After reading through ideas here, and some thought, I wonder if we might see a "third faction" idea explored not so much in ship releases, as we could in another campaign set. Someone touched on the idea earlier (forget who, so credit to them) and I think another campaign set could create what several people are asking for without compromising the over-all game.

Boarding actions, pirate fleets...pretty much every "specialized" form of warfare does have its place, but I also agree that it doesn't make much sense in the over-all scope of the game itself. A criminal organization doesn't exist to replace power, it exists to have it. A confrontation with the Empire would be a costly, resource draining, bad for business tract. it would make so much more sense to manipulate contracts to be the company building those ships, and embezzle.

Now this doesn't mean no one ever tried to resist the Empire. But I agree that when they did, more often than not the Empire sent a fleet and squashed them.

A campaign set with exactly this idea, allowing for rules using mixed fleets, boarding actions, new characters and abilities (usable only within the campaign setting) to play out these "exception to the rules" ideas.

They could even include a few "campaign specific" ships for the release. Imagine a box set similar to the Armada set, except it comes with an old droid command ship from Clone Wars, a "rogue" SSD with a new paint job, troop transports, or other such goodies.

Just a thought?

Though, one last comment on boarding actions. I know I've talked in the past how they could/might work in the game, but after the comment on "only certain sized ships can be the targets of boarding actions," I honestly think they'd make more sense in X-Wing. The "epic" scale ships are small enough in crew members that boarding could be a "realistic" goal versus trying to "shoehorn" in the idea.

(I've been out of the circuit for awhile now, so I apologize if I'm way off base on any of this)

*edit*
And, actually, following that tract of thought, I guess boarding actions make even more sense to be in Imperial Assault using ship interior maps. Hmm. :/

I like the idea of neutral or limited deployment ships. Like, you can take one, so you don't end up with a situation like we have with Firesprays, YT2400's, etc representing the entire fleet's line squadrons or other ships (because they have been more efficient to field for popular builds than traditional units). I like the idea of wrapping objectives around outposts, neutral ships, blockage runners, etc. A lot of possibilities there. Be nice to have a mercenary ship or two, maybe uniques, or stolen prototypes. Also nice to have missions/objectives built around escorting a group of generic GR-75's across the map, or Goz's down to planet orbit for insertion, or other other such special missions.

As to boarding, I still don't think it's practical in normal gameplay. The boarding actions that have happened in the films have been against already defeated/immobilized ships, and in the heat of battle it's just not practical.

I'm completely fine with insulting those kind of close minded individuals.

And therein lies the problem.

Insulting others tends to be frowned upon here - regardless of whether, in your opinion, the targets deserve it or not.

You should try looking around here through the eyes of someone new. It's real close minded. The kind of close mindedness that tends to cross its arms and "essentially" insult others in hopes of high fives from the longterm membership.

I'm completely fine with insulting those kind of close minded individuals.

And therein lies the problem.

Insulting others tends to be frowned upon here - regardless of whether, in your opinion, the targets deserve it or not.

You may hope these forums are that way, but that doesn't make it true.

You should try looking around here through the eyes of someone new. It's real close minded. The kind of close mindedness that tends to cross its arms and "essentially" insult others in hopes of high fives from the longterm membership.

I'm new around here, but still think you are an idiot. Hope that helps...

I'm completely fine with insulting those kind of close minded individuals.

And therein lies the problem.

Insulting others tends to be frowned upon here - regardless of whether, in your opinion, the targets deserve it or not.

You may hope these forums are that way, but that doesn't make it true.

You should try looking around here through the eyes of someone new. It's real close minded. The kind of close mindedness that tends to cross its arms and "essentially" insult others in hopes of high fives from the longterm membership.

So there is a difference between being open to discussion about a topic, and having an opinion on a topic and being aggressive when someone does not agree with you. You've already done the latter in your other thread after a few people said they did not think scum would be in Armada. And then you made this passive aggressive post to "one up" the people who said no to your other thread.

It's close minded to walk into a forum and say "I predicted scum in X-Wing, and I predict scum in Armada. Look, FFG has epic scum now." and then you literally said "Oh vomit. This argument again?!? This was the same thing everyone said about it in X-wing. Didn't think I'd find that same naysayers' attitude with this crowd. Guess you learn something everyday.

Talk to you guys later on when they release a Scum and Villainy faction "

So who is the close minded one?

And you know what happened after? Forresto asked the community how a third faction could be incorporated into Armada. And there were well thought, constructive answers.

Notice the difference yet?

If you ask a question, and actually engage in a meaningful discussion, people will not shut you down. If you were to ask how you could have scum for you to play at home, there would be a ton of people interested in giving advice.

Empire at War Force of Corruption anyone? There's a full fleet of Scum.

Also what I remember of Tie Fighter all those years ago, there were plenty of minor factions/systems with fleets but they were made up mainly of Z95's, Y's, CR90's and Neb B's.

So with just a little thought you can theme a rebel list to represent any one of these minor factions - by the same logic you could do break away Imperial factions also ie Admirals Harkon or Zarrin's battle group's.

I know there game's are no longer canon but they used to exist and as we've seen a lot of things are being brought forward from old to new (defenders, thrawn etc).

Now if you'll excuse me I'll go back to lurking...

E@W was entirely before Disney took over and erased roughly 99% of the existing canon, especially ships that haven't previously appeared in a film or cartoon source. Anything that have been reintroduced from those games is in spite of it's origins, not because of them. Disney has shown that it vastly prefers to create new ships instead of repurposing ships from Legends sources other than the cartoon, unless those designs closely match the Star Wars film and cartoon design aesthetic.

I would be perfectly happy with the introduction of a new faction capable of presenting a fleet, even a mercenary faction. But it needs to come from elsewhere in the Star Wars universe. Something that can be presented as a unified force capable and willing to fight both the Rebellion and the Empire. I don't want just a bunch of smugglers and bounty hunters thrown together like they did for X-Wing, Armada really requires the concept of an organized navy to be present in its fleet design.

@Flavor of hubris

"I have a close minded opinion, therefore I'm entitled to insult others and call them close minded"

Did I get that right?

By the by... If Disney and FFG sign off on a whole campaign then it's valid and possible as canon. Why? Because they say so. It's their IP and their universe. Their opinion makes it so, sadly, for you, yours just makes noise.

I'm completely fine with insulting those kind of close minded individuals.

And therein lies the problem.

Insulting others tends to be frowned upon here - regardless of whether, in your opinion, the targets deserve it or not.

And yet I see lots of it on this forum all the time, if people do not agree with what others are saying. So based on what I have seen I would not say it is frowned on here at all.

How could a scum faction be incorporated into Armada?

• 50% squadron allowance
• Flotillas and light ships only. Space station miniatures available, and they are the only medium-large offering. If you choose a station, you arrange all the terrain on the entire board at your leisure, as it's your **** lawn.
• Scum can purchase extra terrain pieces / armed asteroid miniatures.
• Ships/squadrons that can naturally 'hyperspace assault' without need for that particular mission, or.... respawn. Yep, like Tyranid Assault.
• ​Squadrons that have 3 different ship models on a single base.
• Transports that gain VPs simply for leaving the playing area and escaping via the opposing player's edge

Some time ago I looked up the idea of Scum as it was described in the RPG range. I couldn't find all that much, but from memory a scum fleet of a sorts did fly around. In general my 1-3 Flotilla class of ships, 2-3 Corvette class of ships and 8-16 snub fighters. As it suffered losses it was unable to replace them and in general it struggled.

Yet, many private and planetary navies consist of a hand full of snub fighters. When the Millennium Falcon goes to Bespin they are greeted by a few snubs and flown in.

As such my opinion that scum probably works fine in X-Wing, but in Armada the scope if just too grandiose for such a small and minor fleet to be represented and actually fit the theme of the game.

Some time ago I looked up the idea of Scum as it was described in the RPG range. I couldn't find all that much, but from memory a scum fleet of a sorts did fly around. In general my 1-3 Flotilla class of ships, 2-3 Corvette class of ships and 8-16 snub fighters. As it suffered losses it was unable to replace them and in general it struggled.

Yet, many private and planetary navies consist of a hand full of snub fighters. When the Millennium Falcon goes to Bespin they are greeted by a few snubs and flown in.

As such my opinion that scum probably works fine in X-Wing, but in Armada the scope if just too grandiose for such a small and minor fleet to be represented and actually fit the theme of the game.

This is why I think scum should be station-based, and have attacking their home as a hallmark of any battle scum are in, as they wouldn't be sending their navy off on a grand design.

Any scum v scum fight would be like a civil war, between two neighboring stations. Gritty.

Maybe you shouldn't be a fantastic representation of this forum's populace and actually read something before posting on it. But just for you, I'll summarize so you won't have to waste too much time between meals:

You can't just insult "this forum's populace" and expect them not to turn on you and "get high-fives from the long-term membership." Particularly when you show up with easily falsifiable accusations: most of the people here are very appreciative of in-depth, well though-out posts, and actually take the time to read them. One of the most popular posts of all time on here is Ginkapo's long-ass "this is how I MC30" article.

The larger irony in play, of course, is that you would have known this to be true if you yourself had done a little reading before posting.

We're all about new folks expressing ideas and opinions, even dissenting ones. But a little bit of social awareness goes a long way. You don't walk into a new school or workplace or whatever and tell everybody they're all doing it wrong on day one unless you're very prepared to back up your position. It's no different on the internet.

You also don't win any converts by lashing out at people who disagree with your dissenting opinions. Honey vs vinegar and all that.

IF you felt the need to put Scum into Armada (an idea I do not like at all... clone war first please) it could be fun if it mandated a lower point level... otherwise the Scum would just be mercs for Rebels and Imps.

200 feels about right.

IF you felt the need to put Scum into Armada (an idea I do not like at all... clone war first please) it could be fun if it mandated a lower point level... otherwise the Scum would just be mercs for Rebels and Imps.

200 feels about right.

Not sure I follow. Are you saying they should always fight at a dramatic disadvantage, or that the point cost of their ships should be scaled to 50%?

The former sounds... well, blatantly unbalanced, obviously. Short of any kind of balancing factor like, I don't know, crazy-good admirals or something

The latter would have the interesting effect of effectively doubling the cost of non-faction-specific upgrades for them, strongly incentivizing them to use unmodified ships. Which kind of seems like the opposite of what you'd want thematically, if you think about it.

I guess either way you're proposing, I disagree, though I might be persuaded if you have more detailed ideas that might address these issues.

I'm just saying that a Scum campaign or expansion that encouraged 200 point battles and introduced pirate and raiding type missions (which we have in CC, but it could be fleshed out more) would be interesting.

So when playing "Scum" you would play a 200 point match against 200 points of Rebels or Imperials. If not wanting to do this, Scum ships would also be treated as neutrals outside of this faster pace/more skirmish like play mode.

So neither of what you thought I meant (sorry, my fault, unclear)... just smaller battles... plus put them on a 3x3... better for people with limited space too... this skirmish mode might also ban large ships and have rules that would allow traditional Imperial v Rebel matches too (no need to have scum to go do a "scum scaled" match).

EDIT: I do like the idea of giving them pointed out asteroid hangers, bases, etc too

I'm just saying that a Scum campaign or expansion that encouraged 200 point battles and introduced pirate and raiding type missions (which we have in CC, but it could be fleshed out more) would be interesting.

So when playing "Scum" you would play a 200 point match against 200 points of Rebels or Imperials. If not wanting to do this, Scum ships would also be treated as neutrals outside of this faster pace/more skirmish like play mode.

So neither of what you thought I meant... just smaller battles... plus put them on a 3x3... better for people with limited space too... this skirmish mode might also ban large ships and have rules that would allow traditional Imperial v Rebel matches too (no need to have scum to go do a "scum scaled" match).

EDIT: I do like the idea of giving them pointed out asteroid hangers, bases, etc too

Ah, got it, so you're talking strictly within the scope of the hypothetical scum campaign.

I can get behind that piece, though I don't see it scaling out to standard/tournament play. Could be a nice direction to take a campaign that you want geared to provide shorter but more frequent games, more comparable to X-wing games in terms of time and space required. I don't see a ban on large ships cutting it, though: ISD routing out pirates is pretty freaking awesome imo.

Another perk, cheaper for the new guys to get into too... maybe package a soft "scum starter set" with a campaign box for some Outer Rim Campaign?

AS much as I wish Armada could become a three faction game because I often find 2 faction tournament matchups to be boring (oh look, it is Soviet vs Soviet again on Red Alert, lets go see what's they are playing Starcraft instead). I'd hate to say but the structure is all set up to NOT have a 3rd faction with the scum ships already being divided among the two factions. It is sort of funny but on some of their star wars games the ones that focus on local skirmishes there is a neutral scum faction but for the larger scope games there is just Light/Rebels vs Dark/Imperial.

Rebel Imperial & Scum

• Star Wars Role Playing
• Imperial Assault Skirmish
• X-wing minatures

Only Rebel/Light vs Empire/Dark

• Star Wars the Card Game
• Star Wars Armada
• Star Wars Rebellion
• Empire vs Rebellion

Has anyone brought up tyber zahn from empire at war?

I also believe the mandalorians have capital ships, no?

11 minutes ago, AlexGamz said:

Has anyone brought up tyber zahn from empire at war?

I also believe the mandalorians have capital ships, no?

Yes. He was created specifically for it, and thus, is non-canon. This is considered by many to be a strike against it happening. (Two, really - being not part of the greater Star Wars EU, and then, not being re-canonized).

Same with teh Mandalorians. That hasn't been re-established in Canon. Fighters, yes. Capital Ships, no.

If you want a pirate fleet you could just use Existing factions to do it. A little paint and you can have your pirate fleet. Making the Zann Consortium out of what we already have for Imperials is a cake walk. If you really want to you can always get an Acclamator or Venator from a 3rd party.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zann_Consortium/Legends#Fleet

And never forget the reddest(and piratey-est) star destroyer that ever there was.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Errant_Venture

For a rebel flavored pirate fleet You can run as the Black Sun, but this is a little more of a stretch because it would rely on the Liberty class and Neb-b classes.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Sun/Legends#Ships

And it might break cannon(what an unprecedented disaster!) a bit but I fancy making a fleet of the Lok Revenants because I like Nym
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lok_Revenants

If you try you can get that sweet scum flavor without having to wait for a third faction that may never come.

I hadn't thought of Scum as a low point option for a campaign box. That could work and would allow enough Scum squads released at once. Ys, Z95s, TIE Fighters, Interceptors, Bombers. All with a new faction icon and possibly uniques.

Not likely to happen, but a neat idea

On 11/01/2017 at 11:28 PM, Teloch said:

If the Rebels were able to bring together ships big enough to fight, no, harass the Empire then why couldn't a criminal organisation? The Hutts have the funds to purchase ships and hire crews, so does black sun. Numerous pirate groups have modified smaller vessels. I cant think of anything similar in size to an ISD but plenty that would give a lone VSD or a bunch of frigates/corvettes trouble.

I'm not opposed to a third faction, but I am opposed to a 3rd faction just for more ship sales, it would need to "work" thematically and in gameplay. Also balancing another faction in Armada could be difficult.

And if you don't hate me enough already, I would like to see a Traitor (defector) VSD for the Rebels.

Yes! Admiral Harkov haha didnt he have an interdicor with him too? or was that what he was chasing before vader came for him?

Pretty sure when the rebellion started up they had virtually zero capital ships, then they stole a load, retrofitted some more, and for the most part they use fighters, we see the entirety of the rebel fleet at endor pretty much, and it is not that big. Mon cal converts cruise ships into huge ships capable of going toe to toe with ISD's.

You telling me something like the Black Sun organisation or the Hutt syndicates cannot do the same thing? steal some, retrofit others, and the Rebellion couldnt easily replace any loses, and yet we have a Rebel faction.

The Star Wars universe is just that, a Universe, and it's based in a Galaxy, do you have any concept how large a space that is? literally billions of suns, and billions of planets and billions of asteroids, literally awash in materials and potential for any sort of addition to the existing cannon.

25 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

Pretty sure when the rebellion started up they had virtually zero capital ships, then they stole a load, retrofitted some more, and for the most part they use fighters, we see the entirety of the rebel fleet at endor pretty much, and it is not that big. Mon cal converts cruise ships into huge ships capable of going toe to toe with ISD's.

You telling me something like the Black Sun organisation or the Hutt syndicates cannot do the same thing? steal some, retrofit others, and the Rebellion couldnt easily replace any loses, and yet we have a Rebel faction.

The Star Wars universe is just that, a Universe, and it's based in a Galaxy, do you have any concept how large a space that is? literally billions of suns, and billions of planets and billions of asteroids, literally awash in materials and potential for any sort of addition to the existing cannon.

But to what benefit would the crime organisations gain from having a fleet?

A fleet of warships has one purpose. To exert control over a region of space.

The Rebellion has a reason to expend the resources to have a fleet. The Empire does as well. The crime organisations? Sure their leaders are interested in power, but not really political power. A fleet needs resources, manpower and even worse will attract attention from those who actually do want to control those regions.

A few star fighters and maybe a corvette sized ship or two really isn't a threat to Imperial control. A single Star Destroyer would be able to deal with them if they get a bit too frisky. Start to build a fleet, and the possibility increases that an Imperial officer who has enough authority, and maybe ambition, might wonder why they are building a fleet and decide to apply an Imperial sledgehammer to the question before they need to explain it to someone less forgiving.

The risk of having a real fleet is more than the reward for those organisations.