Disclaimer: This thread is for constructive postulation, if you are here to whinge or complain turn right back around!

This isnt an open letter to FFG or a plea for a Third Faction, this is just a fun thread to converse and bounce ideas back and forth.

[Hypothetical]: I want you to imagine that FFG has announced a third faction is on the way. That's all we know although lets say they are meant to be contemporary of the the galactic civil war. How would a third faction play on the table? What is their gameplay focus?

With Wave V the two factions we have are solid and well rounded. The Empire is very forward focused and the Rebels tend to prefer their broadsides. Would a third faction play a lot with crazy firing arcs? Or would they have evenly distributed shields and crazy good maneuvering?

You can guess ships and ship types but what i'm going for is what the actual game play and rules would be like. Are there any areas of gameplay FFG has not covered or introduced into the current two?

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Personally I think that a third faction should only be able to compete with the Empire and by extension the rebels due to the skill of the admiral/player rather then relying on power of the ships as some people do. They should be hard faction to master full of tricks and crazy ships.

I got the idea from Rogue One, Lords of the Sith, and Tarkin. In Rogue One we see the Partisans, not quite friendly with the rebellion and definitely not an ally of the Empire use X-Wings. In Lords of the Sith we see an Imperial Star Destroyer is taken down through trickery and ingenuity from the use of buzz droids and many other tactics. In Tarkin we see a fleet of modified Separatist and Clone Wars Era ships including the massive class of the Droid Control Ship.

Rebels prefer broadsides? Nebulon B's and LMC80s want to have a word with you....

Rebels prefer broadsides? Nebulon B's and LMC80s want to have a word with you....

I mean typically, those are only two classes and its just an example to get the ball rolling.

Rebels prefer broadsides? Nebulon B's and LMC80s want to have a word with you....

Prefer. Not Only Use.... The Majority or Rebel Ships still have larger Broadsides than fronts, that's a stated preference...

As it is, my question is: Mechanics be damned... What Colour Plastic would they be to set them off as "different" to both ?

Ok, I'll be a little off topic, but I'm gonna pretend the third faction is Merchants/ Separatists aka Droids. It's not contemporary to the other 2. Don't care.

Droid ships would generally be:

- clunky: they need to feel like they are driven by some silly droid.

- powerful on paper, but extremely hard to master: sort of like the VSD pre Jerjerrod and Tua. Powerful guns, thick shields, but some evident weakness to play around for your opponent.

- cheap: that's the whole point of droids after all.

A Separatists fleet would be my choice to introduce a 3rd faction to Armada.

It would have to be slow as they come from the Clone Wars time period but you add the likes of Count Dooku, Admiral Trench and General Grievous in to the game but am not sure if they what to go down that route (it would cool if they did).

What would be cooler if they made a Subjugator-class heavy cruiser model like the Malevolence with General Grievous as Fleet Officer, would be an interesting battle, it should be able to hold it's own going up a against the likes of an Imperial Star Destroyer or a MC80.

Separatists Squadron would be full of Droids like most of the fleet is crewed by droids.

We can only dream but games like Armada and X Wing are games of what If!

As it is, my question is: Mechanics be damned... What Colour Plastic would they be to set them off as "different" to both ?

A warm metallic color such as copper or bronze?

I like that idea. Maybe less yaw and more straight ahead maneuvers? Something to represent how clunky they are?

Just kind of take a look at X-Wing. Less shields, more hull. Maybe instead of straight firepower they are an upgrade built faction. Imagine a corvette with only two black dice out front but with two missile upgrades and a fire control team.

As for capital ships, I don't see it happening unless they really make forces of corruption canon. Or we get a canon story that establishes a separate pirate kingdom that can support major capital ships.

An idea I had for a pirate ships would be something like the Keldabe but to kind of show the ramshackle nature, give it ISD hull (11), 6 shields in the front, none on the sides and rear.

There really is a lot you can do with the Armada system.

I'd rather see Republic and CIS added next. Scum is boring for me. I've always liked the clone wars since I grew up reading and playing games based in that time period.

It might look weird fielding CIS vs Rebels, but the timeline for characters in Armada right now isn't correct either. I figure FFG could be flexible with the timeline issue, and go full steam ahead with adding both factions. I'm not interested in adding either faction to what we have now. I'd rather have 2 clear cut fleets with unique play styles.

I'd also like Old Republic vs Sith since that is another major civil war. I'd be fine with those being added to Imps/Rebels as derelict ships refitted to their old glory days.

If scum had to be added, make it playable by both sides as neutral ships. No rehashed ideas. Get some new stuff in the game. Both sides were known to work with pirates, or at least have a mutual agreement. This would allow for small based ships to be added with unique features without worrying about medium/large ships and coming up with a story as to why/how pirates took over an ISD.

I'd think mechanics/theme would be easy. Low hull and shields, very fast and nimble, with quite a bit of firepower/offensive upgrades. I'd rather give the option to people to run their scum than have it overtake the game.

For example: Pirate Interceptor Frigate from EaW.

Small base. 40-50 points. 4 Hull, 2 shield front, 1 on sides and rear. Evade+Redirect

2 black 1 red out the front. 2 red on sides. 1 red out rear.

Ordnance, Turbolaser, Offensive Retrofit slots. Cannot hold a commander.

Manuever: 1. II 2. I II 3. - I II 4. I - I II

I'm just throwing **** out there.

I do think the best way to implement scum would be allowing cross faction units. It would also allow for better story telling for people who play at home, or even adding a small pirate force to the campaign when taking unoccupied planets. I know that was something that came up several months ago.

Edit: Also, make faction specific uniques only equip to faction ships. So you don't get Leia on a pirate ship. Help reduce crazy OP strats, and force the players to still take rebel or imp ships.

Cardboard-Only.

The faction allows you to utilize existing (and future) ships from either the Empire or Rebellion, with a few limitations:

1. They do not have access to Large-based ships.
2. They do not have access to existing ship titles.

• Their "theme" is customization.
• They have their own Admiral(s), and officers. They cannot use Rebel or Imperial Admirals or officers.
• There are some faction-specific upgrades that allow them to really play around with changing which upgrade icons are available on which ships. This represents fringe modifications and customization to ships that the standard factions wouldn't or couldn't do.
• There are some faction-specific modification upgrades that really alter what a ship's statline might look like. Changing (not just increasing) the battery or shield values of the ship, it's nav chart, or its defense tokens.
• There are faction-specific ship titles for some of the more common ship types (especially the starter box ships). There might also be titles that, rather being specific to a specific model of ship, are linked only to the size of the ship. For example, you could have titles that work with any Medium ship, or titles that work with any Flotilla.
• They do not have their own squadrons. Instead, they either (a) have their own faction-specific cards to have versions of existing squadrons mixed from both existing factions, or (b) have a set of cards that let them use (and modify!) existing standard squadrons, including their own unique pilots.

Overall, the feel they bring to the table is one of a scrounged-together, sort of functional, backwater "fleet". This isn't a small portion of the Empire or Rebellion - the intent is for it to feel like this faction is bringing literally everything they have to every Armada battle. And literally everything they have might consist of a stolen Victory SD, some Corvettes, and a mix of flotillas (with gun batteries bolted on), plus whatever fighters they've pulled together when the "big boy" factions weren't looking.

If you wanted to get silly with it, the boxed set that gives you this might even let you name some of the things yourself (with guidelines and recommendations in the booklet), so that every third-faction player's fleet really feels completely unique.

Cardboard-Only.

The faction allows you to utilize existing (and future) ships from either the Empire or Rebellion, with a few limitations:

1. They do not have access to Large-based ships.
2. They do not have access to existing ship titles.

• Their "theme" is customization.
• They have their own Admiral(s), and officers. They cannot use Rebel or Imperial Admirals or officers.
• There are some faction-specific upgrades that allow them to really play around with changing which upgrade icons are available on which ships. This represents fringe modifications and customization to ships that the standard factions wouldn't or couldn't do.
• There are some faction-specific modification upgrades that really alter what a ship's statline might look like. Changing (not just increasing) the battery or shield values of the ship, it's nav chart, or its defense tokens.
• There are faction-specific ship titles for some of the more common ship types (especially the starter box ships). There might also be titles that, rather being specific to a specific model of ship, are linked only to the size of the ship. For example, you could have titles that work with any Medium ship, or titles that work with any Flotilla.
• They do not have their own squadrons. Instead, they either (a) have their own faction-specific cards to have versions of existing squadrons mixed from both existing factions, or (b) have a set of cards that let them use (and modify!) existing standard squadrons, including their own unique pilots.

Overall, the feel they bring to the table is one of a scrounged-together, sort of functional, backwater "fleet". This isn't a small portion of the Empire or Rebellion - the intent is for it to feel like this faction is bringing literally everything they have to every Armada battle. And literally everything they have might consist of a stolen Victory SD, some Corvettes, and a mix of flotillas (with gun batteries bolted on), plus whatever fighters they've pulled together when the "big boy" factions weren't looking.

If you wanted to get silly with it, the boxed set that gives you this might even let you name some of the things yourself (with guidelines and recommendations in the booklet), so that every third-faction player's fleet really feels completely unique.

I think this would be a really cool way of doing a third mercenary faction. No title power from rebel or imperial ships or unique squads. Then FFG could make new mercenary ships and squads to add to the pool. I have no idea how this could be balanced, but I would love the ability to throw rebel and imperial ships together in the same fleet.

Full on shenanigans is the only way. Crazy, non-tournament legal stuff.

-Squadrons that can kamikaze ships to inflict 3 black dice, bypassing shields.

-Upgrades that can drag around obstacles or spew new debris onto the field.

-Boarding parties who can activate on a crit and sabotage upgrades or remove commanders.

-Ion Engine Overload torpedos that flip your opponent's ship 180 degrees.

I second the preference for Clone Wars era units, whether as two new factions, the Republic and CIS, or as pieces worked into new waves. I'm concerned about the explicit addition of a new faction or two given Scum's rollout in X-wing, but the dual-faction starships would seem to me to be a neat solution. We shall see if Wave 6 reveals anything of that sort.

And for those who want something much sooner, there's always Kuat Drive Yards and Armada Shipyards you can raid for ships at your leisure.

I would look at Empire at War: Forces of Corruption. FFG has already pulled content from there; I wouldn't be surprised if they used it as the basis of a Scum faction. It has Scum ships of all sizes, a few named units that would fit in, and unique game mechanisms that would help them stand apart, ( most notably their ships had special 'illicit' weapon systems like cloaking devices, shield drainers, etc. that could be a lot of fun in Armada.)

Scum Ships from FOC:

Crusader Corvette - Small anti- fighter ship similar to a Raider

Interceptor IV Frigate - Small ship similar to a Neb-B

Vengeance Class Frigate - No shields but can Cloak. Also has powerful Mass Drivers that bypass shields

Keldabe Battleship - Medium/Large ship with a special "Shield Leach" Weapon that syphons enemy shield energy into its weapons.

Aggressor Destroyer - Medium/Large ship with a pair of heavy cannons that shoot from a limited arc.

A Separatists fleet would be my choice to introduce a 3rd faction to Armada.

It would have to be slow as they come from the Clone Wars time period but you add the likes of Count Dooku, Admiral Trench and General Grievous in to the game but am not sure if they what to go down that route (it would cool if they did).

I don't see why the ships would need to be that much slower just because they are 20 years old. Twenty years in Star Wars technology time is an eyeblink, and it's safe to say that technology in Star Wars peaked and has been stagnant for thousands of years. If you watch any videos from the Old Republic, for instance, their ships and starfighters are just as fast and powerful as those of The Force Awakens (and indeed there's really not much difference between a Jedi Interceptor in RotS and a TIE/SF in TFA, at least in terms of speed and firepower and shielding, and that's a 60 year gap. Hell, the Falcon is an old hunk of junk in ANH, and yet by TFA it still outperforms current snubfighters (and it's not like it's even been well maintained or modified, it literally "hasn't flown in years" according to Rey). Lightsabers and blasters are functionally indistinguishable between the Old Republic and The Force Awakens (500-1000 years difference).

Though I agree because of their size and their function (blockading and remote command) the Trade Federation Battleships would be slow (perhaps even the best candidate for a Speed 1 ship, though it's an open question if a ship that slow could be of any use in Armada). Commerce Guild destroyers, Banking Clan Frigates, and Providence-Class Battleships could all be comparably zippy, though, to Rebel and Imperial analogues. Perhaps the Trade Federation Droid Command Ships could justify their slow speed by having high Squadron values and some sort of built-in Relay when activating Droid trait fighters. This would let them function from outside the fight and could incentivize the opponent to come after them.

Either way, thematically it would be a little tougher to justify the Separatists as a faction, especially if they feature Clone Wars era commanders like Dooku or Grievous. But with enough creativity we could easily imagine them as "What If" scenarios. What if Palpatine's machinations had failed and the Separatists won the war? The Rebel Alliance might be resisting them. Or perhaps the war dragged on for another decade or two and the Empire is still in a galaxy-wide war with the CIS. Or, perhaps, it just represents an aggressive cell of the CIS rising back up and taking advantage of the Galactic War to push their own interests aggressively.

I actually think a Separatists Fleet could play very uniquely and interestingly, whilst also being filled with some unique and nice ship designs. The Republic, however, doesn't have much design or aesthetic space to fill. It's basically Imperial ships with Rebel squadrons. Not anything I'd be excited or interested in seeing in Armada.

Does it really matter thematically if CIS fight Rebels or Imps?

After all, Antilles was killed by Vader. So I guess Antilles should always be on the Tantive when fighting Vader?

Right now, the timeline makes no sense when you put characters and titled ships on the table, but no one questions it because it's Rebels vs Imps. Who cares when someone died right?

Empire at War made its own storyline in order to get a scum fleet into the game, FFG can do the same. My standard suggestion: do a campaign box.

A scum player in the campaign plays as an Outer Rim warlord amassing a pirate fleet and clashing with imperial and rebel forces. The campaign limits him to very select starting forces at first: appropriate squadrons from a list, flotillas, and stolen corvettes. The first round of the campaign balances the battle though. In later rounds, the scum player can use other ships captured in battle.

This campaign is well received, and players start clamoring for a full scum faction playable at tournaments, instead of just a campaign faction. Others complain that scum couldn't fight a full battle at tournaments because we haven't seen them face capital ships in the movies. Dead game threads on the forum. FFG does it anyway, because the scum campaign is its own justification for the faction. Roll out a few scum ships in the next wave, and the Outer Rim warlord from the campaign is the faction's first commander, with the faction specifically representing his pirate empire. The rest of the fleet is other factions' units with scum tiles and officers, and slowly grows with new releases.

If FFG can write its own storylines in their RPG, they can do it in Armada.

A hypothetical third party could rely on moving battlestations (slower but stronger than ISD) and extremely fast, extremely fragile ships. Yuuhzan Vong come to my mind

Scum that works as its own faction or can be mixed in with current fleets would be fun. You can throw in stuff from the Hutt Cartel, the Black Sun, Mandalorians, Zann Consortium and Corp Sec.

I doubt we will see Clone Wars stuff in the near future. So far all of FFG's Star Wars products have focused on the Rebellion Era or the TFA. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney has directed is license holders to avoid focusing on the controversial Prequels.

I like this question, and I agree with pasewi that a Scum campaign box would be a great way to introduce them. It would have to be a very different sort of campaign, I think. It would still be Rebels vs. the Empire, but with Scum as a form of spoiler with dramatically different victory conditions, given that their goals are different. There would be whole new line of objective cards.

Honestly, inspired by the X-Wing announcement yesterday (C-ROC), I'm of a mind to figure a way to integrate X-Wing and Scum into the future house-ruled campaign that I hope to organize.

Does it really matter thematically if CIS fight Rebels or Imps?

After all, Antilles was killed by Vader. So I guess Antilles should always be on the Tantive when fighting Vader?

Right now, the timeline makes no sense when you put characters and titled ships on the table, but no one questions it because it's Rebels vs Imps. Who cares when someone died right?

The point for me is that we're telling the story of Star Wars as if the timeline went differently. I still like the idea of the Clone War being the Clone War and that having happened. I do think that with the Republic and Separatist fleets having existed, they would be available hardware to new factions. I what AllWingsStandyingBy is saying about the technology advancement, but at the same time there's also a great deal that talks about advancing technology. I think the best policy is to not get too hung up on that discrepancy.

Anyway, as the OP framed it, this faction would be a "contemporary of the the galactic civil war", and Scum is the most prevalent, I think.

I think that a Scum fleet really should be based around small ships and flotillas, with only the occasional medium and exceptional large ship. That's not because I don't think that Scum could get their hands on one, but because their cost/incentive structure would make those less effective for scum needs. I also like the ideas hat Greatfrito presents about cardboard and customization. The cardboard was essentially what they did in X-Wing's Most Wanted. It allowed Scum players to relatively quickly get up to speed. But, still FFG is in the market of selling miniatures, and the Star Wars universe has a lot of designs out there that would be fun to incorporate.

I'd rather see Separatists (or just the Trade Federation - Commerce Guild - Banking Clan) fleet as an additional faction, before Scum, but Scum would certainly have plenty of commanders to choose from: Jabba the Hutt, Gardulla the Hutt, Hondo Ohnaka, Prince Xizor, perhaps a Mandalore (pending where Rebels is going), etc.

I think the best way to such a faction would be as PRIVATE INTERESTS, rather than Scum & Villainy. Whoever the commander is, they've brokered deals and hired mercenaries and called in debts and signed contracts and issued threats and blackmails to assemble their personal fleet. It's not like the Commander's fleet need represent a part of a much greater galaxy-wide whole, but could just be the small personal fleet of one of these powerful third party players. A fleet that's been assembled either for protection or to perform a specific job.

I can't imagine anyone who wants a S&V like third faction disagrees with the critics who are saying that the scum don't have a fleet that can rival the Imperial Fleet or even the Rebel fleet. Of course they can't rival the entirety of the Imperial fleet, but the Imperial fleet is necessarily spread across an entire Galaxy it has to police and govern. A Crime Lord's (or other privately interested) commander doesn't need a fleet that can take on the entire Empire all by themselves (like Dak Ratler), but rather just a fleet that can intimidate rivals, protect local interests, and occasionally stand-up to the local Imperial garrison's Governor if he starts getting a little tax-happy. Such a fleet would perfectly fit into the scale of Armada as a one-off excursion between an Imperial Garrison fleet and the local boss' men. No one thinks or needs to think that Jabba's fleet of enrforcers is going to continue combating the Empire all the way to Coruscant until he's on the Imperial throne himself. Nah, he'll just murder the local Governor, destroy his forces, and barter for a new and more agreeable contract arrangement when the reinforcements arrive. The Empire will probably acquiesce and play ball, because in the long run it's still a hell of a lot more economical than organizing and launching a larger military effort against Jabba's forces, and then risk also starting a much larger and more costly engagement with the Hutt Cartel itself, whom do generally provide a mutualistic sort of ally to the Empire when they're on ostensibly friendly terms.

This sort of above dynamic is precisely why Tarkin and the Emperor wanted the Death Star. To stop with this endless and costly effort of policing an entire galaxy, because once you can show up and blow up the entire Western half of the Great Dune Sea (or all of Tatooine if you feel like it) you take away all ability and incentive of peoples across the galaxy to resist or challenge your will.

So your three factions could be something like:

Empire
Rebels
Private Interests


Because while the Rebels and Imperials are part of a grander whole with lofty aspirations for the control of the entire galaxy (be it through Emperor or Self-Represented Senate), the Commanders and pilots and crew of Private Interests fleet have just that -- their own private, and probably much less ambitious, interests. They'll fight Imperials because local garrisons and governors can get in the way, or hell maybe it's just settling a score and satisfying a vendetta for a fallen or jailed friend. They'll fight Rebels because Rebels can get in the way and their presence can garnish unwanted attention. Rebels also have plenty of bounties on their head and ships and weapons that can be salvaged or pirated.

(Double-Post)

Some Mandalorians would be cool. With a new weapon slot like Heavy Laser Cannons. Maybe add a different color dice like yellow. Full of some tough general purpose ships that don't have many weaknesses and few strengths.

Droids/CIS.

I mentioned in a thread a while back for a droid keyword for squads. Basically, when within range 1-3 of a friendly ship with droid contollers, they gain swarm and rogue. Outside of that Droid Controller, they cannot move without squad commands. Just shoot. Makes them super potent but with huge liability.

The ships would have weak shielding but high hull. A faction specific upgrade making repairs easier.

I'd rather not have a 3rd faction. That's neither whinging nor complaining, just adding my opinion.

That being said, if there were to be one, I'd rather it be something really whacked.

I took some Star Trek Armada ships, painted them black with green highlights for a Necron look.

I then invented a faction called "Necrosith" and fused the imagery/lore of Necrons and Sith together for a long lost race/order come back to plague the galaxy with a perverse form of necromantic technology.

How they'd play? Essentially force sensitive ships that use really whacked out stuff like battlefield teleportation, gravity weapons (fire a singularity maker, treat as black hole; closer you get the more damage you take). crap like that.

Hey, I realize it'd NEVER HAPPEN. But you asked.