CCL: Rebel expansion submissions (due Feb 1)

By Babaganoosh, in X-Wing

16 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

Can attach Eon files to dropbox if you really need. , and quite frankly we can easily ask Forum admins to ask for EON file attachment to the forums, considering the use.

You can easily ask them to do it, doesnt mean they easily can, will, should, or have a need to.

Consider this.

Theres like, 20 of us that regularly use strange eons for this whole thing. That doesnt classify as significant use.

How exactly to you propose that Fantasy Flight Games, a tabletop game company that likely does not have experienced coders in their employ, hand-code in an attachment module for a highly custom file format used by exactly 1 program across the entire internet? What would doing that accomplish? SE is the only thing that is capable of interpreting what is in those files into usable data because it's got the software features to do it. The .eon file is more than just what's inside it, it's integrated into SE because the file itself is designed to be edited by specifically SE. The .eon isn't just a file, it's an extension of the SE program. It's simply not plausable, and if it were, i doubt whoever would be capable of doing it works at FFG, wants to waste their time with that, or would ever be ordered to do it.

"But just allow all file types to be uploaded at will!" This isn't a filehosting site. FFG has a finite amount of data on their forum servers that can't simply be wasted on letting users upload whatever files they need when they can just host those same files elsewhere and post the link.

I'm still not, also, entirely sure how attaching them to dropbox is any less work for anyone involved than emailing the identical files to them.

8 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

What's wrong with the clawcraft?!?!?!?! I don't especially want a naboo fighter either, but wouldn't be the end of the world if it wins. I just...won't fly it :P

My issue with the Clawcraft is it looks so out of place in the Rebel faction. It is an imperial design through and through. I don't really like that the rebels even have a "stolen" tie, so having a full fledged member of the team being an imperial ship just rubs me the totally wrong way.

Also It looks like I wont have time to piece together the cards on Eons as I'm pretty swamped with that thing called "life" right now, so you guys probably don't have anything to worry about anyways.

Hopefully that means that those of us who entered "Rebel new ship" of good enough quality get third entry. I relly have my hoped on the Rebel and Imperial ace packs- rebel new ship is just a sidesshow.

14 hours ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Listen i'd make a T-Wing, i have all the material i need, but i'd have to either get permission for 1 more expac, or i'd have to cancel submission for one.

You're at 3 submissions now, right? The max limit with exceptions is 4. Were you planning to submit expansions for scum or rebels?

If you collaborate with someone and they're the lead designer (nominally) that would also be fine.

17 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Given the rough competition for Rebel ace pack, I've gotta wonder... Of course, no NEW ships for Ace packs, but can I make a Blister for an Old ship? Thinking of moving my Bwing fixes to a less crowded field.

A custom ship has to be an entirely new ship. You could consider making the B-wing MKII; which is what the rebel transport in episode 7 is based on.

A bit late now.

Just now, Rakaydos said:

A bit late now.

Yeah. Not impossible if you had a good amount of free time between now and tomorrow though. It would be hard to submit a quality expansion in that time, though.

I'm too busy watching the world burn. /politics

6 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

A bit late now.

But what if i said i've had T-Wing components sitting around for almost a year...?

Hehehe.

Done. T-Wing submitted.

T-wing is up:

T-wing (Custom Ship)

If you've submitted an expansion, please check the linked submission on the first thread for accuracy. The Ewoks I have tasked to compiling CCL submissions are notoriously unreliable.

Edited by Babaganoosh

Gave my N-1 pilots a 2 point reduction across the board. Royal Guard is now cheaper than Green Squadron with 1 less EPT and access to astromech slot.

Edited by Rakaydos

Is this some official thing? Or just people picking what they think would be cool for fun?

5 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:

Is this some official thing? Or just people picking what they think would be cool for fun?

Not FFG spnsored, but the highest voted of these entries will be added to Vassal so we can use them online.

3 hours ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

Done. T-Wing submitted.

Easily my favorite of your expansions submitted Razgriz. All the cards seem very well thought out and are easily understood and grasped just as a good expansion should be. The stat line, cost (although I think it could go for 1 less point on the PS 2) and dial all help me see this as what it was perceived as in universe- a poor man's A-wing with a mech.

One complaint is (and you aren't the first to do this), Salvo Loadout must be removed the instant it is equipped because it gives the ship a 2nd torp slot, meaning it can no longer be equipped. Also, it is essentially Extra Munitions except it fills the mod slot instead of the torp slot. I think we can salvage it though by finding a way to make it a combo card that is a little bit EM and a little bit GCs without making it too powerful.

Perhaps have the text read like this?

"When equipping this card, place one ordnance token on an equipped <torpedo icon> upgrade. When you are instructed to discard a <torpedo icon>, you may discard the ordnance token on that card instead.

If you only have 1 <torpedo icon> on your upgrade bar, when performing an attack with an equipped <torpedo icon>, you may change 1 die result to a <crit> result."

I think it could even still be fine at 0 points, as outside of the Deci, Fang and ARC (all ships that will have a hard time giving up their mod slot), are struggling ships as is (Xwing, Ewing, Firespray). And if a ship has more than 1 torp icon, they get very little value out of it and wont bother equipping it over EMs +GCs or LRS since torps desperately need that extra mod.

But... it's probably too late to change anything now anyways haha. Sorry for the late feedback!

Edited by Kdubb
4 hours ago, Babaganoosh said:

The Ewoks I have tasked to compiling CCL submissions are notoriously unreliable.


That's what happens when they keep getting slaughtered and replaced. Never enough time to get the newbies trained up proper.

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

Easily my favorite of your expansions submitted Razgriz. All the cards seem very well thought out and are easily understood and grasped just as a good expansion should be. The stat line, cost (although I think it could go for 1 less point on the PS 2) and dial all help me see this as what it was perceived as in universe- a poor man's A-wing with a mech.

One complaint is (and you aren't the first to do this), Salvo Loadout must be removed the instant it is equipped because it gives the ship a 2nd torp slot, meaning it can no longer be equipped. Also, it is essentially Extra Munitions except it fills the mod slot instead of the torp slot. I think we can salvage it though by finding a way to make it a combo card that is a little bit EM and a little bit GCs without making it too powerful.

Perhaps have the text read like this?

"When equipping this card, place one ordnance token on an equipped <torpedo icon> upgrade. When you are instructed to discard a <torpedo icon>, you may discard the ordnance token on that card instead.

If you only have 1 <torpedo icon> on your upgrade bar, when performing an attack with an equipped <torpedo icon>, you may change 1 die result to a <crit> result."

I think it could even still be fine at 0 points, as outside of the Deci, Fang and ARC (all ships that will have a hard time giving up their mod slot), are struggling ships as is (Xwing, Ewing, Firespray). And if a ship has more than 1 torp icon, they get very little value out of it and wont bother equipping it over EMs +GCs or LRS since torps desperately need that extra mod.

But... it's probably too late to change anything now anyways haha. Sorry for the late feedback!

My two biggest complains are that, as you said, it's basically just an a-wing with a mech instead of a bonus ept (and torpedo instead of a missile), and that it has a random made-up (as far as I can tell, not seeing in a quick google or wookiepedia search) PS9 pilot. I'm not opposed to new PS9 pilots, but I feel like that PS should be reserved for known pilots from the universe that deserve to be at that level, though that's mainly personal preference, others might disagree.

Also seems weird that the PS2 is the same cost as the PS1 a-wing, while the PS9 t-wing is 1 poing CHEAPER than the PS8 tycho. Haven't dug into it enough to say whether the PS2 is overcosted or the PS9 is undercosted... Based on the lack of a-wings in the meta and the underperformance of 2-attack ships in general right now, probably the PS2 being overcosted (as kdubb said).

As for Salvo Loadout, the wording reads fine to me (maybe change it to "if you have exactly 1 {torpedo} slot}. You wouldn't have to remove it immediately as Kdubb suggests, because you only check requirements for equipping an upgrade when you are putting it on in the first place, yo udon't keep checking. You don't lose an upgrade that requires a min PS if you become PS0 for example.

As for Kdubb's suggestion for it, if you were to make it a combined EM + guidance chips, I would make it just convert a hit to a crit instead of any die. Getting a free second torpedo AND a free super-GC is rather powerful, and at the very least would need to be a lot more than 1 point (given that EM alone is 2 points, and GC only gives you a crit if you're attack 3+).

I do like both pilot abilities. Berserker tactics is an interesting control card.

Targeting computer gives a good option for ships that aren't using their modification slot, but I wonder if it's too cheap. Compare it to the existing Targeting Computer for instance, TC just adds the action to your bar for 2 points. This one is a point cheaper and doesn't use your action, just gives you a free TL. Main limitations being that it's before move and only in arc , so if you start out of range it doesn't work. But put this on a soontir for instance (since some people run him with Targeting Computer anyway), and now you get a free TL before you move, then still get your normal double focus + evade (or repositioning, etc of course). Hard to say though since it is different and I haven't playtested so it's all theoretical :P.

I really like r5-e2

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback! Lemme give some responses of my own and see what you guys think. I do have until the end of the day to make adjustments(AFAIK), so i wanna take full advantage of that.

5 hours ago, Kdubb said:

Easily my favorite of your expansions submitted Razgriz. All the cards seem very well thought out and are easily understood and grasped just as a good expansion should be. The stat line, cost (although I think it could go for 1 less point on the PS 2) and dial all help me see this as what it was perceived as in universe- a poor man's A-wing with a mech.

One complaint is (and you aren't the first to do this), Salvo Loadout must be removed the instant it is equipped because it gives the ship a 2nd torp slot, meaning it can no longer be equipped. Also, it is essentially Extra Munitions except it fills the mod slot instead of the torp slot. I think we can salvage it though by finding a way to make it a combo card that is a little bit EM and a little bit GCs without making it too powerful.

Perhaps have the text read like this?

"When equipping this card, place one ordnance token on an equipped <torpedo icon> upgrade. When you are instructed to discard a <torpedo icon>, you may discard the ordnance token on that card instead.

If you only have 1 <torpedo icon> on your upgrade bar, when performing an attack with an equipped <torpedo icon>, you may change 1 die result to a <crit> result."

I think it could even still be fine at 0 points, as outside of the Deci, Fang and ARC (all ships that will have a hard time giving up their mod slot), are struggling ships as is (Xwing, Ewing, Firespray). And if a ship has more than 1 torp icon, they get very little value out of it and wont bother equipping it over EMs +GCs or LRS since torps desperately need that extra mod.

But... it's probably too late to change anything now anyways haha. Sorry for the late feedback!

Thank you! It's been hanging around in my files for a long time, glad i can finally share it.

That's a good point. It would be less roundabout your way anyways, even if it would technically work as-is. Given that the modification slot is far more valuable than the torpedo slot, i could see it being cheaper than EM as well, as you're skipping out on AT, VT, Chips, etc. I'd definitely charge at least 1 point, though.

3 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

My two biggest complains are that, as you said, it's basically just an a-wing with a mech instead of a bonus ept (and torpedo instead of a missile), and that it has a random made-up (as far as I can tell, not seeing in a quick google or wookiepedia search) PS9 pilot. I'm not opposed to new PS9 pilots, but I feel like that PS should be reserved for known pilots from the universe that deserve to be at that level, though that's mainly personal preference, others might disagree.

Also seems weird that the PS2 is the same cost as the PS1 a-wing, while the PS9 t-wing is 1 poing CHEAPER than the PS8 tycho. Haven't dug into it enough to say whether the PS2 is overcosted or the PS9 is undercosted... Based on the lack of a-wings in the meta and the underperformance of 2-attack ships in general right now, probably the PS2 being overcosted (as kdubb said).

As for Salvo Loadout, the wording reads fine to me (maybe change it to "if you have exactly 1 {torpedo} slot}. You wouldn't have to remove it immediately as Kdubb suggests, because you only check requirements for equipping an upgrade when you are putting it on in the first place, yo udon't keep checking. You don't lose an upgrade that requires a min PS if you become PS0 for example.

As for Kdubb's suggestion for it, if you were to make it a combined EM + guidance chips, I would make it just convert a hit to a crit instead of any die. Getting a free second torpedo AND a free super-GC is rather powerful, and at the very least would need to be a lot more than 1 point (given that EM alone is 2 points, and GC only gives you a crit if you're attack 3+).

I do like both pilot abilities. Berserker tactics is an interesting control card.

Targeting computer gives a good option for ships that aren't using their modification slot, but I wonder if it's too cheap. Compare it to the existing Targeting Computer for instance, TC just adds the action to your bar for 2 points. This one is a point cheaper and doesn't use your action, just gives you a free TL. Main limitations being that it's before move and only in arc , so if you start out of range it doesn't work. But put this on a soontir for instance (since some people run him with Targeting Computer anyway), and now you get a free TL before you move, then still get your normal double focus + evade (or repositioning, etc of course). Hard to say though since it is different and I haven't playtested so it's all theoretical :P.

I really like r5-e2

I agree, the design space for it being just an A-Wing with a mech is inherently limited. I tried to include things like R5-E2, Salvo, and the IN-344 to spice up it's role and attack power, and organized it's dial to be good, less maneuverable than an A-Wing, but with lots of potential from both things like R2 and R2-D2. I feel that the end result allows for a decent amount of variance in what it's capable of, just because it has the mech and torps instead of missiles. Torps allow for a cheap, hard hitting, blazing fast interceptor to get in range, dump it's torps with increased action efficiency, and scurry out of range. If you want an ace, you've got two good, high PS pilots with good abilities and lots of defensive upgrade options. This works balance wise because it's not hard to kill a ship with 4 HP with few defensive mods, unlike last season with the gunboats who had double that HP at 1 point LESS.

The PS9 pilot is only made up because i wasnt able to find any other named T-Wing pilots. I'd replace her in a heartbeat if someone could bung a good T-Wing pilot my way.

Well, the general consensus is that Tycho was overcosted by a point anyways, his PS+Unique cost should be 25. Since the T-Wing is cheaper than the A-Wing by 1 point in base cost, Mari ends up costing 1 point less than Tycho.

For the computer, i specifically made it knowing the capabilities of Rebel ships. Most rebel ships that aren't A-Wings(or this ship) aren't known for ridiculous maneuverability and action efficiency. If this card were cross-factional, there'd be hella problems. I think this card only works because it says Rebel Only. I do see your point, however. Incidentally, i really like this card on Norra Wexley, but you give up VT to get it. You could take this card, and the EPT of your choice instead of PTL. That'd be awesome.

That, and super powerful ships like Corran, for example, won't take it because that means no EU. Ships with boost would probably rather have Autothrusters. The primary use of this, in my opinion, boils down to generics who want better action efficiency, and ordnance lists. But it's designed to have it's own drawbacks such as arc and movement limitations to reign in how powerful it could be.

Anyways, if anyone could give me the name of an actual T-Wing pilot, or at least a real character who could feasibly have piloted a T-Wing who was really good, hit me up with that.

Edited by Razgriz25thinf
11 hours ago, Babaganoosh said:

If you've submitted an expansion, please check the linked submission on the first thread for accuracy. The Ewoks I have tasked to compiling CCL submissions are notoriously unreliable.

I clicked on mine (Rebel Veterans) and it only loads the first page and won't load the others.

N-1 Naboo Starfighter has formatting issues, including an entire blank page and plenty of wasted space.

7 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

As for Salvo Loadout, the wording reads fine to me (maybe change it to "if you have exactly 1 {torpedo} slot}. You wouldn't have to remove it immediately as Kdubb suggests, because you only check requirements for equipping an upgrade when you are putting it on in the first place, yo udon't keep checking. You don't lose an upgrade that requires a min PS if you become PS0 for example.

Is there an upgrade that makes you PS 0? If so, I'm not aware of it. I know there are crit cards that do this in game, but that is a totally different discussion as in game occurrence act totally different from outside game occurrences.I would say it seems pretty clear that for cards which create an instant "transformation", that transformation immediately exists. Let's say for example that Adaptability forced you to choose if you went up or down in PS in listbuilding, and you selected to go down. You could then no longer equip cards which required a PS of the pilots original skill (much like Snap can't equip Black One without VI).

A prime example of a similar interaction is the Tie Shuttle title. If you equip torpedoes first, before you physically place on the Tie Shuttle title, can you then keep those torpedoes when you put the Tie Shuttle title on? Of course not, because the instant you equip the Tie Shuttle, those torpedoes become invalid, or the Tie Shuttle title becomes invalid. Now, because Salvo loadout is instantaneously doing two things at once which contradict the other, one can argue that they simply don't interact because they occur simultaneously. But this is false as the instant a card is equipped, ALL criteria must be met at all times for it to be legal up until the game begins (in which case in game interactions can at points in niche cases allow for "illegal" combos to occur, but ONLY in game is this the case).

One way to circumvent the issue if you want to keep the wording the same without running into the catch-22 issue is you can use the word "printed" to indicate that there is only 1 torpedo slot physically visible on the card. So something like "If there is only 1 PRINTED <torpedo icon> on this ships upgrade bar..."

I will say though that if someone can point me to somewhere in the rulebook that can prove otherwise, I would be perfectly fine with being corrected by an official source.

1 hour ago, InterceptorMad said:

I clicked on mine (Rebel Veterans) and it only loads the first page and won't load the others.

Hmm; it was still showing up all right for me, but I went ahead and replaced the doc file with a pdf, which may be easier to view and download. Let me know if you're still having issues.

12 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

Hmm; it was still showing up all right for me, but I went ahead and replaced the doc file with a pdf, which may be easier to view and download. Let me know if you're still having issues.

All the pages load ok now, but it doesn't load/has lost my 3 custom upgrade card images (bottom of page 3)

Try now?

Rebel Veterans

3 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

Try now?

Rebel Veterans

Looks OK to me.