I doubt they would change the title cost. I don't think they've ever changed the cost of an upgrade.

So more likely if they nerf it they'll make it a free action. Which I think is perfectly fair.

If they were to change the X/7 title they could make it "after you complete a 3,4 or 5 speed maneuver that did not overlap an obstacle assign an evade token to your ship." Makes blocking and asteroids a problem for them without opening up any other cans of worms. It sounds like this may be what the X/7 haters want but I doubt they would stop complaining anyway.

Like I said before I am not sure that X/7 needs changing but I am concerned that they are so much better than similarly priced ships that they are forcing them out. I really don't know if changing the X/7 title does anything about this though because something will always be more efficient thus taken more.

/x7 is basically better than any ship for any faction at the cost. It's better than all previous Imperial ships in their respective niches - better than Interceptors in an aces list, better than TIEs in a swarm aggro list, better than Phantoms as Decimator partners..

If /x7 was available to Rebels or Scum it would take over there too. I mean can you imagine Mindlinked /x7s?!?

It's a stupid title for a stupid cost that highlights the inadequacy of FFG's amateur-led playtesting. If you're going to have amateurs test your cards then at least have a system in place that's rapidly responsive to how cards react when released into the wild. FFG combine not giving a **** about balancing things before they're released with not giving a **** about balancing them after release either. I've seen the exact same thing across other FFG games, it's a cultural problem at the company.

use cluster mines ... and lots of them

you can the control how and where they fly

Any builds or meta that encourage flying well are good for the health of the game IMO.

I disagree because:

1. free actions that can't be blocked and without a penalty make the game easier

2. it builds a meta that pushed out two-attack ships

The second point is more important. I've mentioned this in another thread before, but there are three kinds of tanky ships: Beefy (lots of hull+shield, low or no agility), mitigating (prevent damage through (free) actions) and regenerating (regen shields or shed damage). Unfortunately they are usually conflated.

The beefy and the regenerating tanks are no problem for any other ship - it's a race against time in the former, and a question of burst damage in the latter. But most ships could in theory win.

The third type, the damage mitigating tank, is a bigger problem as it renders some ships unable to destroy them. Defenders are just one example, but they are the most prominent one, which is why I bring it up.

I see three main contributors to the problem of Defenders:

1. The free evade of the x7 title. This allows the defenders to token up with focus+evade in every round. Together with their native 3 agility, you need a TL+focus 4 attack ship to get some damage through (0.94 expected damage).

2. The other stats of the defender: PS5-6 is not bad except against aces. 3/3/3/3 is phenomenal (in fact only 5 ships have 3atk/3agi, of which 2 die fast, 1 is the starviper and then brobots). Then we have white K-turns, which makes the defender the prime jouster. In all, the ship is either too cheap with the free evade, or well priced but should not get the evade.

3. The master of variance, Supreme Chancellor himself. He direly needs a range3,an action or some form of cost for his ability.

I agree with you in the sense that Defenders with x7 caused a lot of innovation and still do. But the general direction of damage mitigation for no cost is not good for the game because it pushes out two-attack ships and is almost an inherent fun-vampire for others.

Edit: quoted too much

THIS.

I always lol'd at the posts saying that the x7's need a nerf math.

You know, there's a cure to this, it's called education.

There's a cure for your douchiness, too. Remove your head from your rectum and stick it in the toilet. Flush. Repeat as necessary. I'm guessing you need at least three flushes.

It's not about the offense of swarms, so your remark about /D or HLC is irrelevant.

Yeah Chief, you may uh.... may want to rethink who you say that to.

Yes, it's of course a typo.

Offense ON swarms, as in 'against' them. Should have been clear from the context as I'm talking about damage mitigation all this time.

Thanks for the correction, but not really what I meant. Judging by your post count you haven't been here long (either that or you just really really decided to lurk until now) so you may be unaware of this, but if Bio is known for only one thing, its his thorough knowledge of the Defender. He writes threads and articles about them, has been flying and advocating for their use for ages, and has starred in numerous podcasts to discuss them. Calling any input he has on them "irrelevant" is a good way to make people not take your opinion seriously. Just thought you should know that.

On a more general note, I honestly think it's funny that the Defender was panned as DOA for ages. The high cost was one problem (you pay nearly as much for a PS 1 ship that relied on green dice as you would pay for a pilot like Ten Numb). But now that it has received a title that, let's face it, makes the ship into the anti-starfighter terror it was always designed to be, people just complain about how strong it is. In all my games with, against, or observing Defenders both pre and post Imperial Veterans, their biggest weaknesses are the same ones that most Imperial Aces are: focused fire and bad luck. This game has been finding ways to exploit both of those since Soontir Fel and PtL hit the table. So yeah, to echo a statement expressed earlier in this thread, yeah sure your Corran/Dash netlist doesn't push enough damage through with its 2.5 attacks per round. Boo freakin' hoo. I've seen two Blue Squadron Bs with HLC and FCS rip an x7 to pieces in two rounds just by controlling their approach with a modicum of forethought (they both opened up at R3, then one moved aggressively to block and the other took his R1, focused, TLed attack) and that was only a portion of their list.

It’s all in the approach man. And yes Bio really knows his Defenders (would never want to face him in a tournament if he used them). The moral of the story is this. When going against defenders you must do 1 or more of the folowing.

1. Outfly them. If you nail that approach defenders have a hard time recovering.

2. Mess with thier dice. Things like Zuckuss and Crackshot can annoy Defenders to no end.

3. Guaranteed damage. Bombs (backed with Sabine) are really good against them. Especially Connor Nets and Cluster Mines.

4. Homing Missiles. Plenty of people can carry these bad boys effectively (GSVs, KWings, TAPs, Chmiped Z-95s and Bossk isn't bad either). If you can back it up with Crackshot, even better.

But the gist of it is this. The tools are there. They have always been there. But they have to be used. If you don't use the tools at your disposal you won't beat much of anything.

5: Mess with their manoeuvres. Ionise them. Ions are hilarious for Defenders, especially if you have lower PS ships that can take advantage of the block opportunity.

Gottagofast doesn't work when you gottagoslooooow...

TLT's wreck defenders. So do Ion bombs and anything that forces them to move slower than 3+

This is very much a dice thing, it just takes some good defence rolls from the defenders to win the fight, so the TLT hardly wrecks them even if they stand a good chance statistically

The thing with TLTs against Defenders is you really need to spam them to be effective. I had Ryad chasing down a TLT K-wing the other day and the K-wing folded well before Ryad did. The main hindrance was having to dodge proximity mines and Conner nets or it would have been over faster too.

TLTs don't care about facing which helps to counter the advantage of the Defenders' white (or green) K-turns but you need plentiful dice mods to burn through a Defender's tokens. Even if the TLT rolls slightly above average and gets 2 hits on both shots, the Defender will on average be able to dodge one hit from each with green dice and spend an evade to dodge the second with either their Focus or Evade token.

TLTs need to roll high or the Defendersneed to blank their greens to get damage through and even then it is only 1 point per shot. I am not saying TLTs are bad, they can wear down Defenders and remain strong against big ships (their preffered prey) but I have never worried about just facing 1 in a list.

You dont really need TLT spam as much as TLT mods