By now, you may have heard about the rather cool Gunner, IG-88 B and IG-88 D (crew) interaction that was discovered recently. As a result of reading that batrep, I found out something that has always been in the rules, but I'd never really realised - range bonuses are optional. That leads me to the question: When do I decide I want to roll it?

The only time that you might want to roll fewer than the maximum evade dice that I can think of is when trying to take exactly one damage, and prevent gunner style attacks from triggering. So, if I am at range three, and being shot at with a primary weapon, can I roll my standard agility dice, see what I roll, then choose whether or not to roll the extra die?

My gut says yes, and that approach seems like the simplest given the other rules around rolling dice. Given that you can roll more dice up to your agility if you accidentally roll too few, there would seem to be no meaningful difference between accidentally forgetting your range bonus and choosing not to use it until you declare one way or the other, so I guess the real question is: When, if ever, do you have to declare how many dice you're rolling?

I think you misread it. Bonus dice are not optional.

That been said, the attack timing chart clearly states when you have to resolve effects that increase or decrease the number of dice.

If you forget to use some, its a missed opportunity. You cannot choose to use it after rolling, because its time of resolving has passed.

With the sole exception at the moment of Lightweight Frame, you have to do all the effects that change your number of dice before you roll any of them. See the timing chart in the FAQ for why.

By now, you may have heard about the rather cool Gunner, IG-88 B and IG-88 D (crew) interaction that was discovered recently. As a result of reading that batrep, I found out something that has always been in the rules, but I'd never really realised - range bonuses are optional. That leads me to the question: When do I decide I want to roll it?

The only time that you might want to roll fewer than the maximum evade dice that I can think of is when trying to take exactly one damage, and prevent gunner style attacks from triggering. So, if I am at range three, and being shot at with a primary weapon, can I roll my standard agility dice, see what I roll, then choose whether or not to roll the extra die?

My gut says yes, and that approach seems like the simplest given the other rules around rolling dice. Given that you can roll more dice up to your agility if you accidentally roll too few, there would seem to be no meaningful difference between accidentally forgetting your range bonus and choosing not to use it until you declare one way or the other, so I guess the real question is: When, if ever, do you have to declare how many dice you're rolling?

In order for something to be optional in the game, it will use the word "may", as in "you may..."

Page 5: If attacking at Range 1 with its primary weapon, the attacker rolls one additional attack die.

Page 5: If defending at Range 3 against a primary weapon attack, the defender rolls one additional defense die.

Page 14: If an attack is obstructed, the defender rolls one additional defense die during the “Roll Defense Dice” step.

Note that none of these rules use the word "may", so they're not optional. And if you intentionally decide to "accidentally" forget to add said bonus dice, be prepared to be accused of cheating, because that's what you'd be doing.

By now, you may have heard about the rather cool Gunner, IG-88 B and IG-88 D (crew) interaction that was discovered recently. As a result of reading that batrep, I found out something that has always been in the rules, but I'd never really realised - range bonuses are optional. That leads me to the question: When do I decide I want to roll it?

The only time that you might want to roll fewer than the maximum evade dice that I can think of is when trying to take exactly one damage, and prevent gunner style attacks from triggering. So, if I am at range three, and being shot at with a primary weapon, can I roll my standard agility dice, see what I roll, then choose whether or not to roll the extra die?

My gut says yes, and that approach seems like the simplest given the other rules around rolling dice. Given that you can roll more dice up to your agility if you accidentally roll too few, there would seem to be no meaningful difference between accidentally forgetting your range bonus and choosing not to use it until you declare one way or the other, so I guess the real question is: When, if ever, do you have to declare how many dice you're rolling?

In order for something to be optional in the game, it will use the word "may", as in "you may..."

Page 5: If attacking at Range 1 with its primary weapon, the attacker rolls one additional attack die.

Page 5: If defending at Range 3 against a primary weapon attack, the defender rolls one additional defense die.

Page 14: If an attack is obstructed, the defender rolls one additional defense die during the “Roll Defense Dice” step.

Note that none of these rules use the word "may", so they're not optional. And if you intentionally decide to "accidentally" forget to add said bonus dice, be prepared to be accused of cheating, because that's what you'd be doing.

Page 20 of the FAQ adds onto this:

Q: During an attack, can the defender choose not to roll defense dice? Can the attacker choose not to roll attack dice? A: No and no.

So you must roll defense dice, and you must roll all appropriate defense dice. If you roll less than what you are supposed to, you roll those extra dice into the pool.

"When, if ever, do you have to declare how many dice you're rolling?"

I would recommend declaring how many dice you are rolling whenever a game effect (mandatory or optional) affects the number of dice being thrown:

- Range effects are not optional

- An ability like swarm leader is

Personally I treat all dice rolls like I do on Vassal. If I declare the attack, I declare how many dice im rolling and how many dice I expect my opponent to roll, It allows for clarification prior to the roll, and generally relieves stress.

Personally I treat all dice rolls like I do on Vassal. If I declare the attack, I declare how many dice im rolling and how many dice I expect my opponent to roll, It allows for clarification prior to the roll, and generally relieves stress.

Technically your opponent does not determine how many dice to roll until the roll attack dice step is entirely complete. That said, making sure everyone is on the same page for how many dice are rolled and why is a good practice.

By now, you may have heard about the rather cool Gunner, IG-88 B and IG-88 D (crew) interaction that was discovered recently. As a result of reading that batrep, I found out something that has always been in the rules, but I'd never really realised - range bonuses are optional. That leads me to the question: When do I decide I want to roll it?

The only time that you might want to roll fewer than the maximum evade dice that I can think of is when trying to take exactly one damage, and prevent gunner style attacks from triggering. So, if I am at range three, and being shot at with a primary weapon, can I roll my standard agility dice, see what I roll, then choose whether or not to roll the extra die?

My gut says yes, and that approach seems like the simplest given the other rules around rolling dice. Given that you can roll more dice up to your agility if you accidentally roll too few, there would seem to be no meaningful difference between accidentally forgetting your range bonus and choosing not to use it until you declare one way or the other, so I guess the real question is: When, if ever, do you have to declare how many dice you're rolling?

In order for something to be optional in the game, it will use the word "may", as in "you may..."

Page 5: If attacking at Range 1 with its primary weapon, the attacker rolls one additional attack die.

Page 5: If defending at Range 3 against a primary weapon attack, the defender rolls one additional defense die.

Page 14: If an attack is obstructed, the defender rolls one additional defense die during the “Roll Defense Dice” step.

Note that none of these rules use the word "may", so they're not optional. And if you intentionally decide to "accidentally" forget to add said bonus dice, be prepared to be accused of cheating, because that's what you'd be doing.

Indeed. A better phrasing there would be 'might roll additional dice' - it's noting that the dice are conditional, not that they're both conditional AND optional.

Yep, misread it. A comment in the Reddit thread made me think it was optional, then finding the "may" that WWHSD quotes prompted me to post this topic to confirm.

Thanks for pointing out the error everyone.

While you don't need to roll all of your dice simultaneously, which is impossible if you don't have enough dice to cover all that you are supposed to roll, you do have to declare how many dice will be rolled and can't change that number once you start. If you don't roll them all at once you can't use later rolls to alter the dice of an earlier portion of the roll.

While you may not be required to roll all dice simultaneously there should NEVER be any gain for doing so. If you have the dice the reasons for rolling fewer than all of them almost always involve cheating or attempts to cheat be it attempted dice manipulation or simply stalling. The only barely acceptable excuse would be for "dramatic effect" when the game hinges on a roll and even that really shouldn't be done.

How many dice are rolled is determined before you ever start rolling. Anything after the roll would be dice modifications.

While you don't need to roll all of your dice simultaneously, which is impossible if you don't have enough dice to cover all that you are supposed to roll, you do have to declare how many dice will be rolled and can't change that number once you start. If you don't roll them all at once you can't use later rolls to alter the dice of an earlier portion of the roll.

While you may not be required to roll all dice simultaneously there should NEVER be any gain for doing so. If you have the dice the reasons for rolling fewer than all of them almost always involve cheating or attempts to cheat be it attempted dice manipulation or simply stalling. The only barely acceptable excuse would be for "dramatic effect" when the game hinges on a roll and even that really shouldn't be done.

How many dice are rolled is determined before you ever start rolling. Anything after the roll would be dice modifications.

With the exception of Lightweight Frame, yes.

...stuff....

How many dice are rolled is determined before you ever start rolling. Anything after the roll would be dice modifications.

With the exception of Lightweight Frame, yes.

Although looking at Lightweight Frame you should already know if it will be used or not. Is there some way to change the number of attack dice during the roll defense step that I'm not seeing?

...stuff....

How many dice are rolled is determined before you ever start rolling. Anything after the roll would be dice modifications.

With the exception of Lightweight Frame, yes.

Although looking at Lightweight Frame you should already know if it will be used or not. Is there some way to change the number of attack dice during the roll defense step that I'm not seeing?

Assume a bwing has accuracy corrector. Range 1 is 4 dice. Attacker rolls 4 dice, corrects to 2 hits. The defender (assuming 2 agi) will NOT receive the dice from lightweight frame.

...stuff....

How many dice are rolled is determined before you ever start rolling. Anything after the roll would be dice modifications.

With the exception of Lightweight Frame, yes.

Although looking at Lightweight Frame you should already know if it will be used or not. Is there some way to change the number of attack dice during the roll defense step that I'm not seeing?

Assume a bwing has accuracy corrector. Range 1 is 4 dice. Attacker rolls 4 dice, corrects to 2 hits. The defender (assuming 2 agi) will NOT receive the dice from lightweight frame.

And that correction should be known before the dice are even rolled. After all the "modify attack step" should be over before you roll defense dice. I can think of no situation where the use of Lightweight Frame wouldn't be determined before the defense dice start flying provided you are playing correctly.

Although looking at Lightweight Frame you should already know if it will be used or not. Is there some way to change the number of attack dice during the roll defense step that I'm not seeing? [Emphasis added]

Assume a bwing has accuracy corrector. Range 1 is 4 dice. Attacker rolls 4 dice, corrects to 2 hits. The defender (assuming 2 agi) will NOT receive the dice from lightweight frame.

I almost made the same mistake, but that's not quite what he asked.

The answer is that, yes, you already know whether the extra die will be rolled, but the function of Lightweight Frame is to prevent the effect getting stacked. Because of how effects work, there is an outside possibility that you could add a dice to the roll for Lightweight Frame and then add a dice from elsewhere to end up with four dice if the card wasn't worded the way it was. The wording requires that all other effects that add to your dice roll be done first, preventing any unwanted stacking.

So that answer is yes, you'll know in advance – and functionally may as well roll it together – but the distinction serves a mechanical purpose.

So that answer is yes, you'll know in advance – and functionally may as well roll it together – but the distinction serves a mechanical purpose.

It'll make a difference as soon as Sabine steals a TIE Bomber.

TIE Bomber with title, Lightweight Frame, and C-3PO. C-3PO gets to guess whether or not the Lightweight Frame die comes up as an evade.

It's also to prevent infinite looping (you have 3 i have 2. I add lwf now i have 3 so i can't add it so i take it out now i have 2 etc) and to prevent adding it before the range/obstruction dice and ending up with more.

It should be noted that with alliance overhaul on the ARC, you can ignore the extra attack die from the title if you so choose. (Often used with stressbot and gunner so more likely to double stress a target or stress two different targets).

Having watched a game last night where an already slow-ass player sometimes rolled his dice once at a time, I would say that for the sake of speed alone, roll 'em all together. The game I watched went to time, and while I don't think this guy was purposefully playing slow; the individual dice rolling certainly contributed to a slow game which he ended up winning on points.

Having watched a game last night where an already slow-ass player sometimes rolled his dice once at a time, I would say that for the sake of speed alone, roll 'em all together. The game I watched went to time, and while I don't think this guy was purposefully playing slow; the individual dice rolling certainly contributed to a slow game which he ended up winning on points.

One more instance of "Don't be *that* guy"... I hate it when people are obviously exploiting the patience and goodwill of others just to gain an advantage. And when you do call them out on it, they'll either get pissed or say "oh, I didn't even notice - you don't mind, do you?" Like hell I do!

I've come up with a case where rolling less defense dices would be cool.

You got Quickdraw in a perfect spot between two ship with 1 hull each.

Now you will be happy to throw the extra dice after the result. So you try to take 1 hit only and trigger Quickdraw

Against gunner attacker too, but I think someone already suggested it.

Having watched a game last night where an already slow-ass player sometimes rolled his dice once at a time, I would say that for the sake of speed alone, roll 'em all together. The game I watched went to time, and while I don't think this guy was purposefully playing slow; the individual dice rolling certainly contributed to a slow game which he ended up winning on points.

One more instance of "Don't be *that* guy"... I hate it when people are obviously exploiting the patience and goodwill of others just to gain an advantage. And when you do call them out on it, they'll either get pissed or say "oh, I didn't even notice - you don't mind, do you?" Like hell I do!

I genuinely think he wasn't doing it on purposes; he just had a very relaxed, 'take it easy' sort of personality and play style. But did result in very slow play.