Brex-wing

Comparing to X-Wing is not laughable, and the logistics of supplying the equipment & mats etc is part of the entry fee and would apply wherever you booked the event. Choosing to book that event in a stupid location at a stupid time that adds hundreds in supplemental cost for flights/hotel/tickets to an event you won't attend... that's the issue.

And I know all about the logistics involved have worked behind the scenes on dozens of major Magic events. It's not laughable to compare a 600 player Magic tournament to a 600 player X-Wing tournament, apart from in the small minds of X-Wing crew and their inferiority complexes. Get over yourself and go and be excellent instead of settling for ****!

I'm not bemoaning the event - if anything I applaud it's inception - but €600+ to enter a competitive is a hell of a buy in. You can't blame people for being a bit put off by that. Especially with that ticket scenario.

I would agree with you IF the ticket prices for the Uk games expo would not be dirt cheap. 80€ for a 3 day family ticket is dirt cheap, you can bring the family, play x-wing yourselfs and either have the family entering the competition too or look around at the expo and/or looking around in Birmingham.

http://www.ukgamesexpo.co.uk/tickets.php

But it certainly not cheap to travel for events, but so is life. A weekend holiday always cost some money.

It's cheap for a family ticket, but if you're paying £30 for a single ticket to an event you'll never see because you'll be participating in an event that you also have to pay another £30-ish for (basing that on the Yavin entry price). £80 for four people to have a fun weekend is great. £60 for one person to enter a tournament is a bit harder to chew (and I will be the first to stand up and be happily corrected if the entry fee is just a nominal charge of a fiver or something).

Now don't get me wrong, the guys run a good show. I'm sure the whole thing will be a fantastic event, and I'd love to go, but I ran the numbers on it when it was announced based on my last trip over, and it's really, really hard to justify. That said, if I was within driving distance (ie, living in the UK), I'd be there with bells on.

I'm still very much behind this event, I'm just going to have to be behind it from a distance of several hundred miles.

What short notice? they announced this in November and the event is in June.

Well there's a few stages of announcements:

1. There's the presumption that there'll be something X-Wing happening on the weekend (which is fine for people who are definitely going to the Games Expo and are happy to book well in advance)
2. The announcement that there WILL be something official there (which was late last year, though if it was November then that's already the NEC/Airport hotels gone already)
3. The announcement on the details of the event, which was a few days ago. And it's not like those details aren't important - previous events were just Sat-Sun, knowing that this year is Fri-Sun throws spanners into the works.
4. Tickets actually going on sale - though with the numbers they're expecting I guess the worry isn't there that you won't get one, so people can try to organise themselves.

It's not that it's late notice for an X-Wing event, it's late notice for organising accommodation for the Games Expo. Completely understandable as well, of course, I don't think there's anything else FFG could do on this kind of time scale. But in my case: I booked my hotels last September for the Fri-Sun, to get another room for the Thursday evening will cost me the same as the other two nights combined, and that's not even going to be near the event as those are either all gone or way too much. Edit: Actually, it wasn't that much more once I shopped around a bit. It's still a journey in but it's not bad.

I mean, this is all part of the rough and tumble of a games expo, which is fine because the expo is great. But I can understand that someone who just wants to go to a European Championship and is on a bit of a budget just won't be able to afford it.

Comparing to X-Wing is not laughable, and the logistics of supplying the equipment & mats etc is part of the entry fee and would apply wherever you booked the event. Choosing to book that event in a stupid location at a stupid time that adds hundreds in supplemental cost for flights/hotel/tickets to an event you won't attend... that's the issue.

And I know all about the logistics involved have worked behind the scenes on dozens of major Magic events. It's not laughable to compare a 600 player Magic tournament to a 600 player X-Wing tournament, apart from in the small minds of X-Wing crew and their inferiority complexes. Get over yourself and go and be excellent instead of settling for ****!

Ok number 1, and I am going to bold and underline this for emphases, X-Wing has maybe 1/4 of the Magic player base. Getting 600 people to a magic tournament is relatively simple and most cities can do that without breaking a sweat. This also means there are judges and TOs a plenty as well. X-wing however is more niche and needs the EXPO and distributor direct help with logistics.

Second, X-wing requires about 3 times the physical space of a MtG game. This means that your hall that fit Magic now needs to be 3 times bigger. You need 3 times more table space as well meaning more tables you need to rent.

Third, MtG has been being played competitively for decades at this point. There is a massive tournament structure in place, logistical know how and overall experience. compared to FFG's X-Wing Organized Play, which is 4 years old and this is its FIRST European Championship.

Fourth, This European championship is NOT just for X-wing. This needs to cover all of FFG's competitive games, meaning you need more halls and more logistical support that has to come from the distributor and venue. Also, players might be playing in multiple events that span days. Players might play in multiple events here that aren't even FFG related.

There are a myriad of factors that go into this and the cost to the player is only one of those. If it really is so outrageous to you, don't go and let them know why and that you would be willing to bring your experience in on the next event. I am sure that they will still get plenty of participation.

Already done. I'm not going as I got burned too badly last year at Expo and UK Nats, and I know a bunch of UK players who will be making the same decision this year. I made it pretty deep into the prizes both times last year but there's no way to justify the expense involved for what you get in return.

Are you really suggesting that any hotel in Birmingham + travel for most of Europe would come even close to holding this in any of the Nordic countries?

TIL the only other option to Birmngham is Helsinki.

Helsinki is Hell

some where in western Germany is easy access from NL, BE, FR, CH, DK, PL, CZ, LU and DE

OK access from ES, PL, UK, IT, SE, FI, and NO

They sure do! Now, what do you think it costs to rent one of those out by yourself? FFG's distributor is probably not paying very much to host the event at the EXPO. Because it is bringing in 4-600 people. Also, where are you going to get the mats, tables, and other things you need to run the event? The labor to set it up? FFG sent their own crews and supplies to US nationals and NA championships. In this case, its probably Eridivisium (or whatever their name is) probably putting on the show. So they have to factor in their labor costs and volunteer pool for running the event.

I am just not seeing your point whatsoever. This location was chosen for all the points SEApocalypse pointed out and those I pointed out . It just seems like you're not really thinking through all the behind the scenes things that are actually going on, and can't see past your personal problem with the location.

Uhm … Esdevium is a 100% asmodee daughter, they are basically FFG. Same btw for the german distributor. FFG is buying everything related to their business, well or better Asmodee is. So the UK event should be handled mostly internal and they could have picked as well Paris. I would assume they picked the UK again because the UK events seem to be the ones with the smoothest and biggest in europe so far, meaning the expertise and experience is already there. The fusion with the german bears and asmodee is brand new and the plans for the european championships had been made a long time ago. We might see other locations in the coming years, but current the UK is the place in europe with the strongest organisation team for them.

Are you really suggesting that any hotel in Birmingham + travel for most of Europe would come even close to holding this in any of the Nordic countries?

TIL the only other option to Birmngham is Helsinki.

Helsinki is Hell

some where in western Germany is easy access from NL, BE, FR, CH, DK, PL, CZ, LU and DE

OK access from ES, PL, UK, IT, SE, FI, and NO

Like Frankfurt. Everybody flies to Frankfurt. Or Berlin.

Not sure about Berlin, but I am quite sure that a lot of people would drive or take the train to frankfurt. I am 800km away from Frankfurt, I still would like to see an event there. Though personally I would rather see worlds in the near future in Paris. ^-^

Comparing to X-Wing is not laughable, and the logistics of supplying the equipment & mats etc is part of the entry fee and would apply wherever you booked the event. Choosing to book that event in a stupid location at a stupid time that adds hundreds in supplemental cost for flights/hotel/tickets to an event you won't attend... that's the issue.

And I know all about the logistics involved have worked behind the scenes on dozens of major Magic events. It's not laughable to compare a 600 player Magic tournament to a 600 player X-Wing tournament, apart from in the small minds of X-Wing crew and their inferiority complexes. Get over yourself and go and be excellent instead of settling for ****!

Ok number 1, and I am going to bold and underline this for emphases, X-Wing has maybe 1/4 of the Magic player base. Getting 600 people to a magic tournament is relatively simple and most cities can do that without breaking a sweat. This also means there are judges and TOs a plenty as well. X-wing however is more niche and needs the EXPO and distributor direct help with logistics.

Second, X-wing requires about 3 times the physical space of a MtG game. This means that your hall that fit Magic now needs to be 3 times bigger. You need 3 times more table space as well meaning more tables you need to rent.

Third, MtG has been being played competitively for decades at this point. There is a massive tournament structure in place, logistical know how and overall experience. compared to FFG's X-Wing Organized Play, which is 4 years old and this is its FIRST European Championship.

Fourth, This European championship is NOT just for X-wing. This needs to cover all of FFG's competitive games, meaning you need more halls and more logistical support that has to come from the distributor and venue. Also, players might be playing in multiple events that span days. Players might play in multiple events here that aren't even FFG related.

There are a myriad of factors that go into this and the cost to the player is only one of those. If it really is so outrageous to you, don't go and let them know why and that you would be willing to bring your experience in on the next event. I am sure that they will still get plenty of participation.

Comparing to X-Wing is not laughable, and the logistics of supplying the equipment & mats etc is part of the entry fee and would apply wherever you booked the event. Choosing to book that event in a stupid location at a stupid time that adds hundreds in supplemental cost for flights/hotel/tickets to an event you won't attend... that's the issue.

And I know all about the logistics involved have worked behind the scenes on dozens of major Magic events. It's not laughable to compare a 600 player Magic tournament to a 600 player X-Wing tournament, apart from in the small minds of X-Wing crew and their inferiority complexes. Get over yourself and go and be excellent instead of settling for ****!

Ok number 1, and I am going to bold and underline this for emphases, X-Wing has maybe 1/4 of the Magic player base. Getting 600 people to a magic tournament is relatively simple and most cities can do that without breaking a sweat. This also means there are judges and TOs a plenty as well. X-wing however is more niche and needs the EXPO and distributor direct help with logistics.

Second, X-wing requires about 3 times the physical space of a MtG game. This means that your hall that fit Magic now needs to be 3 times bigger. You need 3 times more table space as well meaning more tables you need to rent.

Third, MtG has been being played competitively for decades at this point. There is a massive tournament structure in place, logistical know how and overall experience. compared to FFG's X-Wing Organized Play, which is 4 years old and this is its FIRST European Championship.

Fourth, This European championship is NOT just for X-wing. This needs to cover all of FFG's competitive games, meaning you need more halls and more logistical support that has to come from the distributor and venue. Also, players might be playing in multiple events that span days. Players might play in multiple events here that aren't even FFG related.

There are a myriad of factors that go into this and the cost to the player is only one of those. If it really is so outrageous to you, don't go and let them know why and that you would be willing to bring your experience in on the next event. I am sure that they will still get plenty of participation.

You assume that everyone involved in X-Wing has zero experience whatsoever organizing large events.

Where?? I pointed out that the experience labor and know how is in England. And pointed out that X-wing and Magic are completely different logistically. I said that organizing X-Wing events has less experience than magic, not that X-Wing has zero?

That's the impression I got from your post "this is the first European Championship and nobody in Germany would know how to do it". It's not like there have been WFB and 40k tournaments in the past, GW Grand Tournaments, ETC and so on... implying that only the Brits have any experience is silly and kinda insulting to all the other large event organizers across Europe.

BTW. it's the first FFG European Championship... we've beeen having European Team Championships for years, hosted in different countries and for all the major miniature games.

That's the impression I got from your post "this is the first European Championship and nobody in Germany would know how to do it". It's not like there have been WFB and 40k tournaments in the past, GW Grand Tournaments, ETC and so on... implying that only the Brits have any experience is silly and kinda insulting to all the other large event organizers across Europe.

BTW. it's the first FFG European Championship... we've beeen having European Team Championships for years, hosted in different countries and for all the major miniature games.

So I think that you are missing one key component. FFG and asmodee use their own staff, supplemented with volunteers, to put these events on. But they plan the event themselves, they don't get the community involved in that.

That's the impression I got from your post "this is the first European Championship and nobody in Germany would know how to do it". It's not like there have been WFB and 40k tournaments in the past, GW Grand Tournaments, ETC and so on... implying that only the Brits have any experience is silly and kinda insulting to all the other large event organizers across Europe.

BTW. it's the first FFG European Championship... we've beeen having European Team Championships for years, hosted in different countries and for all the major miniature games.

Lets be honest here for a moment:

• X-Wing events are trivial to organize, the logistics involved are tame and only the cost for official FFG mats are a factor, but OP should have acquired over the years a good inventory of those and sending them over from the the UK or US to whatever place in europe would be trivial and even using 300 new ones would not be that expensive when you are buying just production costs and shipping.
• Experience of other organizer in europe is completely irrelevant. This is a FFG / Asmodee event, experience from the guys from FFG / Asmodee is what counts. FFG has the experience in the united states, but sending a larger amount of people over to europe would be expensive, you want most of the staff to be at home to cut cost down to a minimum. And in europe current most of the Asmodee experience is focused in the UK. Once the Heidelberger Spieleverlag is fully assimilated into the Asmodee structure they have another organizer team in a more central location.
• This might be the second last chance to host such an event in the UK. The UK might have be leaving the Schengen Area soon and if that happens it would be unreasonable to host an european event in a country which requires border controls and maybe even visa to enter the country. Can't blame them to do it now there, so they can do other countries in later years.

I wouldn't say its tame when you factor in that its one team for ALL the games and ALL their associated OP events worldwide but otherwise yes.

Just so you know: the UK isn't is the Schengen Area anyway so there'll be border controls for anyone travelling in, even from the EU, just no need for a visa.

Just so you know: the UK isn't is the Schengen Area anyway so there'll be border controls for anyone travelling in, even from the EU, just no need for a visa.

Another (minor) minus point for the location, still visa might be coming soon too.

It's not as though the location was chosen at random. The Yavin Open went pretty smoothly last year as far as I could tell, and catered for the 400+ attendees quite comfortably.

I'm guessing the System Open Series last year was used to test possible European locations for viability. I'm also sure if the System Open events in Germany and Spain go smoothly this year, they'll probably be the venues next time around.

Also our European friends should be grateful, considering the precipitous drop in the Pound Sterling after the country's bewildering decision last year. Talk about getting more bang for your Eurobuck.

I just wanna point out that everyone saying the price for the tournament should be included, don't realize that the series open in Oregon requires you to buy a 100 dollar 4 day pass plus the 40 for the tournament...

Another thing is that there's also one of the 3 SOS events hosted there; out of 4 large European X-Wing events, 2 are hosted in the UK.

Another thing is that there's also one of the 3 SOS events hosted there; out of 4 large European X-Wing events, 2 are hosted in the UK.

I don''t know for sure, but my impression is that the majority of European x-wing players are British. So this isn't really all that surprising.

Another thing is that there's also one of the 3 SOS events hosted there; out of 4 large European X-Wing events, 2 are hosted in the UK.

I don''t know for sure, but my impression is that the majority of European x-wing players are British. So this isn't really all that surprising.

Not at all

the majority of the English speaking x-wing players are in the uk ..... but there is a massive French and German community

And from what I've been told it growing in Poland and Holland