From the new Imperial Assault Tournament Regulations:

ELIMINATED FIGURES

To facilitate calculating a player’s victory points (see "Calculating a Player’s Victory Points" on page 8), each player should keep their Deployment and Upgrade cards organized, even after a deployment group is destroyed. When a figure is eliminated, the owner of the figure places the corresponding figure model on its respective Deployment card.

CALCULATING A PLAYER’S VICTORY POINTS

A player’s victory points determines who won the game in most situations. Each player calculates their victory points by adding together the figure cost of all their opponent’s destroyed figures—including any Upgrade cards attached to a deployment group in which all of its figures have been destroyed. Then the player adds any victory points he or she has gained from card or mission effects.

If a player destroys all of his or her opponent’s figures, the opponent’s army is worth 40 deployment points for the purposes of calculating victory points, even if the total Deployment and Upgrade cards are worth fewer army points.

If a player concedes the game, all of his or her remaining figures are destroyed before calculating each player’s victory points.

When I reinforce an Elite Stormtrooper, is he still worth 3 points for my opponent? I don't think so, because he is no longer destroyed (i.e. placed on his Deployment Card). What do you think?

My opinion is that it should be the sensible thing to use for skirmish would be points for defeated figures, not figures set aside, which should be just a VP-keeping option (and a bad one at that).

Thus it would not matter whether Reinforcements puts a new figure into play (you know, like place in Spot Weld becomes put into play ) or not.

Hopefully the tournament document gets an update at the same time as the next FAQ comes out.

When played as written: Should be or actually is ?

My opinion about what would be sensible, not talking about the wording of the rules.

My first gut reaction also was yeah, if the trooper figure is back in play he doesn't count for victory points anymore and I guess this is how it is intended by the designers. But at the same time this makes the trooper more of an zombie trooper instead of a real reinforcement.

Question to designers is sent.

I read it as VPs being fluid.
Your current total is defeated figures + mission points. If the defeated figures changes (eg with reinforcements) so does the VP total.

If you kill a trooper, you get 3 points. If that figure comes back, then you loses 3 points. If he dies again, you gains 3 points again.

Reinforcements clearly says "choose 1 defeated trooper... [and put him back]"
It's not a new trooper or a copy. It's the same dude.

It's also the one that makes sense because the other options would be huge nerfs to Reinforcements, on top of the points change on top of all the anti trooper stuff in Jabba's wave.
If the trooper didn't count, then there's no point denial possible. If he count's again without fluid VPs then that trooper is worth 6 which makes reinforcements terrible. And you'd have to keep track of which troop has or hasn't come back from that dead at some point in the game. It's not the logical solution.

The precedent here is that some missions rules "count as having X VPs" those can be lost due to mission rules. I think it's intended for these points to work the same way with reinforcements.

I've basically heard two different interpretations of how reinforcements is going to work right now and I think they're both incorrect.

• Interpretation 1: you can get extra VPs for killing reinforced units. This makes reinforcements completely obsolete.

• Interpretation 2: when you reinforce a unit, your opponents unscores those victory points. This also seems unfounded and doesn't completely solve the problem of one trooper getting away to hide and getting potentially all the victory points back after he reinforces.

I have a 3rd interpretation that I think makes sense given the wording on the cards and the new rules, doesn't make reinforcements completely obsolete, but solves some of the inherent problems it creates. First the wording of the card and rule:

Reinforcements: "Use at the start of a round. Choose 1 of your defeated Troopers that has a reinforcement cost of 3 or less. Place that figure adjacent to any other figure of its group.

New rule: "Each player calculates their victory points by adding together the figure cost of all their opponent’s destroyed figures —including any Upgrade cards attached to a deployment group in which all of its figures have been destroyed. Then the player adds any victory points he or she has gained from card or mission effects."

Interpretation 3: Reinforcements states you take a defeated figure and put it on the map. The new rule states you score every "destroyed" figure. The reinforcement card never says that the figure you place back on the map is now "undefeated". The way reinforcements should now work is that you score 3 points for a defeated stormtrooper. When that figure is reinforced, you neither lose the points you scored, nor can you gain extra points from killing it again.

Interpretation 1 seems completely incorrect given the language of the new rules. Interpretation 2 may be correct, but we will wait on an official ruling from FFG. My interpretation makes the most sense from a gameplay perspective (reinforcements shouldn't give you 3 VPs and a figure, nor should it put you at risk for losing 3 more VPs.)

It's pretty clear atm. Victory points are calculated on a game state basis. Basically any time there is a change. Essentially reinforcements removes victory points equal to the figures cost. It says you count the destroyed units. The unit is no longer there to be counted.

It's pretty clear atm. Victory points are calculated on a game state basis. Basically any time there is a change. Essentially reinforcements removes victory points equal to the figures cost. It says you count the destroyed units. The unit is no longer there to be counted.

The problem with that is that there are abilities that let you spend VP (see Jabba). Do you gain the VP from killing a Stormtrooper, spend it with Jabba's ability, then the trooper is reinforced... You can't have negative VP, so in fact you haven't lost anything... And then what happens when you kill the trooper again, do you gain more VP?

You'd drop to 0 and then Continue from there. It really isn't that hard. If you kill another trooper, you would be at 3.

You'd drop to 0 and then Continue from there. It really isn't that hard. If you kill another trooper, you would be at 3.

At which point the ability didn't cost you anything, and in fact, cost the other player...

I think, that the misleading concept is, that you don't score points at all for killing figures anymore:

Old rule (RRG/P 25):

Defeating Figures: When the last figure in a group is defeated,

the opposing player scores points equal to the deployment

cost of that group. To track this, the card’s controller places the

Deployment card near his opponent.

From the new Imperial Assault Tournament Regulations:

ELIMINATED FIGURES

To facilitate calculating a player’s victory points (see "Calculating a Player’s Victory Points" on page 8), each player should keep their Deployment and Upgrade cards organized, even after a deployment group is destroyed. When a figure is eliminated, the owner of the figure places the corresponding figure model on its respective Deployment card.

CALCULATING A PLAYER’S VICTORY POINTS

A player’s victory points determines who won the game in most situations. Each player calculates their victory points by adding together the figure cost of all their opponent’s destroyed figures—including any Upgrade cards attached to a deployment group in which all of its figures have been destroyed. Then the player adds any victory points he or she has gained from card or mission effects.

You only gain (or score) victory points from card or mission effects. Victory points for killing are calculated on a game state basis, but not scored .

So it seems pretty clear to me. We either get a big FAQ concerning this, or we play as written, which would be:

Jabba's Order Hit: You can only spend points gained from card or mission effects.

Reinforcements: The figure is not (or no longer) on its card => no points.

Of No Importance: No game effect.

I think, that the misleading concept is, that you don't score points at all for killing figures anymore:

Old rule (RRG/P 25):

Defeating Figures: When the last figure in a group is defeated,

the opposing player scores points equal to the deployment

cost of that group. To track this, the card’s controller places the

Deployment card near his opponent.

From the new Imperial Assault Tournament Regulations:

ELIMINATED FIGURES

To facilitate calculating a player’s victory points (see "Calculating a Player’s Victory Points" on page 8), each player should keep their Deployment and Upgrade cards organized, even after a deployment group is destroyed. When a figure is eliminated, the owner of the figure places the corresponding figure model on its respective Deployment card.

CALCULATING A PLAYER’S VICTORY POINTS

A player’s victory points determines who won the game in most situations. Each player calculates their victory points by adding together the figure cost of all their opponent’s destroyed figures—including any Upgrade cards attached to a deployment group in which all of its figures have been destroyed. Then the player adds any victory points he or she has gained from card or mission effects.

You only gain (or score) victory points from card or mission effects. Victory points for killing are calculated on a game state basis, but not scored .

So it seems pretty clear to me. We either get a big FAQ concerning this, or we play as written, which would be:

Jabba's Order Hit: You can only spend points gained from card or mission effects.

Reinforcements: The figure is not (or no longer) on its card => no points.

Of No Importance: No game effect.

That is an interesting interpretation...

You have to remember that scoring needs to be easy.

Interpretation 3 from brettpkelly if fine, except for the cumbersome need to then track which trooper has and hasn't come back from the dead. It doesn't sounds like much but it can easily get confusing when you're moving them around. There's no token for "has been reinforced" and not everyone numbers their units in the same way (since it usually doesn't matter if you place all damage and conditions next to the figure).

Think of it this way. There are rules that cover losing points and going below zero. Why do those rules exist if you can't lose points? You can't go below zero with Order Hit, since you can't spend VPs you don't have.
There's a clear distinction between " gains " and " counts as having " VPs. For example (look at Priceless Relics mission from the Lando pack).

You can most certainly lose points, and I think that's what's intended with reinforcements due to the wording on how points are calculated.

Interpretation 2 is fine because you can't deny the whole 9pts from a group anymore. You can still kill the other troopers. Yes you can still run away, but it's running away with 3 points not 9. You can run away and reinforce back up to 3 figures, but that takes 2 turns. I think that would be rare and it's still better than current rules because you'd have to use those reinforcements just to deny points. Right now, you can hide with the last guy, while reinforcing another unit that's more involved with the fighting. It now becomes a choice. Is it better to take 3 points away from my opponent, or is it better to reinforce that second unit who's in the middle of a fight.

Also, there is only one type of VP. If you have them or not. You can use abilities from all VPs.
It would be near impossible and annoying to keep track of which are permanent "usable VPs" and which are from defeated figures that could change.

I really like the idea of no longer being able to hide the last eStormtropper with only 1 health left for 9 points, the opponent will never get ... I often felt bad about situations like this, wether doing it myself or my opponent doing it.

And I like this rule, because it evens out an inherent advantage, that 3-figure-groups had. Far more figures seem playable now, and that's good in my book.

But I really hope, that there will be a clarification on this as soon as possible. The wording is terrible, interactions with other rules are pretty unclear. A big change like this right in the middle of the regionals season seems thoughtless.

People mix up, what the rules exactly are, what they might be intended to be, what they should be, and what they would like them to be. I don't like that ...

They were super quick on the jabba question about making your opponents figures attack and I'm sure someone has contacted em about this so let's just wait and see I guess

Considering how much debate there has been, it seems very strange that we haven't heard anything yet.

Last two times I sent a question in I got a reply within 2 hours and 1 day.

I haven't personally sent anything through for this issue though.

They updated the tournament guide today.

"When a figure is defeated, the opposing player scores victory points equal to that figure’s figure cost (see “Figure Cost” in the “Rules Updates” section of the FAQ)"
"If a defeated figure is placed back on the map, the owner places a strain token on that figure’s deployment card to track the previous defeat."

That to me, means that you don't rescore the points if you defeat him again, but you also don't lose the points when he comes back. Like i said earlier, reinforcements never undefeats the figure.

EDIT: so looking at the rules again I think I am wrong and i'm switching to the consensus interpretation.

Each time a figure is defeated, you score VPs for it. Even if you reinforced that particular figure more than once. That strain token is there to help you track the VP's for overall accountability of scorekeeping, not as some funky freebie token that grants you an ability to put a vicotry-point null figure on the table.

And here as a confirmation what I received from the designers:

Q:

1) If I take out a whole group of Elite Snowtroopers they are only worth 9 victory points now instead of 10 because victory points are calculated by the figures' cost?

2) If I bring back a trooper unit back into play via Reinforcements my opponent also loses the victory points he had for that figure?

On ‎15‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 9:55 PM, Inquisitorsz said:

You have to remember that scoring needs to be easy.

Nothing easier than adding VP's every time a model is removed from the board. If it is killed again. More VP's as it is 'removed from the board'

'Reinforcemens' isn't 'nerfed' by this as you can still use the extra figure to attack and gain objectives to help you win.

On 31/01/2017 at 6:14 AM, TryerImp said:

Nothing easier than adding VP's every time a model is removed from the board. If it is killed again. More VP's as it is 'removed from the board'

'Reinforcemens' isn't 'nerfed' by this as you can still use the extra figure to attack and gain objectives to help you win.

Being very new to the game that's how I assumed it worked. e.g.:

A trooper from a deployment group is killed, 3 victory points is awarded to your opponent.

At the beginning of the next round, that deployment group is reinforced; the same trooper is killed; 3 more victory points is awarded to your opponent.