I was wondering if anyone knew of the restrictions applied to Rogue Traders in their dealing with Aliens and non-Imperial cultures?

e.g. Nids & Genstealers, Tau maybe Eldaer and Orks?

I think its obvious that 'Tainted' (apply various subjective definitions, Warp/Daemon etc) artefacts, weapons or items, would be prohibited. Not to say that they dont aquire them but if your not caught its not a crime lol.

It's all bad.

There are no aliens it is legal to trade with, some are just the difference between and instant Inquisitoral investigation, and not letting the Inquisistion find out.

As a race break down:

Orks: only have one thing they sell. Muscle.

Tau:They will trade technology, it would be hard seeing as they're on the other side of the Galaxy though.

Eldar:they don't trade with humanity, pretty much ever seeing as the mon-keigh have almost nothing of value.

Dark Eldar: like Eldar but will enslave you in return for nothing.

Tyranids: they do not trade, ever. Genestealer cults dont' have anything of value to trade for things.

Necrons:See Tyranids. Well maybe there is a Necron lord who might trade something trivial, like safe passage for large numbers of raw materials.

Chaos: might but don't be found out, and the cost could easily be your soul.

Minor races: Many will trade raw materials for technology.

Oh, the Eldar will gladly trade with the Mon'Keigh, especially if the Mon'Keigh's lucked into the possession of some spirit stones. The only issue is that if there are any Rogue Traders who ultimately came out ahead in such a trade agreement, they aren't talking, and are vastly outnumbered by those who either were utterly screwed over by the deal or were never heard from again after setting off to make contact. Negotiating with people that can see the future and see no particular reason why someone with anything of theirs should be allowed to live is a dangerous business.

Orks can be traded with, but all they want is weaponry, and all they can offer in return is (most frequently) a promise not to kill you just yet or (less frequently) the services of a few boyz. Both of which are liable to turn on the dealmaker as soon as the thought enters the mind of the Orks in question. Their betrayal is inevitable, but not immediate, which offers a window of opportunity to the wise Trader.

Dealing with the Stryxis is more of a no-no on general principle as opposed to specifics. They don't seem to be much of a threat, though certainly not to be trusted any farther than they can be thrown.

Same with the Kroot. They're serviceable mercenaries, loyal as long as they're being paid, but best to get rid of them before word gets around you've got aliens doing your dirty work.

I don't agree that it's AUTOMATICALLY illegal to trade with Xenos. The Warrant of Trade seems to give a Rogue Trader licence to deal with any civilisation (xenos or human) as he sees fit. Given that Rogue Traders "speak with the voice of the Emperor" outside the Imperium, they have technically the legal right to deal with anyone, even the foulest Xenos.

(How this legal right squares off against the formal legal "Xenos Horribilis" status of, for example, the Sluagth, is unknown.)

The real danger for a Rogue Trader who trades with Xenos is what happens when he gets back to the Imperium: the protection of his Warrant of Trade is only good outside its bounds. Any artefacts he possesses are likely to be illegal, and carrying them runs the risk of Imperial Navy boarding actions, Ordos Xenos investigations, being burned at the stake etc etc.

The legal status of xenotech seems uncertain. Certain Xenos artefacts seem to widely traded and "respectable." I'm thinking Jokaero digital weapons. Others are highly illegal - Halo devices for example.

Lightbringer is right.

DEFAULT is, that it is illegal to have any doings with the Xenos
With a WARRANT, default is no longer in effect.
But even someone with a WARRANT is not allowed to trade with "Xenos Horribus" (or however it was called).

As far as I remember, the Slaught (DH) are an example for Xenos Horribus.
While I have no proof, I would consider the Tyranids to be Horribus (due to the risk they are to the human genom)...but no-one in his sane mind would try trade WITH them... but I expect that "Horribus" although forbids trading them and their belongings as well.

If the Yuvath are by someway "recognized" by the Imperium as what they are, they would be Horribus for sure (for their warp magic).

Lightbringer said:

That was somthing else i was curious about. when a RT gets back into the Imperium, exactley what happens to his status and xeno goods etc.

On the one hand he is the Imperium outside and on the other he is given the status on par with Planetary Govenore, SM Chapter Masters and i think Inquisitors.

So once back in the Imperium i asume he has the 'On Par with' status, but what does that mean. Can he refuse to recognise the Inquisitions authority over him like a SM Chapter master can. (Not without peril lol) Or does he have to play ball as say a Imperial Govenor would.

Your thoughts please esp in relation to possible xeno weapons or trinkets his entourage and him are liley to make part of their personal affects.

BVONB said:

His rights from the Warrant of Trade are limited when they are within Imperial space. It would be illegal to carry xenos or xenos technology, and would have to recognise and be bound by the authority of the Inquisition. His power would be about that of a Governor, in that he is powerful , but must respect the authority of the people above him.

This is why many Rogue Traders never return to Imperial space, it's not in their best interests the majority of the time.

I should note that there is a distinction between "trading in xenos artifacts" and "carrying stuff plundered from xenos". The former is generally illegal (barring exemptions that might show up in specific Warrants), while the latter may be ok, depending on what the plunder is, and what race created it.

Some things, like Jokaero artifacts (digi-weapons, spy-fly nets, light sculptures, etc) are ok, as are a few other objets d'art . In general, the prices are stupidly high.

It would be in the best interest for a Rogue Trader, inside the borders, to comply with an Inquisitor. It is also in the best interest of an Inquisitor to not interfere with a Rogue Trader. Neither is a person to be taken lightly. In all reality the RT has a far greater area of influence than an Inquisitor with the advantage of not instantly being hated and feared when they show up flashing their ident. The Inquisitor on the other hand doesn't have the need to justify or explain their actions to the Imperium, just other Inquisitors.

As a RT, if I were offended by an Inquisitors need for my ship, I would be inclined to inform him of the need to detour to a depot for re-supply, which just happened to be outside the Imperiums borders. At that time the Inquisitor may find a bolt round or eight in his skull that would be shortly be drifting through space. Of course any investigations would show detailed logs detailing the voyage to planet X where the Inquisitor and party departed the ship, never to be heard from again.

For most of the imperium it's illegal to trade with Xenos. RT can trade with anyone that isn't Xenos Horribus. To my knowledge that's the Slaught, the Tyranids, the Yuvath and the like. Orks, Eldar and the Tau aren't Xenos Horribus. An RT can trade with them, and is generally okay unless he aids them against the Imperium directly. An RT is safest trading materials and not tech. As trading imperial tech to the imperium is a no no. (Which is what the "Cold Trade" is all about.) That said there is a great demand for Xenos tech, and art among the Nobles. Generally it's ignored unless it gets out of hand.

Actually it is Xenos Terribilus not Horibilis.

This exact question is answered on page 334 under trading with the xenos terribilis.

Basically it says that the rules about association with xenos do not apply to RT with the exception of the Terribilis.

It does not give names for terribilis xenos but from the description given it should be obvious which ones fit the bill.

As a side note I have seen alot of people say that a RT autonomy / exemptions from the normal rules of the imperium when in imperium space are curtailed. Can someone point me to where this comes from? Also if I remember correctly officially the imperium claims the entirety of the galaxy as imperial space (and thus technically no place is outside the imperium).

THere might, comrades, be thrones to be made in selling TO the Inqusition or the Mechanicus... which bypasses the restrictions since both these entities seem to be 'allowed' to own such things.

llsoth said:

The Imperium does have formal boundaries. There is a short story in the "Planetkill" BL anthology in which a planet is declared beyond the bounds of the Imperium and as such beyond the bounds of its law. Indeed the Koronus expanse is sort of within the Halo stars, which are sort of outside the galaxy.

The idea that Rogue Traders are outside the writ of the Imperium when physically outside the Imperium comes from an interpretation of the Warrant of Trade wording that comes with the special edition. I don't have my copy on me, but it talks along the lines of how the Rogue Trader speaks with the voice of the Emperor when beyond the bounds of the Imperium. This, logically, suggests two things:-

1. The Imperium has defined boundaries

2. Rogue Traders have Carte Blanche to operate as they see fit once beyond the bounds of the Imperium.

The warrant goes on to say that this power ends where the Imperium begins, so Rogue Traders fall within Imperial law again when they return to the Calixis sector. A bit like crossing the state line in the Dukes of Hazzard.

I believe you're correct, the Imperium does THEORETICALLY claim the entire galaxy, but they also recognise the practical limitations of their power. If a world/region is too much trouble to protect, they'll give it up and declare it outside Imperial space. A bit like the British did with Hong Kong.

Sending Rogue Traders into an unexplored region is a way of building strong local human controlled economies that can be used as stepping stones for an eventual crusade to create a new sector. It's cheaper than sending out a vast crusade force into the unknown from scratch, as they may never come back!

There's a few things to remember

1) The Rogue Trader has the legal right to trade with xenos who aren't rated Terriblus.

2) The Rogue Trader's special status relates to his ability to deal with those outside Imperial Space in ways that are illegal for most Imperial citizens. He doesn't lose those rights inside Imperial Space, they simply are mostly irrelevant.

3) The Cold Trade isn't of itself illegal, but some parts of it are illegal. It depends what you're selling, how you got it, where it is from (thus the obfuscation of origins so common among the Cold Trade to cover tender and vulnerable parts), and who you're selling it to.

Lightbringer said:

OMG, you just changed my entire plan for my campaign!

Peacekeeper_b said:

Let me guess: you're rewriting it to include running moonshine across the Imperial line to sell to them Strixis boys, avoiding an Ork in a white suit called Boss Hogg, and your main Rogue Trader is kissin' cousins with a hotpant wearing Sorotitas sister called Daisatus? In a ship called the Lord Militant Lee?

Lightbringer said:

Perfect! Im off to the GW store just to get a mega nob to make into Boss Hogg!

Lightbringer said:

Beats my cunning and devious Ork Freeboota Cap'n Borkbossa, Lord Captain Jaq Spaaro, and the myth of the corrupt Black Ship "The Flying Clansman", captained by the warp-corrupt Lord David Jownes.

MILLANDSON said:

Interesting side note: the myth of Davy Jones is apparently still going in the 41st millennium (in the Sabbat Worlds at least): the start of Blood Pact makes reference to "the Devil Jonas" having a terrible locker in the Warp, where he keeps the souls of lost and damned spacers. It's also hinted that Jonas is a common false name among ship-masters (probably as a macabre joke)...

Alasseo said:

.... and yoink! I think I'll have that idea instead

Actually the Rogue Traders Charter (or Warrant of Trade) isn't a specified-form document with all charters being similar. Far from it. Rogue Trader charters are individually crafted documents with specific, individual restrictions and allowances written down. It can be assumed that pretty much all Rogue Trader charters include the "allowance for free trade outside Imperial Space", which means that you are free to deal with xenos as much as you like as long as you stay outside Imperial Space.

However, some of the charters also include specific rights and allowances to the trader also inside Imperial Space and in some cases these might actually be pretty huge benefits. You have to remember that some of the oldest Rogue Trader Charters passed from one family to next might actually have Emperors own signature in them and thus anything written into them becomes Holy Word and Will of Emperor in Imperial Space. In novel "Legacy" one of the old Rogue Trader charters for example allowed the Rogue Trader and his fleet immeadeate, unquestioned access to their home port. Which meant that even though their home port had developed during the last 10 000 years from backwater planet to multi-billion people major Imperial Hiveworld they could jump into the system and drive right through Imperial Navy blockades and defences without even the courtecy of informing the Navy of who they are... and if it had turned into firefight between Rogue Trader fleet and Imperial Navy the Arbites would have arrested the Navy officers since the document giving the Rogue Trader these allowances had been signed 10 000 years ago with a big, shiny " I. "

llsoth said:

Xenos Horrificus and Terribilis is the same thing with Horrificus being the more commonly used (DH GM kit under Slaught, DH Radicals Handbook page 199, the novel "Warriors of Ultramar" etc.)

The only place it is named Terribilis is in RT 334.

But back to the question, as long as a Rogue Trader is discreet and keeps away from Trading with Xenos Horrificus like the Slaugth, and don't touch obviously dangerous things like Halo Devices he should be okay. as loong as the objects are not strictly prohibited by the Inquisition they tend to turn a blind eye, except for some of the most puritan ones.

Lightbringer said:

Not even close, sorry. HK was leased, even if the people making the lease gave no thought to returning it, since "ninety-nine years" seemed like forever, at the time. That lease was also essentially extorted in the first place and so was something that rankled with the Chinese even at the time. The lease was due to expire and the Chinese government of the day (now the PRC rather than a badly disunited and cowed Imperial China) made it quite clear that it wouldn't be renewed and the UK should remove anything they wanted to keep as it would be Chinese territory once more the very minute the lease was up and they intended to have troops on the ground, quite literally, ready to receive it back. Legally there was no question whatsoever regarding ownership and negotiation for a change of ownership was fruitless, so it was handed back as required by the contract and with quite a lot of ceremony.

No declaration, just contract law, no question of protection as the people who were 'threatening' it were the owners and the only legitimate question was one that was a hot topic at the time; am I a British subject if I was born in Hong Kong? In many cases, the answer was 'no' but it was possible to apply to become a British citizen with special consideration.

Fair enough. I guess my point is that if the Brits had the power in 1997 that they had in 1898, and China was still a fractious, disunited nation, there are grounds to suspect that we might have done the whole perfidious Albion thing and held onto Hong Kong irrespective of the terms of the contract.

Imperial Powers at their height tend to regard everyone else as inherently inferior, and we Brits were certainly guilty of that, back in the day.

To the extent that Rogue Trader - like all GW affiliated products - trades in identifiable historical archetypes to inform a deep science fiction setting, the archetype of explotative and cynical imperialist grabbing all he can under a hypocritical veneer of "civilising the natives" is a powerful one. As is the archetype of the hypocritical Imperial Bureaucrat who abandons whole peoples/civilisations to their fate when they're too much trouble.

Lightbringer said:

To the extent that Rogue Trader - like all GW affiliated products - trades in identifiable historical archetypes to inform a deep science fiction setting, the archetype of explotative and cynical imperialist grabbing all he can under a hypocritical veneer of "civilising the natives" is a powerful one. As is the archetype of the hypocritical Imperial Bureaucrat who abandons whole peoples/civilisations to their fate when they're too much trouble.

Don't forget the romance of HMS Navy in its days of sail which was essentially a bunch of pirates running around under the auspices of being either a capable thug with a ship holding a privateers writ or comissioned officers allowed to pillage fairly much anything floating that they could blast into submission when at sea and stole anything else that wasn't bolted down of value anywhere else. Of course, everyone got a cut of the profits so was just as murderously keen to get some hard cash.

Once you understand that mentality, you've pretty much figured out how to play rogue trader.

Pragmatically when dealing with Xeno's/native inhabitants, some days you'll be simply flying past showing the colours and trading trinkets, but give it long enough you'll probably be at war with them at some point soon.