Sounds like we need data to make a better decision. So all you "I need canon exact" folk can go play with the Empire getting 2 ISDs and a swarm of Ties. Rebels get a CR90 and a swarm of GR-75s and a Neb. Let us know how it goes. And if the Rebels want the MC80, the Imps get like 20 ISDs, a SSD and the Death Star which can destroy any ship on the table. Be sure to play with all the rules in the RRG and FAQ. Can't have you going and changing the entire game now can we?

I'm still gunna play the FFG version because I enjoy a balanced game.

I've seen a Warhammer 40k match where a Space Marine Knight got killed in 1 turn by a squad of Tau Infantry using EMP grenades (something like that). If that thing can happen, then a CR90 can certainly damage an ISD.

Not to head too far off topic, but that's not that remarkable of a feat for the Tau, just saying.

Back on topic, just like in ww2 naval games, a good game assumes a "fair" fight. Otherwise it's much more difficult to come up with rewarding scenarios for both sides... But how often did equal fights happen in ww2? Practically never.

I do believe someone important said "If you're fighting a fair fight, you've already lost/you're fighting the wrong fight" or something like that.

I've seen a Warhammer 40k match where a Space Marine Knight got killed in 1 turn by a squad of Tau Infantry using EMP grenades (something like that). If that thing can happen, then a CR90 can certainly damage an ISD.

Not to head too far off topic, but that's not that remarkable of a feat for the Tau, just saying.

Back on topic, just like in ww2 naval games, a good game assumes a "fair" fight. Otherwise it's much more difficult to come up with rewarding scenarios for both sides... But how often did equal fights happen in ww2? Practically never.

Very seldom, but on several occasions the smaller force delt serious damage on the stronger force.

Take battle of Tassafaronga, when a Japanese destroyer flotilla of 8 ships was up against a US force of 5 heavy cruiser and 4 destroyers. The US lost 1 cruiser and had 3 cruisers serverly damaged, two of them had their bows blown off.

Or when 4 or 5 british destroyers ambushed 10 German destroyers in the first battle of Narvik. Despite that both sides lost roughly the same number of destroyers, the british managed to sink the German supply and support ships at Narvik, leaving the German destroyers stranded in Narvik fjord low on fuel and ammo.

And they where as a consequense stumped out later(in the lack of a better word) by a British Task force of 1 battleship and +10 destroyers.

Sounds like we need data to make a better decision. So all you "I need canon exact" folk can go play with the Empire getting 2 ISDs and a swarm of Ties. Rebels get a CR90 and a swarm of GR-75s and a Neb. Let us know how it goes. And if the Rebels want the MC80, the Imps get like 20 ISDs, a SSD and the Death Star which can destroy any ship on the table. Be sure to play with all the rules in the RRG and FAQ. Can't have you going and changing the entire game now can we?

I'm still gunna play the FFG version because I enjoy a balanced game.

Would you care to point out who these "I need cannon exact" folk are? I haven't seen anyone looking for an exact translation.

That said, I've seen people say (and I've said) that game play is way (vastly so, I cannot stress how vastly so) off kilter as far as fluff goes. I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and be thoroughly ignored again I bet.) Theme and game mechanics are NOT mutually exclusive!

It is entirely possible to have balanced game play while sticking to long held lore.

Still, cool post bro, especially coming from a self proclaimed hater of star wars. Aren't there other fleet based games out there for you? Ones without a preexisting cannon to adhere to?... http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/forum/184-the-firestorm-galaxy/

Ever notice how what most people consider cannon is whatever they want to be cannon?

On that basis, I reject at least some part of OP's premise.

My only complaint too many squadrons interactions and diffetent abilities to keep track of. Does Biggs need his own squadron? Isn't he a wingman? I want this game to be about the big ships!

Yeah, 'cause snub-fighters and ace pilots are useless...

My only complaint too many squadrons interactions and diffetent abilities to keep track of. Does Biggs need his own squadron? Isn't he a wingman? I want this game to be about the big ships!

Yeah, 'cause snub-fighters and ace pilots are useless...

Umm no.

My only complaint too many squadrons interactions and diffetent abilities to keep track of. Does Biggs need his own squadron? Isn't he a wingman? I want this game to be about the big ships!

Yeah, 'cause snub-fighters and ace pilots are useless...

Umm no.

No to what?

I do believe you're missing the sarcasm.

New game:

Someone who believes Armada can't simulate the battles shown on-screen posts an example of a Star Wars battle.

Someone else posts the Armada mechanics that were "happening behind the scenes" to make that battle outcome happen.

I think this thread is funny. You are using the words "realistic" and "Star Wars" in the same sentence and your trying to be serious.

New game:

Someone who believes Armada can't simulate the battles shown on-screen posts an example of a Star Wars battle.

What "fleet battles" do we even have? RotJ? Rogue One?

I think this thread is funny. You are using the words "realistic" and "Star Wars" in the same sentence and your trying to be serious.

Realistic?

It's a simulation of a 3 dimensional thing which itself isn't realistic, in 2 dimensions.

otherwise my ISD's would not just go left or right, they'd go "up" and "down".

it has excellent rules, the game play "feels" right, outstanding miniatures and is, you know...fun!

but not even basically realistic, much less "canon".

This is more of a discussion of whether Superman could beat up the Borg.

yep, funny.

In the intro to A New Hope, the CR90 is firing at the ISD. And from its rear arc, too.

It's possible it was just shooting as an act of impotent denial, but you'd think since it was bothering to fire at all, it expected it might actually do something. Especially if it was trying to pretend to be an innocent consular ship, why fire at all if it was guaranteed to be ineffective?

I don't spend a lot of time here so my response to the opening post is : People are complaining because the game makes considerations to make the game balanced instead of making the empire OP and people blame the game for their own incompetence?

then I realised people are like that.

good thread.

My only complaint too many squadrons interactions and diffetent abilities to keep track of. Does Biggs need his own squadron? Isn't he a wingman? I want this game to be about the big ships!

Yeah, 'cause snub-fighters and ace pilots are useless...

Umm no.

No to what?I do believe you're missing the sarcasm.

Because no one said fighters are useless.

I've seen a Warhammer 40k match where a Space Marine Knight got killed in 1 turn by a squad of Tau Infantry using EMP grenades (something like that). If that thing can happen, then a CR90 can certainly damage an ISD.

Not to head too far off topic, but that's not that remarkable of a feat for the Tau, just saying.

Back on topic, just like in ww2 naval games, a good game assumes a "fair" fight. Otherwise it's much more difficult to come up with rewarding scenarios for both sides... But how often did equal fights happen in ww2? Practically never.

To me, that depends on which edition and era of publication. When I think of what a Space Marine should do, I always remember Rogue Trader and sometimes early 2nd edition 40k.

I think this thread is funny. You are using the words "realistic" and "Star Wars" in the same sentence and your trying to be serious.

there are people who are a fan of starwars and there are people who are "star wars fans".

My only complaint too many squadrons interactions and diffetent abilities to keep track of. Does Biggs need his own squadron? Isn't he a wingman? I want this game to be about the big ships!

Yeah, 'cause snub-fighters and ace pilots are useless...

Umm no.

No to what?I do believe you're missing the sarcasm.

Because no one said fighters are useless.

That's it true, I won't argue. However, you said you want the game to be about big ships (one would presume predominantly), and implicitly dismissed the value of fighter aces and their place in the game. Which I personally see as a myopic viewpoint given pretty much everything we've seen demonstrated about the significance of star-fighters in Star Wars.

Granted, you are certainly welcome to your preferences, that cannot be stressed enough. I simply occupy the opposing mindset based on what I consider to be established precedent.

I replied with sarcasm because it amused me, and I'm an ass

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Armada to be about big ships when there is a whole other game about starfighters. But the squadron debate is going on in a dozen other threads so need to redo it here.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Armada to be about big ships when there is a whole other game about Starfighters.

Two thoughts:

(1) Squadrons in Armada aren't the same thing as Starfighters in X-Wing, any more than Big Ships are the same thing in Star Wars: Rebellion and Star Wars Armada.

(2) Star Wars ​Armada​ implies battles that resemble, y'know, Star Wars. Squadrons and Starfighters are a huge​ part of space battle in the Star Wars universe, on both a macro and micro level.

As has been said before, there's so few actual fleet-scale battles to look at in Star Wars that we have very few examples, but even digging around on the Wookiepedia, it seems pretty clear that even (and I'd argue especially​) in-universe "Starfighters" were a huge​ part of fleet-level combat. In... almost exactly the way it works in Armada right now (Starfighters en-masse are capable of harassing and even destroying vastly larger ships, and the way that everyone deals with this is to utilize Starfighters of their own).

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Armada to be about big ships when there is a whole other game about Starfighters.

Two thoughts:

(1) Squadrons in Armada aren't the same thing as Starfighters in X-Wing, any more than Big Ships are the same thing in Star Wars: Rebellion and Star Wars Armada.

(2) Star Wars ​Armada​ implies battles that resemble, y'know, Star Wars. Squadrons and Starfighters are a huge​ part of space battle in the Star Wars universe, on both a macro and micro level.

As has been said before, there's so few actual fleet-scale battles to look at in Star Wars that we have very few examples, but even digging around on the Wookiepedia, it seems pretty clear that even (and I'd argue especially​) in-universe "Starfighters" were a huge​ part of fleet-level combat. In... almost exactly the way it works in Armada right now (Starfighters en-masse are capable of harassing and even destroying vastly larger ships, and the way that everyone deals with this is to utilize Starfighters of their own).

It's been too much, devastators, phantoms, Ewing's, havok bombers, they weren't needed this early in the games life. They could have released the basics, X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings, B-wings, TIE fighters, bombers, interceptors, defenders. Mix in YT-1300s, firesprays, VCX-100s and lambdas. Then release new ace packs (with 1 new stand and 1 new ace) periodically, nothing to extreme, no adding a dozen new ability keywords, just mixing existing abilities and stats as needed thematically. (I.e. neither Vader nor Luke should have escort, Biggs gets super escort etc.) This way the game isn't inundated with nothing but fighters and keywords.

As for fleet battles, there are TONS of fleet battles in star wars. You just need to look at the Clone Wars. Starfighters made huge contributions to those battles, so they are necessary. It's also a good place to look for examples of how ship to ship combat worked in the Star wars universe (with all its glorious bad science star wars physics.)

Edited for readability*