UPS, protectorate, and I think even the TUG to some extent will impact this meta. It's just taking longer and longer to run all the options to find THAT option that is best. And that's all a very good thing.

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

So Defenders.

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

Problem is Palp is so universal, just putting him with other ships makes those ships much more powerful. Defenders didn't became a thing until they got the titles and that made them powerful in their own right. However a triple defender list didn't show up because Palp defenders were just overall better.

I remember back in the Wave 4-5 meta where C-3PO was the main source of misery. I think Major juggler did the math on how C-3PO was able to adjust the jousting value of a 1 agility ship just by ensuring you will roll 1 evade.Pair that with the title for an evade action and you are guaranteed to stop 2 hits a turn. The solution was TLT, an attack that threw more red dice than the green dice and tokens could cancel, but maxes out at only 2 face down damage.

Now C-3PO wasn't as strong as palp. It only cost 3 points and a command slot but it could only defend itself, not others. Palp can not only defend himself and all other ships but also increase their attack. Furthermore he can be used after a dice roll. The cost is a premium at 8 points and 2 crew slots, but there is no doubt that price is considered a bargain for Imperial players.

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

So Defenders.

Defenders are a good example. However, Defenders also go well with Palp because their defense is dice-related (heavily modified dice though they may be). For something to not go well with Palp, it has to not have dependency on dice for its defenses. Offense is usually less important.

Notice I said K-Things as I sure as hell won't spell those out. also note "I don't mind Palp existing as I prefer playing ships with mines now". What do you think those ships are?

Is it? When you only have one agility, the TLT firer only needs one hit to get a 50/50 shot at damage, and two hits for guaranteed damage. That is huge, and can save them the use of a LOT of dice modification simply because they don't need to generate additional hits, whereas against higher agility ships, they will.

In the TLT/B-Wing matchup you describe, considering the above, and how relatively immobile the B-Wing is, it's a safe bet that should a TLT list and a B-Wing list meet, the TLT's will be shooting more often and doing more consistent damage - although the B's have the potential to do more, they have to work harder to get it (through acquiring arc and necessary modifications), and I think the first B will go down before the first Y, especially considering they actually have the same amount of total health, just divided differently (so the B-Wing has no advantage there) and nothing is likely to be PS-sniped (if we are assuming a 4BZ VS 4xTLT match here).

Low agility ships *are* preyed on by TLT's because the TLT carrier has to work far less hard to get the consistent damage the TLT is so good at. The difference between now and when the TLT first arrived is that few, if anyone, flys the all-TLT spam list any more, and when there are only one or two TLT's in a list it's easier for low agility ships to avoid them, kill them first, or get into the Range 1 'bubble' without being overlapped by accompanying TLT ranges.

Believe me that I have played lots of TIE Bombers. Yes, they can beat Palpaces by punching through the aces well, but they can't do it reliably since often they just glance off a lucky green dice wall. I stopped taking them into serious competition because of this, it is too frustrating to lose so hard on variance. And lose hard they do, they can't recover well from those blowouts.

Which is precisely why I clarified that in my paragraph about them, and how even if they arn't dropping those shots onto the Aces, they can make good use of them at the shuttle (which won't last long against that kind of firepower and is hardly going to dodge it) or to create areas the Aces don't want to go - sure, they could chance it and hope their defences save them, but I'd be willing to bet that most Palp Aces players are much too cautious to take that risk - which makes sense, since reducing risk is the whole idea behind those kinds of lists.

If you're referring to an entire list of munitions-carrying TIE Bombers, then yes, it's unlikely to make much impact at a competitive level because of that variance, and I'd say that's not specific to the Palpatine matchup but rather every game they participate in - either your munitions tear the opponent apart early, or they don't and then you die. Neither is anything to do with Palpatine.

I keep reading he's 29 points of your list. No, he's 8 points and the other 21 points is invested in an incredibly efficient ship. The ONLY weakness the Lambda has is it's dial (and it is a big weakness). It's not like that 29 points is providing nothing other than Palpatine's ability. It's providing 3 attack offense, 10HP that has to be chewed through, and a big base that can do some excellent board control. I would suggest going to watch some of Dom Cairo's vassal games from a year and a half ago to see how excellent the shuttle can be if flown well.

In a roundabout way, this is exactly what I was saying in my first post - that Palpatine has a minimum investment and that you need to get more out of the shuttle than just him for it to be worth it, and with the dial as horrendous as the Lambda's is, it requires a great deal of skill (beyond my own in that field) to fly it effectively. Just sticking Palp on one and leaving it in a corner or running away is not going to be enough. In turn, this lends strength to my notion that Palpatine is far from an auto-include in Imperial lists simply because he requires more practice and planning to get good use out of him, rather than just being able to stick him in any list and do fine because of him.

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

Problem is Palp is so universal, just putting him with other ships makes those ships much more powerful.

Not necessarily true. You don't see Palp flying with Bombers or SF's because their defense with dice is negligible. Plus, their offense is fine without him.

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

Problem is Palp is so universal, just putting him with other ships makes those ships much more powerful. Defenders didn't became a thing until they got the titles and that made them powerful in their own right. However a triple defender list didn't show up because Palp defenders were just overall better.

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

Problem is Palp is so universal, just putting him with other ships makes those ships much more powerful.

Not necessarily true. You don't see Palp flying with Bombers or SF's because their defense with dice is negligible. Plus, their offense is fine without him.

You misunderstand. Palp doesn't make ships good on their own right. It is just ships that are good on their own right become even better. Palp bombers never work because frankly Bombers were never good to begin with (too dependent on munitions without the upgrade slots to build them into something useful). So yeah Bombers + palp won't be making the top 4 anytime soon. The same was said about defenders pre-veterans release. It was either TIE Interceptors with Palp or TIE Advances with palp. Now the fix for TIE Advance came with palp but TIE Interceptors were picking up in the meta before Palp arrived.

Palp doesn't make bad ship builds good, he just make good ship builds that much better, to the point it is better to take him than not.

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

Problem is Palp is so universal, just putting him with other ships makes those ships much more powerful. Defenders didn't became a thing until they got the titles and that made them powerful in their own right. However a triple defender list didn't show up because Palp defenders were just overall better.

Not quite. As pointed out above, there are plenty of 3 defender lists (or 2 defender lists+ a third) that are just plain doing fine.

The problem with Palp is that he's reactive. You manage to somehow sneak a hit through on that evasive tokened-up ace with lots of agility - lol, nope, Palp to the rescue. This makes him feel extremely powerful, because his modification can be used when he's needed most and once you see the complete set of results.

The problem with Palp is that he's reactive. You manage to somehow sneak a hit through on that evasive tokened-up ace with lots of agility - lol, nope, Palp to the rescue. This makes him feel extremely powerful, because his modification can be used when he's needed most and once you see the complete set of results.

@Marinealver Point granted that Palp doesn't make bad ships good. However, the ships that we used to really identify with Palpaces (Interceptors, Adv. Prototype, Advanced, and Phantoms) are already seeing limited play time because there are very hard counters to them in the game now that don't care about Palp. Nerf Palp, and you guarantee that these ships will not see competitive play for a long time. That would boil down the Imperial faction to just Defenders and Deci's, and would put them in much the same place the Rebels were when Uboats first arrived: starved of viable options save for one or two ships.

I still hold to my position that the answer is to give Imps more ships in the future that do not rely on dice for their defense.

Also, let's keep in mind that just his Upgrade card takes up almost a tenth of your squad. For that price, he better do something awesome.

Well, the reason the new stuff targets those aces and not palp is how do you target an upgrade without either the taboo of upgrades: "X card/effect cant happen" or Boba him out the airlock, which we already know isnt even really worth the effort?

Everything that would hamper Palp would either ONLY work on him (the taboo....) or harshly counter a TON of upgrade cards on the side, making the "fix" an even bigger problem.

Quite frankly even without palp i hate facing soontirs. You either get lucky and blow him up instantly or he just draaaaaaaaaaaaaaags the game out. Im glad theres a bunch of things countering him now PURELY because he can easily extend a game by 30mins if you didnt get lucky right off the bat.

The real thing the Empire needs in future expansions if we want more list diversity from the faction is ships that do not need Palp to stand up on their own. They need to be offensively powerful enough where Palp doesn't matter, and have a defense where Palp isn't necessary (a defense not based around green dice).

So Defenders.

With the current firepower which can take a Palp defender of the board in a single turn, I would say that Defenders are already better off without Palp … most games I see Palp or a defender die in turn 2 or 3. Once this happens those 29 points proof to … well, what would you rather have: Two remaining defenders or a Palp shuttle + Vessery. A third defender at least has a higher survival chance and brings more firepower and defenders don't die simply to dice variance. I think we will see more and more triple defenders instead of Palp defenders in the near future. We already see in general a sharp decline of Palp lists, a lot of people have switched over to Scum Aces lists with Manaroo, myself included and that is not only based on the strength of Mindlink and Manaroo, but as well on the weakness of Palpatine.

Well, the reason the new stuff targets those aces and not palp is how do you target an upgrade without either the taboo of upgrades: "X card/effect cant happen" or Boba him out the airlock, which we already know isnt even really worth the effort?

Everything that would hamper Palp would either ONLY work on him (the taboo....) or harshly counter a TON of upgrade cards on the side, making the "fix" an even bigger problem.

Quite frankly even without palp i hate facing soontirs. You either get lucky and blow him up instantly or he just draaaaaaaaaaaaaaags the game out. Im glad theres a bunch of things countering him now PURELY because he can easily extend a game by 30mins if you didnt get lucky right off the bat.

The only thing that really targets upgrades was Boba Fet<crew>. But you do bring up a point, how do you counter a single unique upgrade card.

My answer is what you would call an assassin build. Assassin are good for taking down 1 ship and only 1 ship to be balance. Usually involves a lot of restrictions (faction or ship) as well as unique and discard mechanic to keep it balanced. Because of the set up it can kill or disable a ship (usually a high health support ship) but after that since it is weaker than the other ship of the line it can't contribute much to the dogfight. It can contribute some, but not replace a stand up fighter. Not to mention the assassin is also vulnerable to being targeted as one would say the best defense is a good offense. Kill the spy in Stratego and your Marshal can reign supreme.

I'll start this post with the idea that I don't really care one way or the other, but I like to articulate the discussion so that it's actually clear what both sides are saying.

I don't think this dance of viability is the way to go. So, you drop palp, and then nobody has much stock to run Lambda (they'll just Run Upsilon instead, which with some of those pilots and upgrades is going to start happening anyway), people will probably not feel good about a lot of the more fragile imperial ace type ships, so it'll go back to defenders. Which for the longest time were not viable in of themselves. Do we (or rather, does FFG) need to keep doing this dance so specific lists are viable? Ships makes sense for players and them. They want people to use what they buy and if they aren't then that's a perfect opportunity for additional product to help move ships up. There's a very strong argument that Palp himself allowed the viability of Shuttle+Two Aces to become real. You pay a shitload of points for his swiss-army-ness, whereas other upgrades cost you less to get similar dice mod elements in more specified conditions.

I know a lot of the palp haters and viability talkers hate "complexity" and want to just slash-n-burn the whole game for some new edition where we'd have this problem all over again, but honestly, I think this is a thing where more expansion of the game will help. Time and variety is needed, The way to help imperial viability and variety is not to kill palpatine directly, but to present them with more options and strategies which are also viable (again, like cards like Stridan or Hux will probably be doing). If there are less choices, the winning strategies to pick will also get smaller. You need to make the game contain more choices, more combinations to prevent equilibrium and present more intransitivity. Only when you end up not introducing variety because a strategy is very clearly dominant and not intransitive should hard nerfs be applied (I/E, U-Boats strategy is so simple and beats so much more than beats it, it reduces variance)

So, you think bring out the Upsilon Shuttle will balance things or have Imperials actually create lists without Palp in them as a real alternative? I don't believe that letting the Upsilon Shuttle into the game is really going to change what people bring to tournaments by too much. Maybe I'm wrong, but we shall just have to see.

Or do you mean that we have to wait until the next wave after 10 to start to see some variety? If that's the case then that's a long time.

Some good discussion happening here.

In response to the bolded, above, I think FFG has made their stance clear: Palp is not going anywhere, but the meta will move on.

Tangent: I think one of the reasons they won't nerf Palp is because he makes (almost) every new Imperial release a potential stock-out opportunity. Ace? Modify his dice, make him invincible! Large-based ship? Fly the Emperor around and make everything else invincible!

So, how are they going to move the meta on from Palpatine? Well they are going to take a look at the other 61 points in those Imperial lists: Aces. Thus, we have the anti-Fel campaign, where FFG has made it their mission to make Aces part of the tried and true Palp Aces a thing of the past:

i) Anti-Ace tech: I don't have the time nor the energy to chronicle each releases since Wave IX designed specifically to kill Soontir Fel. A few of the notables, though, are Zuckuss, BMST, a significant uptick in Tractor beam nonsense (Ketsu and Quadjumper), and combat-relevant stress dealers (Asajj, anything with Rigged Cargo Chute, etc.). BMST got the most hype, Heaver gave Asajj her day, and Fel

ii) Powercreep: I'm not going to argue the morality or the existence of powercreep in this game - it's happening. Prtectorate, Guidance Chips, a third 40dice primary, etc. FFG went too far fixed the Triple Scouts, but enhanced offense was the second piece to the "overcome all those green dice and modifiers" puzzle. Combine that with the sh*t in i and Fel goes bye-bye.

And he has. And I'm sure I missed some of the things that made him go away. And if these effects neutered the Baron, they would erase the Inquisitor, Lockdown, and (to a lesser extent) Whisper from the game. And they have.

But Palp remains (just had deja vu) and Imperials are filling the 61-point void that those Aces left behind.

FFG has obliged (their coffers) by releasing the Defender fix (don't try to call these mindless, point and shoot tanks Aces) and what they thought would be a fixed ordinance carrier for the Empire. One for two ain't bad! And it continues with the Striker, whose poor (competitive) design deserves its own thread - and the Upsilon, which better be stronger than the previews let us believe.

Okay, dysfunctional rant over. Hopefully my incoherent rambling made sense to someone. Don't mind my poor editing skillz.

Worth noting that most of the garbage we're seeing is Scum. I hate Scum.

I read all the threat and i don't understand this build: Dengar/Bossk, how is set? and what are the difference with Ketsu/Bossk? thank you

I know this is totally not what the thread is about, but I would think the game would be better if they just limited Palp and Manaroo to be within R 1-3. If they had to get into danger to be effective, you would have a chance to destroy them. It would bring greater variety to the Force....I mean meta.

...but I really don't care that much. I never really play tournament level games. I'm just noting what I see. I think it would be better if there were more variety in Imperial lists these days. I think it would be better than just waiting for the next broken thing to come out.

It almost seems that Imperials need a new type of ship. Maybe something like the Imperial X-wing? Something that is a little more tankier than the Interceptor, but fewer points than the Tie Defender. If the Tie Advanced dial was better and maybe a couple more high PS pilots, it might work.

I know this is totally not what the thread is about, but I would think the game would be better if they just limited Palp and Manaroo to be within R 1-3. If they had to get into danger to be effective, you would have a chance to destroy them. It would bring greater variety to the Force....I mean meta.

...but I really don't care that much. I never really play tournament level games. I'm just noting what I see. I think it would be better if there were more variety in Imperial lists these days. I think it would be better than just waiting for the next broken thing to come out.

It almost seems that Imperials need a new type of ship. Maybe something like the Imperial X-wing? Something that is a little more tankier than the Interceptor, but fewer points than the Tie Defender. If the Tie Advanced dial was better and maybe a couple more high PS pilots, it might work.

range 1-2, like almost everyone else (save rebel HWKs)

and no, no one needs an X-wing

after all, imps already have the bomber for relative durability or, even more closely paralleled, the SF

and I do enjoy that nippy little bugger, but when you stack the poor guy against the bull that is PWT you're just wishing you had defenders again

I know this is totally not what the thread is about, but I would think the game would be better if they just limited Palp and Manaroo to be within R 1-3. If they had to get into danger to be effective, you would have a chance to destroy them. It would bring greater variety to the Force....I mean meta.

As I've said before, Palpatine at least does have to get into danger to be worth the cost of putting him on the table, and Manaroo's ability to flee danger is only considered a problem when paired alongside Dengar in that list.

This idea that altering Palpatine and Manaroo magically opens the door to more list variety baffles me, since there is currently no evidence to support the claim that either of those are directly gating anything out of the game.

...but I really don't care that much. I never really play tournament level games. I'm just noting what I see. I think it would be better if there were more variety in Imperial lists these days. I think it would be better than just waiting for the next broken thing to come out.

With all due respect, if you don't play tournament games then it seems unlikely you would have a grasp of what the overall state of the game is and which lists are the common sights for each faction, over a wider spectrum than a local area. However, even a cursory glance at recent, significant tournament results shows nothing to support the idea that a majority of Imperial lists contain Palpatine or Scum ones contain Manaroo. Neither of them is broken, and assuming there will always be a 'next broken thing' when really there have only been two (original rules Phantom, Deadeye Jumpmasters) is both excessively myopic and entirely untrue.

It almost seems that Imperials need a new type of ship. Maybe something like the Imperial X-wing? Something that is a little more tankier than the Interceptor, but fewer points than the Tie Defender. If the Tie Advanced dial was better and maybe a couple more high PS pilots, it might work.

Considering everything that is said about the X-Wing currently, I don't think that's the solution - besides anything else, the TIE/SF is probably a close enough analogy.

...but I really don't care that much. I never really play tournament level games. I'm just noting what I see. I think it would be better if there were more variety in Imperial lists these days. I think it would be better than just waiting for the next broken thing to come out.

With all due respect, if you don't play tournament games then it seems unlikely you would have a grasp of what the overall state of the game is and which lists are the common sights for each faction, over a wider spectrum than a local area. However, even a cursory glance at recent, significant tournament results shows nothing to support the idea that a majority of Imperial lists contain Palpatine or Scum ones contain Manaroo. Neither of them is broken, and assuming there will always be a 'next broken thing' when really there have only been two (original rules Phantom, Deadeye Jumpmasters) is both excessively myopic and entirely untrue.

While I understand that it might seem someone who doesn't play tournaments anymore might not have an idea of what's going on, I do think I have a nice idea of what's happening. I look at tournament results. I listen to podcasts. I spend too much time on these forums. I used to do tournaments. I have played a lot of game systems. I think I understand quite a bit about this game and how it works.

Also, you and everyone else who goes on about these ships either being "broken" or not really are missing a big point. The initial podcast and post said that it wasn't about if they were OP or not. It was more about how they warp the meta. If you look at how many Imperial lists out there are effective and don't use Palp you start to see the issue. The game should be viable beyond having a key component that HAS to be in your list if you want a chance to win.

...but I really don't care that much. I never really play tournament level games. I'm just noting what I see. I think it would be better if there were more variety in Imperial lists these days. I think it would be better than just waiting for the next broken thing to come out.

With all due respect, if you don't play tournament games then it seems unlikely you would have a grasp of what the overall state of the game is and which lists are the common sights for each faction, over a wider spectrum than a local area. However, even a cursory glance at recent, significant tournament results shows nothing to support the idea that a majority of Imperial lists contain Palpatine or Scum ones contain Manaroo. Neither of them is broken, and assuming there will always be a 'next broken thing' when really there have only been two (original rules Phantom, Deadeye Jumpmasters) is both excessively myopic and entirely untrue.

While I understand that it might seem someone who doesn't play tournaments anymore might not have an idea of what's going on, I do think I have a nice idea of what's happening. I look at tournament results. I listen to podcasts. I spend too much time on these forums. I used to do tournaments. I have played a lot of game systems. I think I understand quite a bit about this game and how it works.

Also, you and everyone else who goes on about these ships either being "broken" or not really are missing a big point. The initial podcast and post said that it wasn't about if they were OP or not. It was more about how they warp the meta. If you look at how many Imperial lists out there are effective and don't use Palp you start to see the issue. The game should be viable beyond having a key component that HAS to be in your list if you want a chance to win.

My man.

I haven't wanted to detract from the conversations the initial post started, but the real question is what would happen, regardless of how, you were faced with building an Imperial list without Palp? What if everyone had to do this? Is World's representative of these results? RE: One Imperial list without Palp made top 32. Are you satisfied playing only Decimators and Defenders?

FFG is starting to provide the faction with stand alone ships, but that effort is embarrassingly outpaced by the amount of Scum and anti-Ace tech that they are pumping out. It's a serious problem and all the wind spent complaining about Imperials and Acewing has filled the sails of the galaxies deplorables.

Side note: The frustration with Defenders probably comes from the fact that these ships can stand alone but Palp exists and you can fit a lot of x7 and Shuttle into 100 points. We're in a transition phase where both powerhouses exist at the same time - think Jurassic Park.

I sense a real shift in the game itself and the blame game on the forums and wanted to get this community thinking about it.

Also, you and everyone else who goes on about these ships either being "broken" or not really are missing a big point. The initial podcast and post said that it wasn't about if they were OP or not. It was more about how they warp the meta. If you look at how many Imperial lists out there are effective and don't use Palp you start to see the issue. The game should be viable beyond having a key component that HAS to be in your list if you want a chance to win.

The issue is that staple Imperial ships NEED Palpatine to survive. I don't take Palpatine because he wins games for me, I take him so my Interceptor can have 1 bad defense roll and come out with 1 hull left instead of dead. The problem is with the number of Imperial ships that must have lots of green dice mods to live.

Also, you and everyone else who goes on about these ships either being "broken" or not really are missing a big point. The initial podcast and post said that it wasn't about if they were OP or not. It was more about how they warp the meta. If you look at how many Imperial lists out there are effective and don't use Palp you start to see the issue. The game should be viable beyond having a key component that HAS to be in your list if you want a chance to win.

The issue is that staple Imperial ships NEED Palpatine to survive. I don't take Palpatine because he wins games for me, I take him so my Interceptor can have 1 bad defense roll and come out with 1 hull left instead of dead. The problem is with the number of Imperial ships that must have lots of green dice mods to live.

Well...if we were to go with the OP...what would you do if you COULDN'T take him? What type of a list would you build? Let's say your aces can't rely on him b/c he's banned. Do you still take Aces? Or do you go for other ship types? Or would it be nothing, but three /X7 Defenders in every list?

Also, you and everyone else who goes on about these ships either being "broken" or not really are missing a big point. The initial podcast and post said that it wasn't about if they were OP or not. It was more about how they warp the meta. If you look at how many Imperial lists out there are effective and don't use Palp you start to see the issue. The game should be viable beyond having a key component that HAS to be in your list if you want a chance to win.

The issue is that staple Imperial ships NEED Palpatine to survive. I don't take Palpatine because he wins games for me, I take him so my Interceptor can have 1 bad defense roll and come out with 1 hull left instead of dead. The problem is with the number of Imperial ships that must have lots of green dice mods to live.

Well...if we were to go with the OP...what would you do if you COULDN'T take him? What type of a list would you build? Let's say your aces can't rely on him b/c he's banned. Do you still take Aces? Or do you go for other ship types? Or would it be nothing, but three /X7 Defenders in every list?

2 Tie sf with x7 ryad (personal favorite)

Predator Duchess and VI Sabacc with/d Rexler

Super Soontir Fel with Inquisitor and any 3rd ace

3 x7 defenders

Swarm leader Vader with a mini crack swarm

3 Juke fo's with an ace, probably carnor

Hotshot copilot Tomax Bren with 2 juke defenders

Gamma squadron Veteran spam

3 Tie/SF squadrons (lightweight frame makes a huge difference here)

Tie Swarm (crack shot or snap shot take your pick)

Tie Phantom plus things

I could type up more but I think I've got enough here to make my point.