuanced than what you are mentioning here to be done for X-wing. What you are proposing is essentially errata to point cost.

More of a temporary eratta. Again as soon as a pilot or upgrade is no longer directing the meta it is taken off the list. As far as ban/restricted list I found that they are less popular and players don't like being told they cannot bring something they might have just bought.

Now I have thought of making it for Pilot upgrade combos as in the cost of the upgrade card won't increase unless it was paired with a certain pilot. however coming up with that list is too time consuming and cumbersome (even with the help of list juggler).

So which pilot or upgrade do you think needs to be put on the list?

I would see such a solution as a cosmetic solution. Tournaments are one aspect of the game. If there is a balance issue there, it means that the game as a whole has a problem. The tournament just amplifies it. So solving the issue in such a way that it doesn't show up any more at those tournaments is not really a solution, even if it satisfies the players who only look at this game in terms of how well something does at regionals.

Some upgrade combination restrictions would at least be interesting. Like "If you run Palpatine, you may only use one x7 card in your list", "If you use Manaroo, Zuckuss may not be part of your list" (to cover the obvious candidates).

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

Hey don't ban my 6 bomb Miranda!! she just cant hack it with only a paltry 3 bombs, i might need to stick a TLT on her or something

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

Why, though? Manaroo is fine on her own. Munitions and bombs don't work well without EM (you'd basicaly remove them). Manaroo is no problem when she isn't feeding Dengar with Zuckuss. Zuckuss is no problem when he isn't fed full mods on a 3 dice turret that gets to shoot twice in arc. Palpatine isn't a huge problem if he isn't added to ships that can mitigate most damage on their own already. PTL? Strong and dominating for sure, but the ships that use it also depend on it.

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

Why, though? Manaroo is fine on her own. Munitions and bombs don't work well without EM (you'd basicaly remove them). Manaroo is no problem when she isn't feeding Dengar with Zuckuss. Zuckuss is no problem when he isn't fed full mods on a 3 dice turret that gets to shoot twice in arc. Palpatine isn't a huge problem if he isn't added to ships that can mitigate most damage on their own already. PTL? Strong and dominating for sure, but the ships that use it also depend on it.

Manaroo with Mindlink is a problem. You're focused on Dengaroo but the new gen of Mindlinked lists are beating Dengaroo out of the meta and are already poised to take over. Zuckuss has a suppressive effect on ships with high agility. He's sitting very powerfully on the party bus and driving a lot of ships out of the meta so absolutely not just a Manaroo thing. You can't potentially halve the strength of green dice without warping the meta considerably so leaving Zuckuss around is just a ticking timebomb for something else bringing him up. Palpatine may not be 'a problem' but pretty much any Imperial list benefits from him being there, and that will continue to be true - take him out and you get more diversity.

It's not just about 'what's a problem right now' but also 'if you stripped the top off the tier pyramid what becomes the next problem'?

At the moment it's not just Defenders holding down ships, it's the big attacks that people are swinging to kill Defenders. That's what nipping Ordnance back a bit is about. PTL is always waiting to be a problem, there's pretty much no ship that makes good use of it that isn't borderline too good or frustrating to play against - in the end it's just a lazy EPT choice and if you took it out of the game then you'd see a lot more diversity. Same for taking out Crack Shot, because although TIE Swarms aren't around any more when you took the other stuff out they'd be back and spending 6 points to delete an opponent's ship with 6 Crack Shots is not a very fun game.

It's trying to flatten the power pyramid off so that the discrepancy between top and bottom isn't so great. Take away the no-brainer efficiency choices and let's have some variety.

Palp and Manaroo would be simply fixed by slapping a range restriction on them both.

When it comes to something like Zuckuss there does need to be some sort of way to impose an extra penalty for having a mountain of stress beyond a certain number like after 4 you can only perform greens until below 4 or what ever number is settled upon. With the obvious exception of Tycho since that is his thing

Has anyone actually seen a party bus since the U-Boat nerf? I have only seen strong, but certainly not broken Bossk variants.

Palp and Manaroo would be simply fixed by slapping a range restriction on them both.

When it comes to something like Zuckuss there does need to be some sort of way to impose an extra penalty for having a mountain of stress beyond a certain number like after 4 you can only perform greens until below 4 or what ever number is settled upon. With the obvious exception of Tycho since that is his thing

Zuckuss is easy to do without modifying his point cost or creating a new mechanic. Add "If you aren't stressed ..." to his card. Then you have to clear his stress before using him again. No more infinite stress mountains.

Every list is broken. Ban everything.

Has anyone actually seen a party bus since the U-Boat nerf? I have only seen strong, but certainly not broken Bossk variants.

Oh yes, many.

Party Bus can do a number on an x7 Defender in the first pass. I've had a full health Ryad one-shotted off the board by a Bossk Party Bus.

A restricted list, imo, is a better solution to an outright banlist. You can only have one restricted element (pilot/upgrade card) in any one list. That could stop some of the power combos without limiting players from using their purchases in tournaments if they still wanted to.

Just to clarify something, regionals do not fall under the "Premeir" level of events. The premier level is only worlds, nationals, and North American championships.

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

Why, though? Manaroo is fine on her own. Munitions and bombs don't work well without EM (you'd basicaly remove them). Manaroo is no problem when she isn't feeding Dengar with Zuckuss. Zuckuss is no problem when he isn't fed full mods on a 3 dice turret that gets to shoot twice in arc. Palpatine isn't a huge problem if he isn't added to ships that can mitigate most damage on their own already. PTL? Strong and dominating for sure, but the ships that use it also depend on it.

Manaroo with Mindlink is a problem. You're focused on Dengaroo but the new gen of Mindlinked lists are beating Dengaroo out of the meta and are already poised to take over. Zuckuss has a suppressive effect on ships with high agility. He's sitting very powerfully on the party bus and driving a lot of ships out of the meta so absolutely not just a Manaroo thing. You can't potentially halve the strength of green dice without warping the meta considerably so leaving Zuckuss around is just a ticking timebomb for something else bringing him up. Palpatine may not be 'a problem' but pretty much any Imperial list benefits from him being there, and that will continue to be true - take him out and you get more diversity.

It's not just about 'what's a problem right now' but also 'if you stripped the top off the tier pyramid what becomes the next problem'?

At the moment it's not just Defenders holding down ships, it's the big attacks that people are swinging to kill Defenders. That's what nipping Ordnance back a bit is about. PTL is always waiting to be a problem, there's pretty much no ship that makes good use of it that isn't borderline too good or frustrating to play against - in the end it's just a lazy EPT choice and if you took it out of the game then you'd see a lot more diversity. Same for taking out Crack Shot, because although TIE Swarms aren't around any more when you took the other stuff out they'd be back and spending 6 points to delete an opponent's ship with 6 Crack Shots is not a very fun game.

It's trying to flatten the power pyramid off so that the discrepancy between top and bottom isn't so great. Take away the no-brainer efficiency choices and let's have some variety.

I would play in such an enviroment, however you have to be carefull at what point do you remove too much? Mindlink lists are very popular - will they be substentialy weaker without Manaroo? I doubt it. PTL is dominant, but some ships just don't work well without it - Carnor Jax needs his focus mods on Defense! At some point shaking up the meta alienates players too much.

Every list is broken. Ban everything.

Oh, absolutely. Exactly the feeling I get when I keep seeing these threads. And the whole X-Wing 2.0 discussion. Go away from my game

Yeah, it would be amazing if I nailed the correct list first time out but probably I didn't.

Mindlink without Manaroo exists, but it's a cut below the Manaroo versions. I mean the intent isn't to stop anybody playing Mindlink, it's just to tune them down 10% so that they're closer to the other stuff. Carnor is actually the perfect example of a pilot who doesn't 'need' PTL - the most successful Carnor versions at the moment are just VI/Autothrusters, I believe.

Taking PTL out is the one that's most personal to me. I just think the game gets much more interesting if people have to think more creatively for their action economy. I mean if you take all the rest out and don't touch PTL then it just turns into a wall of Tom Reed's double Caster list from Worlds because it has nuts action economy. Taking PTL out drops the power level of all the ships with crazy greens on their dial, increasing the relative power level of older ships with their more restrictive dials.

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

After you ban this list, I am sure you will have another list of ships that beat you once to ban...

I think a restricted list would do wonders for the game, when you see more Palp/Denfender or Defender/X on the tables than anything else, it is needed.

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

After you ban this list, I am sure you will have another list of ships that beat you once to ban...

Maybe. I mean the entire history of other games introducing banned lists suggests that's not the case... but ok. Could happen.

Yeah, it would be amazing if I nailed the correct list first time out but probably I didn't.

Mindlink without Manaroo exists, but it's a cut below the Manaroo versions. I mean the intent isn't to stop anybody playing Mindlink, it's just to tune them down 10% so that they're closer to the other stuff. Carnor is actually the perfect example of a pilot who doesn't 'need' PTL - the most successful Carnor versions at the moment are just VI/Autothrusters, I believe.

Taking PTL out is the one that's most personal to me. I just think the game gets much more interesting if people have to think more creatively for their action economy. I mean if you take all the rest out and don't touch PTL then it just turns into a wall of Tom Reed's double Caster list from Worlds because it has nuts action economy. Taking PTL out drops the power level of all the ships with crazy greens on their dial, increasing the relative power level of older ships with their more restrictive dials.

The VI variant was popular in wave 7s as anti-palpace tech, nowadays it is probably not as good since Defenders dropped overall PS. Expertise is interesting and now that you mention the VI variant I have a bit more hope for that. It might really not be that important.

I am on board with removing PTL, but I imagine many people won't.

A restricted list would really be better. If Manaroo with Mindlink proves to be a problem going forward then she can be banned from that as well. PTL could be restricted to TIE Interceptors and A-Wings (and maybe others).

If you just want to see the most cost efficient generics played, just say so already.

Palp and Manaroo would be simply fixed by slapping a range restriction on them both.

When it comes to something like Zuckuss there does need to be some sort of way to impose an extra penalty for having a mountain of stress beyond a certain number like after 4 you can only perform greens until below 4 or what ever number is settled upon. With the obvious exception of Tycho since that is his thing

Just pull on your big boy pants and ban stuff. They can be unbanned in future if need be, but bannings are the cleanest route.

• Manaroo
• Palpatine
• Biggs
• Ryad
• Zuckuss
• Push The Limit
• Crack Shot
• Extra Munitions

After you ban this list, I am sure you will have another list of ships that beat you once to ban...