Can't we all just agree that Star Trek is best on television? Here is to hoping that Discovery is good, despite the fact it is being done through a stupid system, that being that it will only be on the CBS streaming app.

I'm a fan of the TNG/DS9 and to an extent Voyager, so I'd like to see the series moving into a post TNG era rather than focusing on TOS era or leading up to it, which Discovery will be doing.

I was really looking forward to seeing Star Trek Beyond because I had heard that it felt more like the old pre-reboot Star Trek. But it ended up being another hot mess of exploding ships and non-stop action that would make Michael Bay jealous. I stopped caring about how the movie would end when the Beastie Boys music started playing and I realized the rest of the move was going to be 20 minutes of mindless special effects porn.

Can't we all just agree that Star Trek is best on television? Here is to hoping that Discovery is good, despite the fact it is being done through a stupid system, that being that it will only be on the CBS streaming app.

I'm a fan of the TNG/DS9 and to an extent Voyager, so I'd like to see the series moving into a post TNG era rather than focusing on TOS era or leading up to it, which Discovery will be doing.

Oh there's no doubt it's better on the telly with the exception of voyager which suffered from the writers not agreeing on janways character she goes from paladin to psycho too often.

Then they overdid the Borg.

I'm not optimistic about the new show that ship design is all kinds of wrong.

Can't we all just agree that Star Trek is best on television? Here is to hoping that Discovery is good, despite the fact it is being done through a stupid system, that being that it will only be on the CBS streaming app.

I'm a fan of the TNG/DS9 and to an extent Voyager, so I'd like to see the series moving into a post TNG era rather than focusing on TOS era or leading up to it, which Discovery will be doing.

Oh there's no doubt it's better on the telly with the exception of voyager which suffered from the writers not agreeing on janways character she goes from paladin to psycho too often.

Then they overdid the Borg.

I'm not optimistic about the new show that ship design is all kinds of wrong.

I kinda liked Janeway beeing a bit fickle like that. I always figured it was stress related and she ended up with some sort of manic deression disorder, due to being the one in charge of a whole ship full of people so far away from home.

How do you feel about species 8472? "Hey you know these OP borg fella's everybody's afraid of? Well these things are worse!"

I enjoyed Voyager for what it was, but it definitely did have problems. Still leaps and bounds better then Enterprise. I'm cautiously optimistic about the new tv series, though I think they already blew it making it a pre-TOS series rather then a post-Nemesis series.

EDIT: one of the reasons I'm optimistic is because Nicholas Meyer, director of Wrath of Khan, The Undiscovered Country, and (uncredited) co-writer of The Voyage Home, is working on the series. I think I also saw Joe Menosky in there somewhere (he wrote a ton of great episodes like Darmok, Conundrum, Future's End, and Blink of an Eye just to name a few)

Enterprise got so much better during its final season. About half the episodes of that last season were actually good.

Most of the series got better as time went on. Actually to be honest, season 3-4 is generally the area where the shows actually got really enjoyable. Season 1 and 2 of TNG and DS9 aren't that stellar. Enterprise still was always doomed to fail.

Enterprise got so much better during its final season. About half the episodes of that last season were actually good.

This is very true but by that point the audience had all left for greener pastures.

Prequels are generally a bad idea even more so in a universe as fleshed out as star trek, it should of gone off and done it's own thing a lot sooner.

Well i would have really liked to see the Federation - Romulan war.

Enterprise got so much better during its final season. About half the episodes of that last season were actually good.

This is very true but by that point the audience had all left for greener pastures.

Exactly. If they had started with the stuff they did in season 4, then the show probably would have gone the full 7 seasons and might have compete with DS9 as the best Star Trek.

Instead we got 2 medium-bad seasons of them trying to ignore the established universe and then a season of unwatchable dreck before the new head writer said "hey, why don't we show the formation of the federation", and by then it was far, far too late.

With Enterprise I have trouble enough getting past the music...

I actually like the theme song for enterprise. I think it nicely captures the themes of "old fashioned, simpler time" and "exploration" that they were going for with the show.

It's a lot better than the droning monotones used by ds9 and voyager.

They weaponised the beasty boys. Sigh. I wonder if it works with all their songs? Would "body movin'" work just as well? Would using justin bieber be considered a violation of the prime directive? I still think they should have used metal.

This. This is where I call it quits with the new star trek. Srsly? Ok It's kinda cool. If you are twelve!, no wait... If you were twelve, in the 90s!

You know I can see this working in an episode of Farscape but for star trek, No. Just NO.

Pfahahahah boy am I glad I decided not to waste money seeing this film.

(I will hear nothign said against Farscape though )

farscape is an excellent show that got its run cut short for no good reason, at least we got a satisfying end with peacekeeper wars.

They weaponised the beasty boys. Sigh. I wonder if it works with all their songs? Would "body movin'" work just as well? Would using justin bieber be considered a violation of the prime directive? I still think they should have used metal.

This. This is where I call it quits with the new star trek. Srsly? Ok It's kinda cool. If you are twelve!, no wait... If you were twelve, in the 90s!

You know I can see this working in an episode of Farscape but for star trek, No. Just NO.

Pfahahahah boy am I glad I decided not to waste money seeing this film.

(I will hear nothign said against Farscape though )

Hey I like Farscape! Especially the later stuff when John got Scorpius stuck in his head.

Abrams didn't direct Beyond...

Man I dont understand the hate. I dont want it explained. I only posted to say i'm a lifelong Trekkie, I grew up on the Original Series and Next Gen,and I really enjoyed Beyond.

Nemesis is also underated. However Insurrection, Generations, and Final Frontier are objectively abysmal for different reasons. Insurrection is at least pretty okay when you imagine it as a large budger tv episode.

Nemesis is also underated. However Insurrection, Generations, ... are objectively abysmal for different reasons

Non-sequtor, your facts are uncoordinated.

Nemesis was horrific. Easily as bad as final frontier.

Your right though, issurection wasn't really a movie, just a double length episode of middling quality.

farscape is an excellent show that got its run cut short for no good reason, at least we got a satisfying end with peacekeeper wars.

Farscape is a very weird show. I had to watch all 4 seasons through completely, twice, before I could even decide whether or not I liked the show, but it kept my attention well enough for me to watch it twice.

Finally decided that I did, in fact, like it. It's a good show, but in a very odd way. Probably something to do with the Australian production.

It does have one of my favorite character arcs ever though.

Nemesis is also underated. However Insurrection, Generations, ... are objectively abysmal for different reasons

Non-sequtor, your facts are uncoordinated.

Nemesis was horrific. Easily as bad as final frontier.

Your right though, issurection wasn't really a movie, just a double length episode of middling quality.

Nemesis wasn't as bad as FF. Nemesis was horribly directed, and has many many flaws (I could go on and on), but it doesn't have a fundamentally broken plot like FF. Nemesis could've had better writing, better directing, better character development etc. but the basic plot is a workable plot unlike FF. In fact, I think one of the reasons Nemesis is so bad is not because of how bad the actual movie is, but because it could've been so much better.

Picard's younger, romulan twin brother clone uses "Remans" to take over the romulan empire.

Hmmmm.... nope, that's about as fundamentally broken as you can get. Add in data's retarded older brother, simply ignoring the prime directive, and a bunch of other bad story elements on top of the bad acting, bad direction, bad character development and everything else and you pretty much have a movie that makes sharknado look like oscar material.

Actually, I do have 2 good things to say about nemesis. If I remember correctly, the new romulan ship design in it was pretty cool, and the romulan logo they created for the movie was awesome. So I guess, amid all the crap, it's design department deserves some props.

I didn't like beyond. Really liked Into Darkness though.

Into Darkness on the other hand. LOVED IT. Cumberbatch did a fantastic job as Khan (hope he showes up again). And the whole switch from the origional at the end was quite a neat idea.

Only thing i can't stand in the movies is Uhura. Actress can't act at all.

Can't we all just agree that Star Trek is best on television? Here is to hoping that Discovery is good, despite the fact it is being done through a stupid system, that being that it will only be on the CBS streaming app.

I'm a fan of the TNG/DS9 and to an extent Voyager, so I'd like to see the series moving into a post TNG era rather than focusing on TOS era or leading up to it, which Discovery will be doing.

I'd actually disagree with that. Before the TNG movies started the slow descent towards the JJ drek, some of the original movies (ye olde even filmes) outshone the best episodes of the TV series. What fan didn't get floored when Spock died in TWOK? Shatner actually gave one of his best performances in that I believe. TVH threw out practically all sci-fi, rolled the dice on whales and character interaction, and came up box cars. TUC tied the whole TOS movie line up in a pretty bow with our crew going into the sunset (well, sun. It was in space). I think that Star Trek is best when it has a message to share. While that message has to be delivered properly (looking at you Picard sermons and space hippies), the greatest episodes and movies were the ones that told us something about ourselves while telling its own story.

Abrams didn't direct Beyond...

Man I dont understand the hate. I dont want it explained. I only posted to say i'm a lifelong Trekkie, I grew up on the Original Series and Next Gen,and I really enjoyed Beyond.

Nemesis is also underated. However Insurrection, Generations, and Final Frontier are objectively abysmal for different reasons. Insurrection is at least pretty okay when you imagine it as a large budger tv episode.

I'm guessing that I'll have to make some edits for the folks that don't bother to read past the first post... Needless to say, if you don't understand something yet don't want it explained to you, then your objectivity takes the appearance of bias because you have no desire to even consider other points of thought.

Picard's younger, romulan twin brother clone uses "Remans" to take over the romulan empire.

Hmmmm.... nope, that's about as fundamentally broken as you can get. Add in data's retarded older brother, simply ignoring the prime directive, and a bunch of other bad story elements on top of the bad acting, bad direction, bad character development and everything else and you pretty much have a movie that makes sharknado look like oscar material.

Actually, I do have 2 good things to say about nemesis. If I remember correctly, the new romulan ship design in it was pretty cool, and the romulan logo they created for the movie was awesome. So I guess, amid all the crap, it's design department deserves some props.

There were a couple major disappointments for me in Nemesis. It seemed like it was a precursor to the JJ style of Star Trek films. Oh, what's this? A ship that can fire while cloaked? What's this? The brains of the operation sacrifices himself after transferring his 'soul' into another entity? What's this? A fight between the two adversaries inside a nebula? It's like they took the major plot points of II and VI and used a sledgehammer to smash them together. In fact, Nemesis fell into the plot pit that TWOK actually saw and tried to avoid. The makers saw that just having the ships circle around throwing broadsides into one another would be boring after 1 minute. Thus the Mutara nebula to add an additional layer of suspense to things. Making one of the ships invisible isn't a viable alternative especially when it likely could solo the Enterprise without the cloak. If the ship were a glass cannon ala Balance of Terror, maybe it would have been a bit more interesting.

Nemesis just failed the message test that I mentioned above. What was the overarching story? That Picard could be evil if he were raised by space vampires? Without that theme tying the movie together, Nemesis was just a string of action scenes happening for... reasons.

The second thing that stuck in my craw was that this could have been the first movie to actually focus on the Romulans. Even with DS9 and TNG, there was still a huge amount of mystery to them when compared to the Klingons or even the Borg. Why not flesh out one of the major races in the series who are all about subtle plots and have an axe to grind with earth? Why not bring back Denise Crosby as the main villain? But nope, we'll slap together the Jem'Hadar with Nosferatu and throw in Anakin Skywalker without the Force.

Just realized that Abram's first movie involved an angsty Romulan-based villain who really didn't act Romulan with a nigh-unstoppable ship that they intend to use to destroy the earth with for... reasons that didn't add up. HATRED INTENSIFIES!

Abrams is the result of what happens when you let Hollywood and Disney run rampant and bend a franchise over with no lube.

Rey and Jyn are what happens when you put a raging femenist in charge who has no originality or respect for creative integrity.

Rey and Jyn are what happens when you put a raging femenist in charge who has no originality or respect for creative integrity.

Against my better judgement, I'll bite.

What about Rey and Jyn;

-Compromises artistic integrity?

-Demonstrates a lack of originality?

And

-How does the above tie-in to 'raging feminism'?

(Side note; proud that my phone autocorrected tie-in to TIE/In)

I think that most of the issues with Rey go back some of the major flaws of TFA. Pretty much the movie has to bend itself to get her through the plot rather than have her bend like we do in real life.

Oh, we're stuck in a settlement that's being strafed by a TIE Fighter. What do? Well there's a freighter, it's either that or get gunned down right?

BY THE POWER OF JJ YOU CAN NOW FLY AT HIGH SPEED THROUGH THE SUPERSTRUCTURE OF A DREADNOUGHT (horribly inaccurate term for a large capital ship BTW).

Well we made it into space, better take some time to fix the ship. Oh hey Han! Good thing you were traveling through this particular area of this particular system of this particular part of the galaxy at this particular time.

I can has Force powers? I know Kung-Fu! Somewhere Yoda's ghost wonders why he had to train students for decades when the Force is mastered via osmosis whenever a deus ex machina is required.

This just points towards JJ's inability to develop deep characters. The movie was created in such a way that Rey had to get from A to B with no help from anybody more qualified from her. That necessitated sudden spurts of talent coming from nowhere. Luke had Han to ferry him from system to system. He had Red Squadron to clear his tail. He had 2 Jedi masters to lead him through his training. By initially relying on others then using these skills we see his progression from novice to... well... master.

In many ways, JJ's Kirk falls into the same character trap as Rey. But in Kirk's case, the movie bends to him by pretty much making everybody else fail when opposing him. Dozens might be dying every minute due to his choices, but he typed in the cheat codes and can therefore blunder and bravado his way through any situation. This leads to a total lack of difficulty in his tasks which therefore makes any growth seem artificial.

Jyn is a bit more difficult to pin down. She does have failings and she does have failures. She does rely on other characters. I'd say if anything she fails to realistically bond with the rest of the crew. Yes she speaks with them, but it's more along the lines of how you would speak to a coworker who isn't a close friend. It could be that the cast was too broad to the point that development was diluted in all of them.

The OT pretty much had all focus on the three human characters. Chewie was a walking dog and the droids were comic relief with the odd bit of spotlight focus. But that focus was only for the purpose of either developing one of the human characters or being a solution to the present problem. At no point do Leia, Luke, or Han actually sit down and ask the droids how they're doing. Even Old Ben is merely an entryway into Luke's connection with the Force and serves as an education point for the audience on what it is and what it can do before he is cast off the mortal coil.

Rogue One has two main characters, but all the others have significant roles in carrying out the plot. The spotlight shines on them long enough for you to lose focus on the main duo and when it jumps back to them you have difficulty reconnecting. Still, they did a better job with Jyn than JJ did with Kirk and Rey.