I came over from X-wing (don't hit me) and the last thing I purchased was the first Scum and Villainy wave. I was stoked to play the new faction, being a fan of the PC game Empire at War's expansion. But I never even opened the ships or used them. I kept building teams that I just couldn't get into, mainly because they couldn't compete.

I know Armada is a different environment than X-wing. It's more laid back and gentlemanly style was something I immediately liked. The competitive nature is there in Armada, but not to the degree of... well... not to the level X-wing has taken it to, at least in my experience.

That's why now is the perfect time for a wave that introduces a new faction to Armada. Think about it, another wave of Rebel and Imperial ships will put a third faction right in the same boat as It was in X-wing: cool, but not competitive.

Now competition isn't everything, and don't go thinking I'm some trophy diver or what have you, but it's not much fun to have something new in a tabletop game and just get wiped off the map each time you field it. Also, it could result in overcompensation, such as with the Jumpmaster in X-wing. But if they released a third faction as the next wave it wouldn't be left behind. A wave with a capital ship, two medium vessels, a small ship and a flotilla, and a pack of fighters with extra cardboard to "borrow" the bounty hunters most people already own and they're on pace. But it another wave drops with just Rebs and Imps, well...

(Also, this assumes a third faction will also be Scum and Villainy)

Thoughts?

Its too late

Its too late

It's leaning that way, but I think if they dedicate a whole wave to it that it won't be

I just don't see a third faction at all. The crime syndicates would use small ships and fighters to run illegal operations but they would never amass a fleet for an attack. Just don't see it.

A third faction would ruin the flavor of the game.

I just don't see a third faction at all. The crime syndicates would use small ships and fighters to run illegal operations but they would never amass a fleet for an attack. Just don't see it.

This exactly. Armada is just too big of a scale for scum in my mind. Keep it to the Civil War. Maybe eventually add First Order/Resistance when the source material allows it. Don't try to shoehorn a third faction that doesn't work thematically and/or gets pulled entirely from non-cannon sources.

Scum had (one) highly competitive build on release ("Brobots"- 2 of the IG-88s) as well as several fairly strong additional archetypes, and only gained additional competitive options as the waves have continued. FFG should not have trouble releasing a third faction whenever they wish from a competitive standpoint.

Thematically, though, a third faction doesn't really fit Armada, as has been said many, many times before.

I just don't see a third faction at all. The crime syndicates would use small ships and fighters to run illegal operations but they would never amass a fleet for an attack. Just don't see it.

This exactly. Armada is just too big of a scale for scum in my mind. Keep it to the Civil War. Maybe eventually add First Order/Resistance when the source material allows it. Don't try to shoehorn a third faction that doesn't work thematically and/or gets pulled entirely from non-cannon sources.

Talk to you guys later on when they release a Scum and Villainy faction

A full "third faction" doesn't make any sense to me, either. As others have said, the scale is just... larger. "Scum" really only fit into this in a capacity of working with/for one faction or the other.

However, I could see something along the lines of the CC boxed set - a "cardboard expansion" - with a set of "scum" versions of various existing ships (using the ships from the starter would probably be ideal).

Some kind of "campaign" involving fighting the (rare) amassing of an actual full-scale Scum fleet. Even if only as a "neutral" or third party in a larger Rebel/Imperial territorial conflict.

EDIT: Although really, a faction that -did- only include smaller ships, flotillas, and squadrons could be really interesting.

I just don't see a third faction at all. The crime syndicates would use small ships and fighters to run illegal operations but they would never amass a fleet for an attack. Just don't see it.

This exactly. Armada is just too big of a scale for scum in my mind. Keep it to the Civil War. Maybe eventually add First Order/Resistance when the source material allows it. Don't try to shoehorn a third faction that doesn't work thematically and/or gets pulled entirely from non-cannon sources.

Oh vomit. This argument again?!? This was the same thing everyone said about it in X-wing. Didn't think I'd find that same naysayers' attitude with this crowd. Guess you learn something everyday.

Talk to you guys later on when they release a Scum and Villainy faction

Armada is capital ships, not fighters like X-Wing.

What true scum ships can go toe to toe with an ISD? Mandalorians have the ships, but are they really scum and pirates? According to Rebels, one of our current sources for canon, show Mandos working for the Empire. And it looks like they don't have the numbers to actually fight the Empire, nor have any capital ships.

There is a difference between thematics and practicality. I do think scum would break the thematics of the game. This is Armada. Capital ships dualing, fighters setting up attack runs, and small cruisers zipping around taking shots.

On another note, you infer Armada is a more mature crowd, and you proceed to throw a tantrum when people don't agree with what you want. Guess we won't talk again because I don't think FFG will release scum in Armada.

You guys do know FFG makes stuff up for this game, right? Whole ships, like the Raider? I don't see how a third faction would be a stretch.

Especially once they start to run out of ships and the game gets stale. Just like what was happening with X-wing, they'll reach into the EU and get creative rather than let a game dry out and die.

Edit, I like this one better:

I just don't see a third faction at all. The crime syndicates would use small ships and fighters to run illegal operations but they would never amass a fleet for an attack. Just don't see it.

This exactly. Armada is just too big of a scale for scum in my mind. Keep it to the Civil War. Maybe eventually add First Order/Resistance when the source material allows it. Don't try to shoehorn a third faction that doesn't work thematically and/or gets pulled entirely from non-cannon sources.

Oh vomit. This argument again?!? This was the same thing everyone said about it in X-wing. Didn't think I'd find that same naysayers' attitude with this crowd. Guess you learn something everyday.

Talk to you guys later on when they release a Scum and Villainy faction

Armada is capital ships, not fighters like X-Wing.

What true scum ships can go toe to toe with an ISD? Mandalorians have the ships, but are they really scum and pirates? According to Rebels, one of our current sources for canon, show Mandos working for the Empire. And it looks like they don't have the numbers to actually fight the Empire, nor have any capital ships.

There is a difference between thematics and practicality. I do think scum would break the thematics of the game. This is Armada. Capital ships dualing, fighters setting up attack runs, and small cruisers zipping around taking shots.

On another note, you infer Armada is a more mature crowd, and you proceed to throw a tantrum when people don't agree with what you want. Guess we won't talk again because I don't think FFG will release scum in Armada.

I think the Armada scale is wrong for scum. Why would any pirate cartel have reason to attack a full ISD?

I also think with how FFG has released fighter packs already you'd get a ton of duplicate squads. In X Wing at the time the only scum aligned characters were in the Firespray. So just one upgrade. Not a whole new set duplicated

Unless they pulled some outside third faction out of their butt who would be the third faction? Not scum / traders thats for sure. There might be a few independent ships involving illicit deals out there that are quite large but largely theyre all freighters or Corvette sized ships.

When I see these posts I'm curious if you want a new play style game wise or a different astethtic?

With Commanders that offer fleet-wide abilities and the objective system in Armada, I don't think it needs a 3rd faction. X-Wing doesn't have those elements to change how it plays, and like a deck-construction game that is for all intents and purposes a head-to-head death match each and every time, it thrives on a steady stream of fresh options. That's why Scum were important to X-Wing - it needed that jolt of added variety to keep from becoming stagnant.

When FFG releases a new Commander for Armada, all the ships from their respective faction can get a fresh look. Case in point: Moff Jerjerrod and VSDs. Rather than a third faction, I think something like the Corellian Conflict campaign box is what has breathed new life into Armada. If we get those once a year that would be amazing!

Well here's the fact folks. We are not FFG, nor do any of us work for them. If they want to add a third faction.. they will. Even if we think it wont make sense. In today's day and age, it's not about making sense. It's about how much money can I make without completely alienating my player/fan base? And that's the bottom line.

I think the Armada scale is wrong for scum. Why would any pirate cartel have reason to attack a full ISD?

I also think with how FFG has released fighter packs already you'd get a ton of duplicate squads. In X Wing at the time the only scum aligned characters were in the Firespray. So just one upgrade. Not a whole new set duplicated

A new faction should play differently than the others, which this could lead to. And as far as a Scum faction taking on a full ISD, what reason does the Rebellion have? Anyone remember playing just the starter set intro scenario for Armada? If you were the Rebels, taking on a VSD was pretty awful. But add in objectives and it starts to make more sense. But if you think about it from the Rebellion's point of view, doing any fleet action that loses you a ship should be 100% necessary. This game does not thematically present that, unless we're talking the new campaign, but even that is designed as fair.

Scum should be the same way, only they should have faction specific objectives. Goals that makes sense for them, and maybe some for the rebellion to use as well. After all, where's my blockade running objective in this game?

It doesn't seem fair to just turn away a whole faction that enough people seem genuinely interested in. But introducing a third faction to Armada would admittedly be difficult and require more work than the expansions for the Empire or Rebellion. But don't count it out as impossible, as FFG has proven the forum predictions wrong again and again.

I think Armada needs to hit a bit more popularity before FFG seriously considers spending the time and money on developing and distributing a whole third faction.

I'm just not as interested in the design of most scum ships, but that's personal preference. I always have the option to not buy scum ships if they come to Armada.

I would hope I really good upgrades wouldn't find their way into only scum ship expansions like they've done in X-Wing (I'm looking at you Starviper and how you hoard those autothrusters from future expansions). But that's unlikely to happen.

P.S. The Raider has been the only ship created by exclusively by FFG. I don't think it's common practice if they can avoid it.

I think the Armada scale is wrong for scum. Why would any pirate cartel have reason to attack a full ISD?

I also think with how FFG has released fighter packs already you'd get a ton of duplicate squads. In X Wing at the time the only scum aligned characters were in the Firespray. So just one upgrade. Not a whole new set duplicated

I think this, as well as the comment about a Scum faction mainly being flotillas and small ships, could lead to some interesting ideas.

A new faction should play differently than the others, which this could lead to. And as far as a Scum faction taking on a full ISD, what reason does the Rebellion have? Anyone remember playing just the starter set intro scenario for Armada? If you were the Rebels, taking on a VSD was pretty awful. But add in objectives and it starts to make more sense.

Scum should be the same way, only they should have faction specific objectives. Goals that makes sense for them, and maybe sone for the rebellion to use as well. After all, where's my blockade running objective in this game?

And as far as a Scum faction taking on a full ISD, what reason does the Rebellion have?

Well the Rebellion's at war with the Empire so...

After all, where's my blockade running objective in this game?

It's in the Corellian Conflict campaign box. One of the new objectives.

I would prefer neutral ships and cards, or cards that represent a stolen/damaged/repaired ship from the other faction.

I have really jumped into CC and should there be future campaigns, would love to see planetary defense forces that are not Imperial/Rebel specific. Planets could lean rebel for example, and when attacked, the defense force would aid the Rebels.

Provides us Imperial Admirals more fodder to destroy!

And as far as a Scum faction taking on a full ISD, what reason does the Rebellion have?

Well the Rebellion's at war with the Empire so...

After all, where's my blockade running objective in this game?

It's in the Corellian Conflict campaign box. One of the new objectives.

Somebody just got owned.

Technically it's all Legends now, but if you are fielding a fleet led by Garm Bel Iblis, you actually are fielding a fringe faction. For the entire Civil War he was never part of the Rebellion, and actually thought to be dead until the Thrawn fiasco.