Basically shift the focus from PCs and CHARGEN to the GM and campaign construction/support.

As soon as FFG does that, they essentially kill the line, because no players will be buying any of the new books. They’d cut the potential market by an order of magnitude for all further books.

Whatever FFG is likely to do, I think they need to keep the market broad and appeal to everyone, and not just the GMs or just the PCs. Anything else is likely to just wind up killing this franchise sooner rather than later.

The players who would not be buying the books are the ones who are already not buying the books. Most of the people who are currently buying would keep buying. Making the game easier for GMs increases the base. Player books do the opposite.

The adventure books have much lower sales than the career books.

The adventure books are aimed almost exclusively at GMs, while the career books are aimed more towards PCs and the group as a whole.

Therefore, the presumption is that if FFG switches to producing books that are exclusively aimed at just GMs, then they won’t have enough sales to support the franchise and they’ll lose it.

In the groups I’ve been in, I’ve been the primary guy that ends up buying all the books — partly because I can, and partly because I’m a completist. But a lot of people can’t afford that. A lot of groups have trouble getting together enough money to buy one copy of most of the books.

A lot of guys who might be willing and able to be the GM, can’t or won’t do so because they can’t afford to have copies of most of the books.

If FFG is going to be able to continue to sustain their business in this space, they have to continue to appeal to a sufficiently broad variety of potential book buyers. Producing books only for the GMs who can afford to buy them won’t be enough.

The players who would not be buying the books are the ones who are already not buying the books.

Players don’t tend to buy books oriented towards GMs, regardless.

Most of the people who are currently buying would keep buying.

Only if the books being produced would be of interest to them. GM-oriented books don’t tend to be interesting to players. Player-only books wouldn’t be of much interest to most GMs. If FFG produces mainly books that have bits and pieces for everyone, then they have access to the broadest potential market.

Making the game easier for GMs increases the base. Player books do the opposite.

I agree that the game could be made easier for the GMs. There are a variety of ways to do that, some of which are more expensive than others.

Making lots more GM-only books would be the most expensive way to do that, and would increase the production costs without significantly increasing the potential for profit from the sales of the books. That would be a money-losing venture.

The adventure books have much lower sales than the career books.

And I imagine they'd be even lower if they didn't have new weapons, vehicles, attachments, etc. embedded in them.

Besides, it would not be all that hard to make the game back compatable.

They could produce printed errata that would clarify the older readings, or provide alternative rules that could be used in certain circumstances. That would not necessarily invalidate the ongoing 1st edition books that they’re currently trying to put out for AoR and F&D, while also potentially extending the life of EotE.

But they’d have to be careful how they do that, and they’d have to be careful about the printing of new books so that they can be used with both the original printings as well as the enhanced rules.

SECOND EDITION!

With a real vehicle/starfighter/capitol ship system that makes sense!

With tweaks to soak/damage so you cant become immune to blaster pistols!

With tweaks to talents so the Doctor isnt the most devastating hand to hand character in the game!

Yeah a second edition could work if they fix the space combat rules. I would like them to rework the cover/armor rules too.

Some era books would be awesome too. The Old Republic, Legacy to name a few.

Personally, I doubt we'll ever see something specifically called "2nd edition," but rather something more along the lines of WEG's post-2nd Ed "Revised and Expanded" CRB. I don't have a strong enough gut feeling to say if I think it would be the three separate line CRB's, or a unified "Star Wars Roleplaying Core Rulebook - Revised and Expanded." I can see benefits to both approaches.

I wouldn't foresee any dramatic changes to how character stats, info, skills, etc. are presented...same with equipment and vehicle presentation. (That's something that WEG did very smartly - those types of numbers could be pulled from 1E, 2E, or R&E and used interchangably...I'd predict the same here.) Where I'd imagine changes would come into play would be a touch-up of the rules, now that all three lines are available, clearing up inconsistencies, taking another pass at space combat (while still using the existing ship/weapon stat structure). All still working together, allowing for the continued production of the existing supplements as-is.

IF the "Revised and Expanded" version took the form of a single book under a "Star Wars Roleplaying" banner, to help reduce page count, either something would have to go, or we'd be looking at a bigger book to include ALL of the Specializations for the three CRB's. But, that could allow for, say, "Fly Casual - Revised and Expanded" that would include all six Smuggler Specializations.

A "Revised and Expanded" release would also be the perfect opportunity to introduce, for example, a sequel trilogy sourcebook, as the timing for such an R&E release (If we assume it would happen after completion of the "First Edition" lines of EotE, AoR, and FaD), because at the very least, Episode 8 will be out, providing additional material to include. That's when I'd also expect something like an AoR Rogue One supplement. (C'mon...we all know it would be titled "Built on Hope.") I'd see it less focusing on the specifics of the movie's plot, but be a Strongholds of Resistance-type book, providing some structure on the Alliance, and including the worlds, vehicles, and equipment introduced in the movie (assuming, of course, the hardware and/or locations don't make it into any of the already-pending AoR books).

SECOND EDITION!

With a real vehicle/starfighter/capitol ship system that makes sense!

With tweaks to soak/damage so you cant become immune to blaster pistols!

With tweaks to talents so the Doctor isnt the most devastating hand to hand character in the game!

I don’t think that’s going to happen. As soon as FFG starts shipping 2nd edition books, that immediately makes obsolete all the 1st edition books, and they’re nowhere near done yet with 1st edition of AoR and F&D.

What you WANT to happen does not necessarily have any relationship whatsoever with what FFG is actually likely to do — with EotE, or anything else.

Second Edition Dark Heresy.

Besides, it would not be all that hard to make the game back compatable.

Not sure about anybody else but I tend to find I get bogged down in the books & it's almost counter-productive to my own creativity!

Don't get me wrong I love pretty much everything that FFG have produced for the Star Wars line & I've bought a good number... All 3 cores, 4 career book,all of the setting books! And I'll no doubt buy more... But I'm thinking it'd have been better just sticking with the core books!

I would be absolutely astonished if there wasn't a shift to cover the new movies. I don't really want this, but every other Star Wars line FFG produces has had this. Disney is pushing this hard. I think there are ways they can do it without a 2nd edition, but a 2nd edition wouldn't surprise me either. The game's been out 4 years this year, and that's about normal for a 2nd edition (Games Workshop brings out new editions on a 2 year cycle) . As Nytwyng mentions, I don't think they will come out and call it that, though.

The chances of having an Era book are zero. Disney won't accept any focus outside the movies and cartoons. It will be cool but it simply won't happen outside fan-made efforts.

Finally, while they have screen time, Jawas and Sandpeople would make for unlikely PCs, given they can't speak Basic and their cultures are extremely insular, given that individuals never leave their people. That doesn't mean we won't see them though - FFG have to run out of background cantina/skiff species eventually.

SECOND EDITION!

With a real vehicle/starfighter/capitol ship system that makes sense!

With tweaks to soak/damage so you cant become immune to blaster pistols!

With tweaks to talents so the Doctor isnt the most devastating hand to hand character in the game!

That also follows canon and restats all the things that have changed since printing.

Also Bith stats... forget about jawas, we need the Bith. Cantinas everwhere in the galaxy (according to old video games and fan films) rocked out to the musical stylings of the Modal Nodes.

Not sure about anybody else but I tend to find I get bogged down in the books & it's almost counter-productive to my own creativity!

Don't get me wrong I love pretty much everything that FFG have produced for the Star Wars line & I've bought a good number... All 3 cores, 4 career book,all of the setting books! And I'll no doubt buy more... But I'm thinking it'd have been better just sticking with the core books!

When I first floated the idea of swithing from Dark Heresy 1st to FFG's Star Wars I intentionally stated I was concerned about supplement bloat, and said I'd most likely adhere to the core rules and possibly some published adventures. Nearly three years later, my players have purchased many, if not all of the spec supplements while I only own one (it was mistakenly bought by a player who already had it so he gave it to me). I own only the EotE and FaD cores, LoNH, SoF, and all the EotE published adventures (and Fly Casual), and it's been enough for me.

The adventure books have much lower sales than the career books.

The adventure books are aimed almost exclusively at GMs, while the career books are aimed more towards PCs and the group as a whole.

Therefore, the presumption is that if FFG switches to producing books that are exclusively aimed at just GMs, then they won’t have enough sales to support the franchise and they’ll lose it.

In the groups I’ve been in, I’ve been the primary guy that ends up buying all the books — partly because I can, and partly because I’m a completist. But a lot of people can’t afford that. A lot of groups have trouble getting together enough money to buy one copy of most of the books.

A lot of guys who might be willing and able to be the GM, can’t or won’t do so because they can’t afford to have copies of most of the books.

If FFG is going to be able to continue to sustain their business in this space, they have to continue to appeal to a sufficiently broad variety of potential book buyers. Producing books only for the GMs who can afford to buy them won’t be enough.

I'm trying to get all the EoTE and F&D books because 1) I missed WEG d6 and TBH when I looked at SW d20 I vomited in my pants, from my anus... I really thought it was awful and 2) Want to collect a decent set of books. Past experience has shown you do not know what the future holds (unless you're a Jedi) and although I doubt I'll stop rp'ing with my current group it could happen - although I doubt it, we all seem quite sedentary and well rooted.

WEG produced stuff for twelve years and WoTC for 10 give or take a few months. FFG started in 2012, we've had 4 years so far, so we may only have another 6 years left. We have no idea how long FFG have got the IP contract for....

I try not to think about it. The written adventures are what I'm catching up on. I'm thinking get splat by preordering and just get prewritten ad's when possible.

This topic has reared it's head in my current gaming group. We have official forums at the moment and there's enough places to connect once it's not supported. Once FFG make the announcement of the all three lines stopping I'll start looking for fan forums etc.

As for now I'm enjoying the ride.... You don't have to be mad to be here, but it helps. We're all like minded and so far, fingers crossed it has been the best forum I've joined, some have got down right nasty,pedantic or toxic that I just stopped logging on. OK there's been a few locked posts but on the whole, most of us on here seem well grounded (except me, I'm actually locked in a padded cell, with a padded laptop, with a shatter proof screen and unbreakable hinges - when I get out I'm straight down the sports shop for a hockey mask and a gardening store to buy a chainsaw. BTW, where's the nearest Summer Camp? Those teenagers are going to pay for what they did last summer on Elm Street on Friday 13th )

I have zero insight into how FFG/Asmodee has structured its licensing agreement with Disney but somehow I doubt Disney cares about the line-by-line breakdowns of the Star Wars board games. If every Star Wars game license was dependent on every game turning a profit, rather than the license itself turning a profit, no company could hold onto a license. I suspect as long as the game license is meeting profit expectations, FFG is free to develop how it sees fit. Meaning, FFG doesn't have to jump on an RPG supplement treadmill and continue to churn out books so long as the company puts out new X-Wing/Armada/Imperial Assault miniature sets, play mats, card games, and board game expansions.

To be perfectly blunt, a second edition would infuriate me. No RPG rule set is perfect. However, the SW RPG is one of the tightest sets of rules I've ever used in any game, and I've played a lot of different games. The line developers have had plenty of time with and experience with distilling down and correcting the issues with the Warhammer Fantasy RPG and WH40K RPG rules in order to make them work with Star Wars . The complaints I see about the SW RPG rules seem to fall on the side of play style preference (typical grognardism), rather than the math errors and mechanical imbalances that popped up in the incredibly fiddly WEG and D20/Saga versions. The candy coating of having a narrative-based game, as opposed to a trad D20/OGL-style simulationist-game, is that the rules are deliberately looser which gives a lot of flex in play.

If the EotE line wrapped with the Bounty Hunter career book, that would be a bummer, but I could live with it. That said, not developing a Corporate Sector setting book (Captains of Industry!) and/or a shadowports setting book (Ports of Shadows!) seems like it's just leaving money on the table when you have the third/fourth-most-popular RPG on the market. If FFG can making a profit on selling prewritten adventures, they should continue to do so. If they're not worth the effort, I'm okay with that too. I bet paying for 4-color art for a book only a GM is going to see is a killer.

Three canned adventures is enough to show GMs how the game is intended to function.

Me, above and beyond the Location books, I'd still like to see a couple of Gear books, some vehicle books and the like. It'd be a tough act to balance the new material vs the reprinted material, to satisfy the "I gotta buy a book with 40% old stuff to get all this new stuff" crowd vs the "Why do they put all this old crap in here!" crowd - but I think the clever marketing gurus at FFG could figure something out.

It seems to me the biggest chunk of the game that the most people seem to agree needs work is Space/vehicle combat. So rather than a full on second edition I think a revised vehicle combat book with new rules and new vehicles and related gear that also collected and reprinted existing vehicles/gear with the updated rules would be great. Assuming this is enough in the future that the three lines have pretty much all wrapped up their career books I'd personally like to see updates/collections like the one I'm suggesting as a 'universal' book. But since that seems unlikely I'd still settle for a chopped up version.

The game's been out 4 years this year, and that's about normal for a 2nd edition (Games Workshop brings out new editions on a 2 year cycle)

While, GW has brought out new editions regularly (and it is more of a 4 year cycle), the sales of both the new rules and models have suffered tremendously. Between people being tired of the rules churn for no other reason than to sell a new $100 book or $200 starter set that you will use at most 50% of the contents, the customary 120% inflation on prices every year, and the general increase in power of the latest army people are leaving the GW brand in favor of other companies.

So, I would not hold them up as the champion for why you should change editions without good reason.

As for the new movies, that is nothing that could not be accomplished with a Episode 7 to 9 setting book. .

I would be absolutely astonished if there wasn't a shift to cover the new movies. I don't really want this, but every other Star Wars line FFG produces has had this. Disney is pushing this hard. I think there are ways they can do it without a 2nd edition, but a 2nd edition wouldn't surprise me either. The game's been out 4 years this year, and that's about normal for a 2nd edition (Games Workshop brings out new editions on a 2 year cycle) . As Nytwyng mentions, I don't think they will come out and call it that, though.

The chances of having an Era book are zero. Disney won't accept any focus outside the movies and cartoons. It will be cool but it simply won't happen outside fan-made efforts.

Finally, while they have screen time, Jawas and Sandpeople would make for unlikely PCs, given they can't speak Basic and their cultures are extremely insular, given that individuals never leave their people. That doesn't mean we won't see them though - FFG have to run out of background cantina/skiff species eventually.

Which is one of the reasons I have trouble with Disney. You have to fight for creativity.

I'm hoping for more sector books though a general shadowports book would be cool. I don't think its necessary but maybe a adventure with a branching path and at least one branch sets parties up to go from EOE to joining the Alliance

There are plenty of species thus far that don't have the ability to speak basic. Wookiees come to mind, as do Polis Massaan (not sure about Verpine?) plus the language boxed tekst in the CRB clearly takes care of any of those concerns.

Since it is firmly established that Owen and Luke can communicate easily with Jawa, and that adventurers often are outcasts or special snowflakes (Gand, Verpine, etc.) if they come from insular cultures I see absolutely no reason why they couldn't be included.

While the ability to speak Basic isn't a necessity for being a player character species, being part of a space-going civilization is. Jawa tech as presented on the screen is equivalent to real-life late-20th/early-21st century and Tusken Raiders are essentially stone age hunter-gatherers. Like Ewoks, it would make them incredibly awkward to work into the system, mechanically, as its assumed that every player character in FFG SW can fly a ship from Point A to Point B, shoot a blaster, etc.

It seems to me the biggest chunk of the game that the most people seem to agree needs work is Space/vehicle combat. So rather than a full on second edition I think a revised vehicle combat book with new rules and new vehicles and related gear that also collected and reprinted existing vehicles/gear with the updated rules would be great. Assuming this is enough in the future that the three lines have pretty much all wrapped up their career books I'd personally like to see updates/collections like the one I'm suggesting as a 'universal' book. But since that seems unlikely I'd still settle for a chopped up version.

I haven't found anything mechanically in vehicle combat that is out of kilter. What does need work is how that information is provided in the Core Rule Books. The lack of clear combat examples in the books is what leads to confusion but the answers for how they should work is out there in the form of Order 66 podcasts and these forums. That could be cleared up with a revised printing rather than a complete second edition. Or a little example booklet that gets included as part of a shrink-wrapped package.

The game's been out 4 years this year, and that's about normal for a 2nd edition (Games Workshop brings out new editions on a 2 year cycle)

While, GW has brought out new editions regularly (and it is more of a 4 year cycle), the sales of both the new rules and models have suffered tremendously. Between people being tired of the rules churn for no other reason than to sell a new $100 book or $200 starter set that you will use at most 50% of the contents, the customary 120% inflation on prices every year, and the general increase in power of the latest army people are leaving the GW brand in favor of other companies.

So, I would not hold them up as the champion for why you should change editions without good reason.

As for the new movies, that is nothing that could not be accomplished with a Episode 7 to 9 setting book. .

To add to this very good point, GW is a wargame as well, RPGs tend to have a longer shelf life.

There are plenty of species thus far that don't have the ability to speak basic. Wookiees come to mind, as do Polis Massaan (not sure about Verpine?) plus the language boxed tekst in the CRB clearly takes care of any of those concerns.

Since it is firmly established that Owen and Luke can communicate easily with Jawa, and that adventurers often are outcasts or special snowflakes (Gand, Verpine, etc.) if they come from insular cultures I see absolutely no reason why they couldn't be included.

While the ability to speak Basic isn't a necessity for being a player character species, being part of a space-going civilization is. Jawa tech as presented on the screen is equivalent to real-life late-20th/early-21st century and Tusken Raiders are essentially stone age hunter-gatherers. Like Ewoks, it would make them incredibly awkward to work into the system, mechanically, as its assumed that every player character in FFG SW can fly a ship from Point A to Point B, shoot a blaster, etc..

Nope.

There are technologically underdeveloped playable races in the RPG and even then Jawas have branched out to other planets in FFG's own materials. They even fly skiffs on Raxus Prime in Beyond the Rim.

I am not a proponent of Sand People as a playable race though.

Why not? There was a jedi who was a sand people. Well, half. Possibly not at all.

They'd at least have to have that Primitive species ability.

Why not? There was a jedi who was a sand people. Well, half. Possibly not at all.

They'd at least have to have that Primitive species ability.

Wasn't he a human who was adopted into the tribe?