How does the Blast quality of a flak cannon interact with the Blanket Barrage action? It seems like a Blanket Barrage is exactly what a flak cannon is meant for, but as far as I can tell according to the RAW a flak cannon is no better at laying down an anti-starfighter screen than a heavy turbolaser. You do make a Gunnery check, but that's just to determine how if/how much you increase the difficulty of the opposing Piloting check.

And yes, I do recognize that, fired individually, a flak cannon is more useful against a starfighter (or group of starfighters) than a turbolaser. But what's the point of putting a whole battery of them on, say, the Munificent -class (from Lead by Example)?

One thought: since you are actually making a Gunnery check, would it be kosher (or if not legal according to the RAW, at least reasonable) to spend two advantage from the Gunnery check to target a starfighter with the Blast effect? For example, if you succeed at the Gunnery check with 2 Advantage, could you upgrade the check of the starfighters, and target a starfighter with the Blast instead of using it to upgrade the check again?

Blast does not interact with Blanket barrage. So likely the intent in something like the Munificent is the light laser cannons are used to do things like blanket barrage with the Flak cannons actually shooting at enemy starfighters with the intent to inflict wounds and crits.

Remember, the Blast quality is limited to Engaged range (personal scale) or with vehicle weapons Short range (again, still personal scale) so you can't activate blast to hit multiple starfighters, they just don't fly close enough together. However there are two points to remember. 1) Blast can still allow you to use 3 advantage to "hit on a miss" and 2) According to EotE core, flak cannons on Sil 5 and up count the firing ship as being 1 Sil smaller than it is when firing at Sil 4 and smaller targets.

So the Flak cannon has it's uses...

Fair enough. I'd considered that--that the flak cannons were intended to be aimed individually rather than fired as a battery--but it just seemed a little contrary to how they're typically used (the flavor of Blanket Barrage is pretty much exactly what you'd use something like that for), and it seemed unnecessary to have eight of them.

Just about every weapon looses effectiveness when not fired individually. It's part of the abstraction. Not a good part IMO.

I'm OK with the fact that barrages are generally mechanically inferior to individual fire. As a GM I wouldn't bother having each fire individually; that's ridiculous. But the flak cannon is actually more useful as an aimed weapon than the laser. To use the Munificent as an example, it would be more productive to have the lasers lay down a flak barrage and have the flak cannons aimed individually at starfighters (since they can activate Blast and have VIcious) than the other way around.

Dunno. Unless it was only a starfighter or two (in which case aimed fire from a single cannon is probably preferable to a barrage, even if the rest of the guns stay silent), spending Advantage to activate Blast probably doesn't make much sense anyway. Might make more sense to give them an automatic Advantage or two for the Blanket Barrage.

Looking at the Munificent again, it's interesting--the lasers have Close range, but the flak cannons have Short range. That's certainly an advantage--a barrage laid down by the flak cannons will start to endanger starfighters at longer range than the lasers--but it seems a little counterintuitive to me. Ah well.

It's really too bad that flak cannons can't be used to add extra defense (setbacks or difficulty upgrades) to ordnance weapons. Spraying flak in the path of torpedoes seems like a good use of those weapons.

Blast does not interact with Blanket barrage. So likely the intent in something like the Munificent is the light laser cannons are used to do things like blanket barrage with the Flak cannons actually shooting at enemy starfighters with the intent to inflict wounds and crits.

Remember, the Blast quality is limited to Engaged range (personal scale) or with vehicle weapons Short range (again, still personal scale) so you can't activate blast to hit multiple starfighters, they just don't fly close enough together. However there are two points to remember. 1) Blast can still allow you to use 3 advantage to "hit on a miss" and 2) According to EotE core, flak cannons on Sil 5 and up count the firing ship as being 1 Sil smaller than it is when firing at Sil 4 and smaller targets.

So the Flak cannon has it's uses...

Should squadrons not be engaged with each other?

Blast does not interact with Blanket barrage. So likely the intent in something like the Munificent is the light laser cannons are used to do things like blanket barrage with the Flak cannons actually shooting at enemy starfighters with the intent to inflict wounds and crits.

Remember, the Blast quality is limited to Engaged range (personal scale) or with vehicle weapons Short range (again, still personal scale) so you can't activate blast to hit multiple starfighters, they just don't fly close enough together. However there are two points to remember. 1) Blast can still allow you to use 3 advantage to "hit on a miss" and 2) According to EotE core, flak cannons on Sil 5 and up count the firing ship as being 1 Sil smaller than it is when firing at Sil 4 and smaller targets.

So the Flak cannon has it's uses...

Should squadrons not be engaged with each other?

Within Close range of each other yes, but not Engaged. Engaged is very close together (typically only a few meters apart) and flying craft should try to avoid getting that close during combat and most normal flight operations.

That's one of those things that doesn't translate well between personal and Vehicle. The closest you can get in Vehicle scale encounters is "Close" and Close Vehicle is slightly larger than extreme personal.

So if you have a blast weapon that can hit multiple vehicles with blast, that's a blast that can also hit everything in extreme personal range. Which is kinda big....

No, I assume that the point of Blast on starship weapons is to allow such a weapon to do damage even on a near-miss.

Just about every weapon looses effectiveness when not fired individually. It's part of the abstraction. Not a good part IMO.

I don't know, if you roll every gun individually it's way too easy for a star destroyer to take down fighters with it's main battery simply by rolling so many checks that sooner or later one hits. That kind of goes against how the movies show the relationship between ship killing armaments and fighters.

Scenes like the Leia's corvette or the Millennium Falcon running from a firing Star Destroyer for a significant amount of time would become kind of impossible, because the raw amount of damage those guns can inflict when fired individually would obliterate those smaller ships in a single round easily.

Blast does not interact with Blanket barrage. So likely the intent in something like the Munificent is the light laser cannons are used to do things like blanket barrage with the Flak cannons actually shooting at enemy starfighters with the intent to inflict wounds and crits.

Remember, the Blast quality is limited to Engaged range (personal scale) or with vehicle weapons Short range (again, still personal scale) so you can't activate blast to hit multiple starfighters, they just don't fly close enough together. However there are two points to remember. 1) Blast can still allow you to use 3 advantage to "hit on a miss" and 2) According to EotE core, flak cannons on Sil 5 and up count the firing ship as being 1 Sil smaller than it is when firing at Sil 4 and smaller targets.

So the Flak cannon has it's uses...

Should squadrons not be engaged with each other?

Within Close range of each other yes, but not Engaged. Engaged is very close together (typically only a few meters apart) and flying craft should try to avoid getting that close during combat and most normal flight operations.

You're sure? Can't find my book, but I would have bet money on engaged for both, squads and squadrons.

No, I assume that the point of Blast on starship weapons is to allow such a weapon to do damage even on a near-miss.

Just about every weapon looses effectiveness when not fired individually. It's part of the abstraction. Not a good part IMO.

I don't know, if you roll every gun individually it's way too easy for a star destroyer to take down fighters with it's main battery simply by rolling so many checks that sooner or later one hits. That kind of goes against how the movies show the relationship between ship killing armaments and fighters.

Scenes like the Leia's corvette or the Millennium Falcon running from a firing Star Destroyer for a significant amount of time would become kind of impossible, because the raw amount of damage those guns can inflict when fired individually would obliterate those smaller ships in a single round easily.

Just about every weapon looses effectiveness when not fired individually. It's part of the abstraction. Not a good part IMO.

I don't know, if you roll every gun individually it's way too easy for a star destroyer to take down fighters with it's main battery simply by rolling so many checks that sooner or later one hits. That kind of goes against how the movies show the relationship between ship killing armaments and fighters.

Scenes like the Leia's corvette or the Millennium Falcon running from a firing Star Destroyer for a significant amount of time would become kind of impossible, because the raw amount of damage those guns can inflict when fired individually would obliterate those smaller ships in a single round easily.

Some of us like our impressive warships to actually be capable of defending themselves. Of course, if it's using its main battery against fighters, what does it have left to deal with enemy warships?

Usually you end up with a dozen despair per turn if your impressive warships start to fire with their impressive main guns against even semi competent starfighter pilots. And about 30 or so if you fire at starfighter aces ;-)

The rules recommend to group the cannons for another reason, they assume that each turbolaser has just one gunner minion and not a whole group to bring up the guns to 5 dice, without a decent dice pool a sil 8 ship stand no chance to hit fighters anyway. Trench disease works ok in this system as well.

Adding < 1% to the sticker price of that ISD gives a fully modified Advanced Targeting Array and a fully modified Gunner Droid Brain and targeting goggles on every weapon. So they do that. Now a human minion with Agility 2 using a True Aim maneuver starts at 4P1A1B vs the difficulty (based on target Silhouette +1).

Adding < 1% to the sticker price of that ISD gives a fully modified Advanced Targeting Array and a fully modified Gunner Droid Brain and targeting goggles on every weapon. So they do that. Now a human minion with Agility 2 using a True Aim maneuver starts at 4P1A1B vs the difficulty (based on target Silhouette +1).

That looks not like according to regulation, but it looks like a good idea for special imperial units who can ignore regulations. Especially as the ISDs have two hardpoints avaible for customisation.

Like that guy for example:

BTW, have they ever cleared up if you assist the droid brain or the droid brain assists you? Either way, I am not sure if the droid gunner brain can assist ~72 minions per turn. But hey, I ain't complaining when it does twice per turn for our VCX-100, so who am I to complain about that.

You buy a separate droid brain for each weapon. They are a 0 HP option.

You buy a separate droid brain for each weapon. They are a 0 HP option.

That sounds rather dangerous, considering how unstable those gunner brains are.

Some of us like our impressive warships to actually be capable of defending themselves. Of course, if it's using its main battery against fighters, what does it have left to deal with enemy warships?

Of course they should be dangerous, but having an enemy that can obliterate any spaceship the players will ever use in a single turn from 1000km away, before even being in the player's sensor range is a tad ridiculous.

I mean, every single time you're running an imperial blockade it would look like this:

GM: "Roll initative, vigilance"

Player: "Against what?"

GM: "What's your ship's sensor range?"

Player: "Medium"

GM: "You don't know"

Player: "Uh, ok..."

GM: *rolls 40 attacks* "Take 12 damage, take 13 damage, take 11 damage, take 15 damage, take 11 damage, take 14 damage, take 12 damage, take 11 damage."

Player: "We were dead at 15"

GM: "Roll to get to the escape pods!"

Whisperthrust Engine

Nightshadow Coating

Pseudo-Cloaking Device

Player: Ok, but first roll a formidable computer check, passive sensors a reduce by one range band and thus would only detect us at medium. active sensors increase difficulty by 4. If you get that successful our passive sensors can still pick up the active sensor signal. Evasive maneuvers, Evasive Maneuvers! Shields to aft, take course away from the Star Destroyer, best speed, and most importantly out of long-range.

You can not now roll your 40 30 attacks against RRRPPSSSSSS … at least IF my pilot check will not yield one net success more than the helmsmen of this stardestroyer manages to get, because I am certainly trying to get out of the long-range weapon range of that monster. Oh and I into the direction of that asteroid belt. If they chase me into it, all despair are spend to cause critical hits against the star destroyer ... roll please 30 times.

GM: Never mind, the Imperial Star Destroyer retreats after several asteroid hits have damaged its superstructure heavily. The imperial ships starts to spit out dozens over dozens TIE-Fighters, they set course onto your position with maximum speed …

I would say there are tools to get around such problems. but they require preparation.

Preparation and a lot of rare (not that it really matters in this system) and Restricted (not that it really matters either in this system) attachments. Of course, if players are using them, so too are NPCs (sorry IMO, simulation > narrative).

Preparation and a lot of rare (not that it really matters in this system) and Restricted (not that it really matters either in this system) attachments. Of course, if players are using them, so too are NPCs (sorry IMO, simulation > narrative).

Imperial military equipment is rather limited in their hardpoints, And you already wanted to use one of those hardpoints to help the gunners of imperial capital ships. ;-)

But most definitely are some of those mods really, really fine additions to bounty hunter ships. "WE GOT HIT BY WHOM?!?", helps not only with the narrative, but actually fits the simulation as well. Star destroyers are no patrol vessels, though I think the current imperial scout and patrol vessels are somewhat lacking. Long-Range Sensors are surprisingly rare.

Preparation and a lot of rare (not that it really matters in this system) and Restricted (not that it really matters either in this system) attachments. Of course, if players are using them, so too are NPCs (sorry IMO, simulation > narrative).

Imperial military equipment is rather limited in their hardpoints, And you already wanted to use one of those hardpoints to help the gunners of imperial capital ships. ;-)

But most definitely are some of those mods really, really fine additions to bounty hunter ships. "WE GOT HIT BY WHOM?!?", helps not only with the narrative, but actually fits the simulation as well. Star destroyers are no patrol vessels, though I think the current imperial scout and patrol vessels are somewhat lacking. Long-Range Sensors are surprisingly rare.

Oh yes. For the money, every Imperial capital ship with 1+ hard point should have an Advanced Targeting Array modified all the way as it's only 19,000 credits and will dramatically increase the effectiveness of the vessel.

Blast does not interact with Blanket barrage. So likely the intent in something like the Munificent is the light laser cannons are used to do things like blanket barrage with the Flak cannons actually shooting at enemy starfighters with the intent to inflict wounds and crits.

Remember, the Blast quality is limited to Engaged range (personal scale) or with vehicle weapons Short range (again, still personal scale) so you can't activate blast to hit multiple starfighters, they just don't fly close enough together. However there are two points to remember. 1) Blast can still allow you to use 3 advantage to "hit on a miss" and 2) According to EotE core, flak cannons on Sil 5 and up count the firing ship as being 1 Sil smaller than it is when firing at Sil 4 and smaller targets.

So the Flak cannon has it's uses...

Should squadrons not be engaged with each other?

Within Close range of each other yes, but not Engaged. Engaged is very close together (typically only a few meters apart) and flying craft should try to avoid getting that close during combat and most normal flight operations.

You're sure? Can't find my book, but I would have bet money on engaged for both, squads and squadrons.

Well how about that...

Ok, so there in indeed an artifact. Squads and Squadrons does indeed only mention forming up with minions already Engaged with you, and makes no distinction between vehicles and ground troops.

Which causes issue since technically you can't engage at planetary scale, so either they meant Close, or you become Engaged when you form up, or Vehicles can't actually form up because they can't get engaged (which I think is pretty unlikely).

Blast does not interact with Blanket barrage. So likely the intent in something like the Munificent is the light laser cannons are used to do things like blanket barrage with the Flak cannons actually shooting at enemy starfighters with the intent to inflict wounds and crits.

Remember, the Blast quality is limited to Engaged range (personal scale) or with vehicle weapons Short range (again, still personal scale) so you can't activate blast to hit multiple starfighters, they just don't fly close enough together. However there are two points to remember. 1) Blast can still allow you to use 3 advantage to "hit on a miss" and 2) According to EotE core, flak cannons on Sil 5 and up count the firing ship as being 1 Sil smaller than it is when firing at Sil 4 and smaller targets.

So the Flak cannon has it's uses...

Should squadrons not be engaged with each other?

Within Close range of each other yes, but not Engaged. Engaged is very close together (typically only a few meters apart) and flying craft should try to avoid getting that close during combat and most normal flight operations.

You're sure? Can't find my book, but I would have bet money on engaged for both, squads and squadrons.

Well how about that...

Ok, so there in indeed an artifact. Squads and Squadrons does indeed only mention forming up with minions already Engaged with you, and makes no distinction between vehicles and ground troops.

Which causes issue since technically you can't engage at planetary scale, so either they meant Close, or you become Engaged when you form up, or Vehicles can't actually form up because they can't get engaged (which I think is pretty unlikely).

Well, flying in formation is a lot closer than just close as close is already knife fight distance with turn-fights and all the other interesting dogfighting things. Oh and btw, planetary scale blast is short range in personal scale.

Thinking about it, actually it would be fitting to have GtA pairs as well engaged with each other. Docked ships naturally as well, etc Close encompass afterall all personal range bands as well, and engaged is a rather fuzzy range.