Hey guys,

So i just finished reading the Bane trilogy and also been playing Tyranny, and with a background talk with Sirin the Archon of Song, she told me how she convinced her teacher there was something amazing just beyond the window and he dropped to his death. She explains her power as what seems like Illusions.

This made me think whether a Jedi can use his Misdirect power to simulate some item qualities once he bought the Illusion Control upgrade as then you are mostly limited by imagination.

It's important to have the Illusion control upgrade and probably the duration commitment upgrade for some of those i will list but without the Illusion control, you can only make something disappear or change it's properties (and you also do not add skill dice so you can't use advantages) which i think is not enough as i don't have a ready explanations to how changing property will create said effects.

What i am talking about it using the Misdirect to Disarm your opponent for example, or maybe Knocking him Down, or even make the targets weapons more cumbersome or unwieldy thus gaining you upgrades when they are trying to hit you.

Because it's an Illusion this can be explained by his mind making him do this things (similar to Fight Club where he was hitting himself really hard). Because he believes something is causing it, his body reacts in a way to what should happen even though it's not real (think of how you feel you are falling when day dreaming and your body suddenly jerks).

For a Disarm for example, you can explain that a tendril is grabbing his weapon and pulling on it, making his mind activate a jerk motion and drop his weapon. Or maybe that same tendril is grabbing his foot and so he falls down because that is what would have happened if it was real so his "mind complies".

I will list the item qualities i think it might be able to reproduce:

Cumbersome - you make his weapon seem heavier or bigger than normal.

Unwieldy - the weapon is more rubbery and he is having trouble to aim straight, like a snake coiling.

Defensive - very similar to the basic power, and maybe can be gained simply through this but can also be explained by extra targets the mirror image.

Deflection - the same principle as Defensive.

Disorient - similar to a fear check or dancing lights or even simply to make him feel drunk.

Ensnare - tendrils grab his arms and legs denying him of motion.

Knockdown - like the example above.

Disarm - like the example above.

Concussive - i am not sure if to include this as it might be too strong at that point already, and except for maybe the Mastery upgrade one Illusion should not be able to make you day dream (if that's what you made him think).

What do you think?

1 - should you be able to reproduce those or some of those qualities with a Misdirect Illusion and maybe even Influence Control where you add Discipline ?

2 - If so, would you price it the same way (2 adv for activation?), what happens when you try to affect a number of targets (do you use Auto-Fire rules)?

I wouldn't make these like an embedded houserule, but they all sound like fantastically creative ideas on a player's part, and I would have no problem rewarding them with mechanical effects like you suggest, depending on their description of the situation. A combined skill check isn't always going to be necessary (unless you're targeting a high-level opponent)—just properly activate the power and tell me what the illusion is!

she told me how she convinced her teacher there was something amazing just beyond the window and he dropped to his death. She explains her power as what seems like Illusions.

Sounds like a mix of Influence and Misdirect to me.

I'd be very leery of allowing Misdirect with the "illusions" Control upgrade be able to directly mimic the mechanical effects of a weapon quality.

Instead, I'd suggest adding a setback dice to the target's checks as they are "affected" by the illusion, and simply alter the description of how the target acts based upon how the illusion manifests.

FFG's generally done a pretty good job of balancing Force powers (Move's about the only exception, and that's more a case of looking far more potent than it really is), and allowing a PC to ape so many different weapon qualities without needing the weapon itself begins to screw with the balance.

Mind over Matter people have been known to die from fright. Making an illusion of a weapon it would work pretty much like the weapon. When you try and make it work like something else then the illusion might come apart.

I understand what you mean Donovan because balance is really important here, i am just trying to figure out more uses to this power as it's really costly XP wise and pips wise to gain anything and it's attack only gains you 1 strain per pip (so for the regular jedi character with 2-3 FR it's really not much, let alone that it's blocked by soak probably). This power seems to me very much like Heal/Harm where the cost is so high and the rewards at times so little.

How many times can you hide from people, it's just not interesting.

I just thought of another use for this power after reading an Influence topic. Where Influence needs to be said aloud, one can use Misdirect to communicate telepathically with others (creating sounds without image).

Or make his weapon disappear in his hand, he'll drop it by himself

Decorus, it might work like the weapon but i think you would still need to damage him according to the rules of the Illusion Control upgrade, even if you create a giant Bazooka to attack him with. He would still only gain 1 strain per pip if at least 1 pip was black so about (3-6) strain on average against soak

Mind over Matter people have been known to die from fright. Making an illusion of a weapon it would work pretty much like the weapon. When you try and make it work like something else then the illusion might come apart.

With those instances generally being people under extreme duress or having pre-existing physical conditions that make sudden shocks to the system very dangerous to their well-being.

I'd very leery of allowing Misdirect to have that kind of power, since there's already enough Force powers that can deal out hefty damage, such as Harm, Bind (if using dark side pips), and especially Unleash and Move.

I understand what you mean Donovan because balance is really important here, i am just trying to figure out more uses to this power as it's really costly XP wise and pips wise to gain anything and it's attack only gains you 1 strain per pip (so for the regular jedi character with 2-3 FR it's really not much, let alone that it's blocked by soak probably). This power seems to me very much like Heal/Harm where the cost is so high and the rewards at times so little.

How many times can you hide from people, it's just not interesting.

I just thought of another use for this power after reading an Influence topic. Where Influence needs to be said aloud, one can use Misdirect to communicate telepathically with others (creating sounds without image).

Or make his weapon disappear in his hand, he'll drop it by himself

Decorus, it might work like the weapon but i think you would still need to damage him according to the rules of the Illusion Control upgrade, even if you create a giant Bazooka to attack him with. He would still only gain 1 strain per pip if at least 1 pip was black so about (3-6) strain on average against soak

Also bear in mind that the majority of what your PCs will face in combats will be rivals and minions, who lacking a strain threshold will take that damage as wounds. Between that and setback dice, you don't need to add additional effects.

As I said above, setback dice are your friend in this instance, even if there's no opposed check involved to resist the power. If the player puts in a lot of effort for the description of the illusion created, then apply additional setback dice to the target as they are "affected" or "recover" from what just happened to them.