Ok another idea about scum.

Have them be a space-station oriented faction. Basically, something like the Deep Space 9 model (big bucks and points), with lots of squadrons and flotilla style ships.

Since I don't care much for competitive play I'd like to see a bunch of neutral ships/stations that will will help/enhance narrative and campaign play.

A set that includes a station and satellites/defensive buoys would be cool and much nicer than cardboard.

I'd also like to see some of the following

• Freighters/transports like we saw in the old X-Wing/TIE fighter games or in Rebels
• Some older gunships or other escort craft for the above
• Perhaps some older/smaller frigates/corvettes (CIS/Republic) that are used by system/sector security forces
• Since we know that the Empire also uses Nebulon Bs and CR90s maybe a pack of just ship cards/titles that allow some cross faction use of existing ships where applicable.

Right now we've got a few light freighters in the Rogues & Villains and Rebel Fighters II, but it would be nice to have more diversity.

All wings standing by has nailed it. Thematically a 3rd faction, call them what ever you want, could easily be in the game. If the next wave was a pack that gave scum a small ship plus the cardboard to convert a cr90 and nebulon b, a medium ship, a fighter pack, and a rogues pack then they would be caught almost completely caught up.

As far as how they should play I think they should definitely be more objective based. I think in a stand up fight against star destroyers they should have a hard time. I wouldn't mind if they had a focus on more small ships either. They should be the janky tricks faction. Maybe they have a ship the when it's destroyed it deals damage to other ships around so the scum player tries to dive it into the other players fleet while the other player tries to destroy it at long range or while it's closer to his own ships. Maybe they have ships that can deploy mines or rely on its rear arc? There are tons of possibilities and the design space is there. Plus you can use seperatist and empire at war ships for inspiration.

The idea of the 3rd faction as simply Special Interests is a way to broaden the number of potential ships. You can have your generic Scum and even had stuff like the Corellian Mining Corporation. Just add a new card type for the 3rd faction that gives some extra option that's favorable to a type of ship. Perhaps it simply allows for the addition of a ship type (i.e. CMC gets CR90s). Best example might be agenda cards in aGoT lcg.

I find myself more and more adverse to diluting the factional differences with cross-faction ships.

Even if that would entail a compromise 3rd faction.

I like things being very distinct in that platform.

If they did a pirate campaign, could we get rules for boarding and hijacking?

That could lead to some intense moments, and also explain why a criminal organization has a capital ship

I find myself more and more adverse to diluting the factional differences with cross-faction ships.

Even if that would entail a compromise 3rd faction.

I like things being very distinct in that platform.

I agree with this. I like how the Rebels and Imps play very different, instead of the boring mirror matches I hear about in X-Wing or what I experienced in MTG.

I find myself more and more adverse to diluting the factional differences with cross-faction ships.

Even if that would entail a compromise 3rd faction.

I like things being very distinct in that platform.

I agree with this. I like how the Rebels and Imps play very different, instead of the boring mirror matches I hear about in X-Wing or what I experienced in MTG.

Me too. That's why I essentially voiced my opinion to not have them do it. But if they DO, I want their dyanmics to be totally different. Like I said, a space station with max speed of 1 supported by craploads of squadrons (scum could break the 1/3 squadrons rule), flotillas, and no fleet commander, instead, for both the station and the flotillas, each ship has a "pirate boss" who acts as a mini fleet commander but only affects that ship (like a beefed up officer).

I really think that, even if you made a Fringe faction that only used existing (Rebel/Imperial) ship models, you could still make it feel very distinct as a faction.

My suggestion above of completely denying them Large ships would give a different overall feel, but on the individual battle level, giving them lots of ways to modify and play with the statlines could create a solidly themed dynamic (potentially even moreso than Rebels). Even something as simple as a type of "upgrade" that reduced ship cost (and came with some kind of reduction in ship power) would create an interesting dynamic.

I would really push the "rag-tag / scrounged-together" feel as the theme for any kind of cardboard-only Fringe faction, particularly if they use the same ships. Really drive home the feeling that these guys are not the extremely structured monolithic empire, and are not even the rag-tag scrappers of the rebellion, but are instead the little scraps that some backwater fringer warlord or crime syndicate has been able to pull together while the "big boys" have been struggling to control a galaxy.

Heck, you could even make them a bit more distinct by giving them their own set of objectives that make them feel more "piratey". Boarding actions, hijackings, ambushes. Maybe ones that make them feel like they're being engaged on their "home turf". Heck, if you went with the "downgrades" idea, that could be a really unique aspect of their strategy: they have specially advantageous objectives that they can pick, and additional ways to increase their bid in order to make them more likely to come into play.

EDIT: Also, yeah, sorry, I come from way too much of a SW RPG and old SW Minis background, so I tend to think of them in terms of "fringe" rather than "scum".

Keep Objectives All-parties. There's Special, and there's Elitist... If you release new objectives jsut for one side (outside of a campaign), then at least do the same for the others...

Players of the original factions should not be penalised for pickng up aand playing with the original factions before a new faction comes out...

Should be balanced to use the original objectives. Any new objectives will thusly be balanced for the original factions...

Campaign? Well that's different indeed... But anything Tournament Related should be balanced - its the whole point of points.

I think Saw's partisans still count as Rebels.... just the ugly, unfriendly kind of Rebellion that gets glossed over in the saga films. Saw's Rebels are part of the reason I think decent Imperial officers join the case: The Rebellion's desperation is causing a lot of collateral damage, which drives unaffected people to join the Empire and stop them. For the purposes here, partisan groups who oppose the empire can be lumped in as Rebels. This can include sepratist holdouts who are basically fighting the same entity, and may hope to push through reforms to allow them the independence they sought from the new political body. It's not like the Empire will do it, so what do they have to lose?

But if our arms are being twisted and a new third faction is being put out, this is what I'd like to see from it:

Empire/Rebellion can take them in fleets: If these are bounty hunters and guns-for-hire it makes sense that you should be able to hire them, just as the Empire hired the bounty hunters in Empire and just as the Rebellion swayed Han to the cause. They would be a third faction only in that you are allowed to take ships entirely composed of the third faction. Any commanders of that faction have to be entirely made up of that third faction...

But current fleets should be able to adopt them to utilize their unique characteristics. Maybe like the fighter limit there can be a points restriction on the number of scum ships added, and in the campaign the starting fleets cannot be allowed to use them. Maybe sanitize and borrow an idea from ST: Attack Wing by slapping a faction penalty on ships taken for the scum faction.

Regardless, I would like these fleets to be inclusive so the rest of us have an incentive to buy them, instead of being locked into scum only lists that are not interesting. After all, Imperial Assault and the Card Game do it, why not Armada?

Only new cards for Scum should be unique to them: I don't like looking at my X-Wing squad builder and seeing Elite Pilot Talents I want yoked to fighters I never want to buy. I think FFG should pass on Scum being a source of new basic cards (New Turbolasers, new generic officers) and instead limit their new cards on upgrade slots specific to scum, while re-packaging many of the basic cards players are lacking (Like XI7s, Intel Officers, and so on). If Scum's supposed to be getting everything improvised and second hand anyway, it stands to reason that is represented in their faction-specific upgrade cards while the standards are hand-me-downs.

So if there is a scum card in a C-ROC expansion for self-detonation to harm enemy ships (like some wanted out of the fleet support slot), it's present in the scum pack, but the C-ROC gets no new fleet support upgrades except what the Gozanti/GR-75 have available. If there's anew Fleet support card, it will instead come in the (let's presume...) Star Galleon pack released as part of the same wave.

Rebel/Empire should have better ships, Scum has better upgrades: If scum is about being pirates with illegal/improvised equipment and ships, then steady play should remain on the proper factions. That means Scum gets the worst of the lot when it comes to ship stats (a lot of speed 2, shields 1-2, mostly small ships), but with crazy things (more scatter, more upgrade slots, 1-2 scum upgrade slots per ship) inherent in their ships.

As we see with the illicit upgrades in X-Wing, this could be a source of crazy abilities that only scum ships are capable of doing. Sure, they're attached to flimsy speed 4+1 ships that are likely to explode with one mistake, but they have crazy upgrade X that, for instance, removes a command token from all ships at distance 1.

So, that's what I'd like to see Scum being if we're forced to have it. That's how I'd find it acceptable.

I would look at Empire at War: Forces of Corruption. FFG has already pulled content from there; I wouldn't be surprised if they used it as the basis of a Scum faction. It has Scum ships of all sizes, a few named units that would fit in, and unique game mechanisms that would help them stand apart, ( most notably their ships had special 'illicit' weapon systems like cloaking devices, shield drainers, etc. that could be a lot of fun in Armada.)

Scum Ships from FOC:

Crusader Corvette - Small anti- fighter ship similar to a Raider

Interceptor IV Frigate - Small ship similar to a Neb-B

Vengeance Class Frigate - No shields but can Cloak. Also has powerful Mass Drivers that bypass shields

Keldabe Battleship - Medium/Large ship with a special "Shield Leach" Weapon that syphons enemy shield energy into its weapons.

Aggressor Destroyer - Medium/Large ship with a pair of heavy cannons that shoot from a limited arc.

Don't think they can, Disney seems pretty intent on creating all new stuff if it doesn't closely adhere to the previous design aesthetic of the films.

I think a new faction could be slow in speed, but the VSD has handily demonstrated that any ship not natively capable of a 45 degree turn at speed 1 or 2 is effectively persona non grata in serious fleets. The inability to maneuver effectively is too large a handicap to meaningfully overcome.

A fun ships they should make is, Strong front shields (4) weak front arc (2x dice), Medium side shields (3) medium side arc (3 or 4 dice), weak rear shields (2) strong rear arc (7x dice)

This ship is best suited to run away from things rather than engage them head on.

Anyway think about

I took some Star Trek Armada ships, painted them black with green highlights for a Necron look.

I then invented a faction called "Necrosith" and fused the imagery/lore of Necrons and Sith together for a long lost race/order come back to plague the galaxy with a perverse form of necromantic technology.

Do you want nerdrage?

Because that's how you get nerdrage.

I find myself more and more adverse to diluting the factional differences with cross-faction ships.

Even if that would entail a compromise 3rd faction.

I like things being very distinct in that platform.

Why is that, though?

I understand that there's something about Star Wars, with two factions in the movies that are very different. One side is clean, striking, and sharp, whereas the other is messy, complicated, and imperfect. It's all we want from a good guys vs. bad guys fight, where we don't have to face moral complications of ethical wrangling, aside from testing willpower.

Which is, of course, very different from our real world, where it's much harder to decide who the good guys are are, if we really think about things.

Or, am I barking up a wrong tree with this analysis?

Why is that, though?

I understand that there's something about Star Wars, with two factions in the movies that are very different. One side is clean, striking, and sharp, whereas the other is messy, complicated, and imperfect. It's all we want from a good guys vs. bad guys fight, where we don't have to face moral complications of ethical wrangling, aside from testing willpower.

Which is, of course, very different from our real world, where it's much harder to decide who the good guys are are, if we really think about things.

Or, am I barking up a wrong tree with this analysis?

Its not a Star Wars thing, or a Real World thing.

Its a game thing.

I don't want 2 sides to feel "same-y".

I like there being a distinct choice in choosing which side. The strengths of one should not be the strengths of the other. I like being able to say "I like doing 'x', so 'y' works best for me as a side."

I don't want the only difference to be the colour of the pieces... There are a lot of games like that.

I also don't want the notorios R-P-S of 3 sides, either... Where the strengths of one are directly countered by the other and then again by the other....

I like having Options within a framework, that doesn't cross-pollinate with itself - so things feel distinct.

Besides. I play excellent bad-guys. I never go un-hated.

I took some Star Trek Armada ships, painted them black with green highlights for a Necron look.

I then invented a faction called "Necrosith" and fused the imagery/lore of Necrons and Sith together for a long lost race/order come back to plague the galaxy with a perverse form of necromantic technology.

Do you want nerdrage?

Because that's how you get nerdrage.

Eh...it's no worse than 2/3 of the EU novels out there. They are bad.

And besides, the ST ships I used are/were not the recognizable ones. You'd have to be a real ST fanboy to recognize a Jem'Hadar battleship...and I am not that.

Keep Objectives All-parties.

On one hand, I disagree. I don't think it would be any more problematic than faction-specific upgrades and the like. If anything, it could open up some interesting thematic design space at some point. Not a necessity, but something I wouldn't completely take off the table.

The balance aspect of it though, yeah. They'd have to remain balanced.

So amend my previous thoughts to something more like:

• Include balanced new objectives, usable by any faction, but thematically and mechanically suited to really play to the new faction's strengths.