Hello all,

I thought I would post a thread of substance today to try and engender some actual discussion of the game.

My CC group just finished round 1 of our CC, and it was a resounding defeat for the rebels. All three games were won by the Imperials, including an offensive action that lost the Rebellion a base, repair yard, and a nice chunk of resources.

Obviously, luck, deployment, player skill, and many other factors have a lot to do with this game, but my question is the following:

With the list building restrictions of round 1 of the CC (i.e. 400 points, 1 upgrade maximum per ship), which faction do you believe has the advantage on the tabletop and why?

For myself, I was originally thinking the Rebels what with TRC90s and Assault Frigates that work just fine with even no upgrades.

Now I'm not so sure, as Imperials ships are perfectly happy to take ships that don't really need more than one upgrade either.

Rebels seem to have better quality squadrons on the whole, but Imperials have managed to catch up pretty well recently as well.

So, which faction do you think has the best advantage on the table (not on the map or strategic phase) in round 1 of the CC and why?

Honestly I still think it comes down to skill and use of objectives

Both sides have admirals that boost all ships, and ships that work well even when restricted to only 1 upgrade

Since rebel competitive lists already exist using the one upgrade per round rule I want to say them, but the rhymerball also fits in this category and yet in the furst round of the cc I played there was no Rhymer and imperials went undefeated so...

Since rebel competitive lists already exist using the one upgrade per round rule I want to say them, but the rhymerball also fits in this category and yet in the furst round of the cc I played there was no Rhymer and imperials went undefeated so...

My first thought was of a rhymerball, though ultimately decided against it to build more activations in.

There wasn't one in our campaign either, with the Imperials still sweeping the first round.

Off hand i'd say Rebels. They have a lot of ships that are pretty decent naked and can be spammed. Plus Akbar is a thing.

But ive been proven wrong several times on my opinions so im unsure. It might go back to the Core Scenario where rebels won or lost purely on round 3 where the VSD would have a glorious shot on them, or they dodged it. Only to a higher degree since its not just 1 VSD to worry about.

We are just getting started and one Rebel player is rolling Rieekan Yavaris Aces and a Salvation. So.... Yeah.

We are just getting started and one Rebel player is rolling Rieekan Yavaris Aces and a Salvation. So.... Yeah.

Sounds pretty legit.

I'm limited by my collection (specifically not having a lot of ships that I should, and not having the upgrades that I would need for real competitive play), so the CC restrictions are really appealing to me.

I was going to build a Rebel Aces fleet for our little casual CC campaign, but I'm a little bit worried about it being too much for my other (very casual - moreso than me) players I've conned into CC.

I feel like it's something that can start strong and, if it's successful, really snowball out of control as you add points and deny points to your opponents.

I really think it comes down to the commander. Vader is good with no upgrades, or 1 turbolaser upgrade to push damage. And Ackbar is good for the same reason.

I'd say Motti, Cracken and Mothma are weak, because they are defensive commanders that allow upgraded ships to survive to get more value.

I'd consider Ozzel and Rieekan to be neutral.

And then it comes down to objective. Is the initial fleet built for the objectives, or were the objectives picked for a 500 point fleet?

I think the bias is towards Imps at the beginning. A naked ISD is far better than a naked MC30 or MC80.

Mon Karren may be the single best upgrade for a ship with no other upgrades.

Demolisher is a pretty close second (though it wants those Engine Techs).

Mon Karren may be the single best upgrade for a ship with no other upgrades.

Demolisher is a pretty close second (though it wants those Engine Techs).

I think I saw you running Home One. In my campaign that has been the single strongest upgrade. Makes a whole Ackbar fleet sing.

I'm running Home One on Vassal. I'm running Mon Karren in Real Life.

Mon Karren may be the single best upgrade for a ship with no other upgrades.

Demolisher is a pretty close second (though it wants those Engine Techs).

Agree with this 100%.

I think it heavily depends on the objectives chosen. I am playing Imperial and I have to defend against a Hyperlane Raid in turn 1. My fleet only has an Interdictor and an ISD so two of my objectives will be on squadrons, which will be hard to protect and cannot score.

We are playing a 4 player campaign and my fleet was actually the better to defend this one, but it will be an uphill struggle.

In other actions my fleet will have an advantage. This fight will be bloody on both sides.

I attacked Corellia turn one and won so there's that. But then my team got seriously sweeped in two other minor battles. So we're now leading 2-1, but Our initial grand strategy of running a resource war on them for the moment has stalled badly. I don't know if anyone has an advantage on the campaign map in turn one.

As for what potential fleets could be built and commanders used. I'd say the rebels have an easier panel to pick from. Doddona, Ackbar, Riekan are all windmill slams to me for picks. Then imperials auto take Motti. But then the rest are a little harder to choose. Vader and Tarkin are both good. Konstantin is good. But there's really no obvious avenues of fleet build with those guys.

I'm running an Ackbar Home One, MC30 Admo, TRC90, 2GR-75, 9 headhunters, and Blount list. I won a hyperlane raid vs a Vader ISD, Raider, triple Arq, 2 TIE list with only a few headhunters as casualties.

I actually didn't use the Home One title once, but the MC80 swatted two Arqs and the TRC90 took out another.

So I think both sides have a good chance. However it can be hard to take down big ships early, especially with one upgrade limitations which tend to leave you much more reliant on luck, and rebel red dice can be very swingy.

Mon Karren may be the single best upgrade for a ship with no other upgrades.

Demolisher is a pretty close second (though it wants those Engine Techs).

I actually took a GSD-II (Jonus in the list) with APTs in Round 1.

Round 2 will see an addition of Demo, Ord Experts, and Engine Techs to make it a monster.

Jonus does huge work by the way. Especially with the focus fire of an ISD-II, GSD-II, and an Arq.

All of the following is said with the understanding my CC campaign is not slated to start for a few more weeks. All is to be taken with a grain of salt. It would also appear I have interpreted the question differently, not which faction's fleets have the advantage, but which faction has strategic advantage.

For who has advantage turn 1, I think that comes down to the results of the individual battles and the number of players. Under the strategic initiative rules, either fewer campaign points or the Rebels get to choose the first battle. Since, it's Turn 1, it's always the Rebels. If the campaign is a 3v3 scenario, then the advantage, in my opinion, is nil. In a 2v2, the advantage is to the Imperials. Allow me to explain.

In a 3v3 scenario, the Rebels gain the opportunity to control the opening stage of the war. If they want to try to base rush the Imperials, they can do that and attack two. If they want to take a base and do a Special Mission, they can do both. In either scenario, the Imperials' offensive strategic options are limited to one choice, Special Mission to gain resources, OR attack a base and hope for resources down the line and campaign points, and a 50-50 shot at a Rebel base. However, the Imperials have a reactive advantage. They know which Rebel fleet has been committed, and choose the next two fleets who are in action (the defending fleet, and their attack fleet). They can choose whichever of their fleets is best able to handle the assault the Rebels have chosen, and then can pick the fleet and mission they think best stands the chance of outflying/fighting the two remaining Rebel fleets in its scenario. If they get lucky, this will force a certain fleet from the Rebels, leaving the remaining two as the default matchup, again potentially as planned by the Imperials. Now the Rebels are forced to choose which fleet is defending and which is facing the remaining Imperial fleet. If the Imperial fleets are well built, this can provide the opportunity to gain an advantage in fleet matchup before the first shots are fired. While this can be mitigated to a degree by Rebel fleet building, Imperials retain the ability to upset the strategic initiative with tactical counterpunches.

In other words, the Rebels choose where the battles are fought, but Imperials choose the matchups. This is a known design trait of the campaign, balancing allowing the losing team a chance back into the fight, while allowing the leaders the chance to kick their legs out from under them. This does not hold in a 2v2 scenario. In 2v2, there is no advantage I can see from going first. Each side only gets one mission, and by going first you commit both your fleets to action without any knowledge of the enemy's choices. Again, in theory, careful fleetbuilding can counteract this disadvantage, but the defensive fleet has to be able to handle both a Special Mission and a base defense, which I'm not convinced is easy or obvious.

TL:DR, 3v3 the sides are balanced by Rebel strategic initiative and Imperial matchup selection, 2v2 favors Imperials for matchup selection.