It happens that more and more people are playing this game, and humans, in enough numbers, have behaviors calculables as particles.

Like a lots of gas molecules, they will expand until they fill up all the possible space (ruleset) and will tend to "escape" by any possible slit.

This is not bad per se, is useful to detect those "slits" and mending the system afterward.

Hey guys, so being the guy who actually got top 8 at the TN regional with this combo, it has been incredibly entertaining watching this list spread all over the forums and Reddit.

This combo in it's current form does play out where as others have stated "immediately" in the current rule set as written means nothing and is arbitrary. Do I agree with this and think this combo is how it is intended? Not in the least.

Loop holes in card text

Playing lists even though you know it's not how it was designed

Timing chart shenanigans

Shoot at the ship you don't want to hit???

What is happening to this game and the people who play it

The interactions may not be intended, but that doesn't make them illegal.

Hey guys, so being the guy who actually got top 8 at the TN regional with this combo, it has been incredibly entertaining watching this list spread all over the forums and Reddit.

This combo in it's current form does play out where as others have stated "immediately" in the current rule set as written means nothing and is arbitrary. Do I agree with this and think this combo is how it is intended? Not in the least.

Thanks for weighing in on this, but I understand from the above that you play or have played a list that essentially you don't think should be possible, or that you don't condone. Is that correct?

I don't think that this is the intended outcome of interactions, but until there is an

Official FAQ or Frank retcons his ruling, it's legal and I plan on playing it.

Loop holes in card text

Playing lists even though you know it's not how it was designed

Timing chart shenanigans

Shoot at the ship you don't want to hit???

What is happening to this game and the people who play it

The interactions may not be intended, but that doesn't make them illegal.

It's the spirit of the game that lies in a broken pile here

Shoot at the ship you don't want to hit???

Loop holes in card text

Playing lists even though you know it's not how it was designed

Timing chart shenanigans

Shoot at the ship you don't want to hit???

What is happening to this game and the people who play it

The interactions may not be intended, but that doesn't make them illegal.

Er, where did I say that?

It's the spirit of the game that lies in a broken pile here

Because someone found a weird rules interaction that isn't even that strong? It's not like this is even the first time people have suggested trying to purposely miss shots for Gunner shenanigans, this is just the first time it's resulted in something that can be effective. It's an interesting use of cards that only works in a very specific list, if FFG thinks it's really a problem they'll issue an errata and the game will keep on rolling.

The decimator and the phatom, or any other ship with crew and systems slots can use gunner+FCS, and so, will try to miss the first shot.

Before the timing chart came out, I'd've agreed with out.

But now, in the context of making extra attacks, 'immediately' seems to have little or no meaning, given that there are a wide range of things that happen in between missing with an attack, and resolving Gunner/Luke/Baze.

It's not as much the choosing one over the other part, it's getting the third attack regardless of the second one hitting or not. I would say if you hit with the second, you couldn't have the third because you missed gunners opportunity.

I"m starting to wonder if this is the same person just making multiple accounts on FFG. Soon we will have some forum poster who's avatar's name is Pay2Win@X-wing.

Also why hasn't this thread been locked yet?

The decimator and the phatom, or any other ship with crew and systems slots can use gunner+FCS, and so, will try to miss the first shot.

soon to add to that list is the upsilon with gunner +fcs +operation specialist

Hey guys, so being the guy who actually got top 8 at the TN regional with this combo, it has been incredibly entertaining watching this list spread all over the forums and Reddit.

This combo in it's current form does play out where as others have stated "immediately" in the current rule set as written means nothing and is arbitrary. Do I agree with this and think this combo is how it is intended? Not in the least.

Thanks for weighing in on this, but I understand from the above that you play or have played a list that essentially you don't think should be possible, or that you don't condone. Is that correct?

I don't think that this is the intended outcome of interactions, but until there is an

Official FAQ or Frank retcons his ruling, it's legal and I plan on playing it.

The decimator and the phatom, or any other ship with crew and systems slots can use gunner+FCS, and so, will try to miss the first shot.

soon to add to that list is the upsilon with gunner +fcs +operation specialist

And decimator is not, my error.

Bwing,Uwing,VCX100,lambda, phantom, upsilon, G1A, and now 666.

Hey guys, so being the guy who actually got top 8 at the TN regional with this combo, it has been incredibly entertaining watching this list spread all over the forums and Reddit.

This combo in it's current form does play out where as others have stated "immediately" in the current rule set as written means nothing and is arbitrary. Do I agree with this and think this combo is how it is intended? Not in the least.

Thanks for weighing in on this, but I understand from the above that you play or have played a list that essentially you don't think should be possible, or that you don't condone. Is that correct?

I don't think that this is the intended outcome of interactions, but until there is an

Official FAQ or Frank retcons his ruling, it's legal and I plan on playing it.

Yes, I understand it is legal, but I am wondering if you play something that goes against how you think the game should be played in a normative sense, or ethical if you will. Like someone who thinks Palpatine is OP but still plays Palpatine+aces.

I'd say it's a pretty subtle line for me personally. Although I don't think that the IG-B/Gunner combo was explicitly intended it also doesn't feel explicitly unintended. It's a combination of cards that works in a somewhat unexpected way but given the sheer number of card combos in X-wing it's not all that surprising that not every single one is fully thought through in an explicit manner. Plus it is a combination of cards that you have to pay points for and doesn't really push the power curve as a result. So in this case I would have no compunction playing this combo.

Contrast that to the U-wing's red stop while stressed. In that situation a single card was definitely intended to have the U-wing stop and flip a 180. It was definitely not intended to allow it to flip a 180 and then do a 2 straight if it's already stressed. That one I have a real problem with.

...Like someone who thinks Palpatine is OP but still plays Palpatine+aces.

Wouldn't you be a hypocrite if you thought Palp Aces was too strong and didn't play it. Who says, "That's too good. I better not play it."?

...Like someone who thinks Palpatine is OP but still plays Palpatine+aces.

Wouldn't you be a hypocrite if you thought Palp Aces was too strong and didn't play it. Who says, "That's too good. I better not play it."?

...Like someone who thinks Palpatine is OP but still plays Palpatine+aces.

Wouldn't you be a hypocrite if you thought Palp Aces was too strong and didn't play it. Who says, "That's too good. I better not play it."?

People that aren't dicks...?

I get playing tier 1 meta lists in competitive tournies. But it's missing half the point of the game, to most people, to play them exclusively and only care about winning

...Like someone who thinks Palpatine is OP but still plays Palpatine+aces.

Wouldn't you be a hypocrite if you thought Palp Aces was too strong and didn't play it. Who says, "That's too good. I better not play it."?

I say that. Often. I have an intense dislike about using meta lists regardless of what I'm playing, casual or major tournament.

I dont think we need to worry about this list until it starts winning regionals/nationals, etc. A top 8 means it can be competitive, but 2 TLT HWKs with 3 Z95s and Homing Missiles won a regionals last month. Let's wait on the "broken" part. Broken is deadeye on scouts, phantom pre-nerf, and even overclocked + zuckuss. This is far from that.

Can we acknowledge that people play games for different reasons? Some want to test their skills tactically, others want to build new and interesting lists, some just want to hang out. Just because you like to play a certain way doesn't make you a "****" unless you're being insulting or cheating. If this list is legal, there's nothing about that breaks any "spirit of the game" or ruins X-Wing.

EDIT: spelling

Hey guys, so being the guy who actually got top 8 at the TN regional with this combo, it has been incredibly entertaining watching this list spread all over the forums and Reddit.

This combo in it's current form does play out where as others have stated "immediately" in the current rule set as written means nothing and is arbitrary. Do I agree with this and think this combo is how it is intended? Not in the least.

Thanks for weighing in on this, but I understand from the above that you play or have played a list that essentially you don't think should be possible, or that you don't condone. Is that correct?

I don't think that this is the intended outcome of interactions, but until there is an

Official FAQ or Frank retcons his ruling, it's legal and I plan on playing it.

Yes, I understand it is legal, but I am wondering if you play something that goes against how you think the game should be played in a normative sense, or ethical if you will. Like someone who thinks Palpatine is OP but still plays Palpatine+aces.

I think that any competitive player that doesn't use the best possible tools at their disposal to win probably shouldn't be playing in a competitive setting.

I am generally against meta play, however I don't consider this list meta. I was lucky that I happen to be making nearly this exact list on the way back from a tournament where I was stomped by Palp defenders when the clarification happened in November. I think that everyone plays this game for different reasons, and mine is to have fun and fly scum ships. I just happened upon a combo that is also good at blowing up other competitive lists.

In short, I may be an ass for playing this combo, but to win in the current meta with the ships that I play with exclusively (bossk), I have to run this combo to have fun, win, and fly scum ships

Loop holes in card text

Playing lists even though you know it's not how it was designed

Timing chart shenanigans

Shoot at the ship you don't want to hit???

What is happening to this game and the people who play it

Apparently X-wing is like anything else. You say your glass is unbreakable? Someone do whatever they can to try and break it.

Some like to figure out how to exploit the rules to the greatest advantage

Piloting skill is slowly dying off because laziness breeds the desire to just figure out unbeatable list. For instance, Why do so many complain about the x7's? Because they require being out maneuvered by a better pilot. They r by no means unstoppable. Just a challenge

Can we acknowledge that people play games for different reasons? Some want to test their skills tactically, others want to build new and interesting lists, some just want to hang out. Just because you like to play a certain way doesn't make you a "****" unless you're being insulting or cheating. If this list is legal, there's nothing about that breaks any "spirit of the game" or ruins X-Wing.

EDIT: spelling

I agree people like to play the game in different ways but

" Roll to attack the hardest to hit target, so you can miss, then use Dengar to re roll hits to get a blank"

If you can't see that breaks the spirit of the way X wing should play, then we shall just agree to disagree, just hope I don't run into any of these " interesting lists" at the Yavin open.

...Like someone who thinks Palpatine is OP but still plays Palpatine+aces.

Wouldn't you be a hypocrite if you thought Palp Aces was too strong and didn't play it. Who says, "That's too good. I better not play it."?

A very large number of people across a very large number of games. A lot of people refuse to use things they believe grant them an advantage they see as unfair.

" Roll to attack the hardest to hit target, so you can miss, then use Dengar to re roll hits to get a blank"

If you can't see that breaks the spirit of the way X wing should play, then we shall just agree to disagree, just hope I don't run into any of these " interesting lists" at the Yavin open.

You'll run into a lot of them at any competitive event.

I'm still not seeing how this "breaks the the spirit of the game" though. You'll have to explain what you mean. If you can't then what you actually mean is you personally dislike it.

Why doesn't the attack prevention trigger at the end of either Gunner effect (you may not perform another attack this round) kill the other attack? Both trigger simultaneously, you choose the order to resolve one, fully resolving one prevents you from then resolving the other. In every other instance where an effect allowing you to make an attack and a "you may not attack again this round" effect come into conflict the prohibition wins out.

But what we're talking about here are tournaments. You can play any way you like casually. You can even create your own personal banned list casually. This list isn't oppressive but there are already cries about it being broken and out of touch with the spirit of the game, whatever that is.

Regarding your last question, both IG-88B and Gunner are triggered by the first missed shot. You just stack the order you resolve them in.

Regarding your last question, both IG-88B and Gunner are triggered by the first missed shot. You just stack the order you resolve them in.

I don't see why that makes a difference. Resolving either prevents you from attacking again. You can't simultaneously resolve effects: if events trigger simultaneously you choose an order to resolve them in. Whichever order you choose, the third attack gets cancelled by the resolution of the second.

EDIT: Turns out IG-88B doesn't have a "you cannot attack again this round" clause. So you can do it provided you resolve IG-88B first. If you resolve Gunner first, you can't make the IG-88B attack.