I merely pointed out that there is a lot of hypocrisy on the pro-flotilla side of this debate. I asked a simple question...if FFG states flotillas get treated more like squadrons than ships (since they are more like squadrons than ships) and therefore can no longer have commanders attached to them, would the pro-flotilla community stand by their statement of "that's the way it is, suck it up" or would they take to the forums full of autistic screeching like some are now in defense of the tactic.

I don't care either way. As mentioned, my 61 points are worth killing their 50-60 points.

I've seen several of your posts now where you take digs at very specific groups of people. First millenials, and now people with autism. I would appreciate it very much if you DIDN'T take jabs at people who don't agree with you, and instead stick to the topics at hand, which happen to be a Star Wars space ships GAME. Why discussing a game makes you feel the need to ridicule people is beyond me...

No, I don't feel it odd. -Ears ringing-

-summons up his best Arabic voice- You are a great liar, and I shall fight you because you are a liar!

Sometimes I wonder about that Undeadguy, I hope we're going to get some new titles. Chimaera and the like being there too. Not that I know what Majestic would be, it was more or less palpy's taxi that got stopped and he got hauled out by his robes. Still be nice to see.

No, I don't feel it odd. -Ears ringing-

-summons up his best Arabic voice- You are a great liar, and I shall fight you because you are a liar!

Sometimes I wonder about that Undeadguy, I hope we're going to get some new titles. Chimaera and the like being there too. Not that I know what Majestic would be, it was more or less palpy's taxi that got stopped and he got hauled out by his robes. Still be nice to see.

I hope FFG does another campaign and adds at least 1 new title to each ship. Another ship variant would be cool as well. Love to see new shields on the Neb or a faster Vic. Something to spice up the older ships.

I could see that, it's certainly a way to change the variants, spice stuff up and add in a similar nature to CC's fighter squadrons. Maybe that could give us a few little fixes along the way. Even non-unique titles like X-wing's corrections. As for flotillas... still waiting for some combat ones to come along. Then I might not hate the current paradigm as much (it's about the fact that they're weak, poorly armed, unsuited to having the communications equipment necessary, and generally unsuitable as a flagship. You can't really turn a rowboat into a first class speedboat without fundamentally altering everything about it).

I merely pointed out that there is a lot of hypocrisy on the pro-flotilla side of this debate. I asked a simple question...if FFG states flotillas get treated more like squadrons than ships (since they are more like squadrons than ships) and therefore can no longer have commanders attached to them, would the pro-flotilla community stand by their statement of "that's the way it is, suck it up" or would they take to the forums full of autistic screeching like some are now in defense of the tactic.

I don't care either way. As mentioned, my 61 points are worth killing their 50-60 points.

The question is mostly irrelevant, and here, is framed offensively.

And yet, telling people that's the way it is and to suck it up isn't. The hypocrisy is beautiful. Obviously not you specifically. Maybe not take things so personally. If you can't scroll through this post and see the aggression of the pro-flotilla argument then we're not reading the same posts.

Well, there's being told to suck it up over a game, and there's making fun of autistic children. If you don't see the difference there, you're a **** and have lost all perspective.

To be fair, Sygnetix never made fun of the autistic, and the only one talking about children was yourself, pyqz. Everything else was an assumption. Not that I presume to know how he meant it.

Beyond that, it's just the same cycle of "Suck it up, don't tell me what to think" vs. "Don't tell me what to think, suck it up!"

Wow do these conversations go downhill fast. I blame Ben.

I can't wait for breakfast. I'm off to make Belgian waffles and drown them in maple syrup and strawberries.

Totally casual player here (in no small part because "competitive play" would require at least a 45 minute drive), but we have a gentlemen's agreement not to do it because it "doesn't feel like Star Wars" to us. Not in a "this could/would never happen, so it's just cheesey gamism" way, but just a "this feels off from the Star Wars we know and love and play this game to emulate". It's certainly not the only thing like that for us, either - clusters of Firesprays or YT-transports also just "feel off", and get avoided (for the most part).

But yeah, that's totally just my little group of players. I wouldn't expect people to not do it for actual competitive play - as folks have said, I expect people to use every advantage they can.

It is the kind of thing that I assume, like "abusing" door control in the old Star Wars Miniatures game, will be "dealt with" by future (or wave 5) additions to the game.

My takeaway from reading 8 pages of this is:

At least people aren't still bit@#!n about Demo being OP.

My takeaway from reading 8 pages of this is:

At least people aren't still bit@#!n about Demo being OP.

Demo does need a nerf...

Did I hear someone say "pro-Flotilla argument"? I have to ask what do you mean by that? That saying the rules are what they are and that FFG brought into the game a new element that by looking at the facts, and not anecdotal stories, is a balanced tool that is available to everyone is a "Pro-Flotilla" stance and that is being aggressive?

Am I misreading that? Because even though some have been rude that doesn't sound like what I've been reading mostly or saying myself.

Scrolling through 6 pages, I've come up with the following:

This is an hot topic.

People like to argue.

What I find most shocking is how happy people are to use Earth bound tactics and ships as validation for this strategy. Have you no imagination or are you just determined to validate your opinion by any means necessary?

I'm not debating that, in Star Wars (the ENTIRE premise of Armada), leaders ride is small ships. Fast ships. Maneuverable ships. Kind of like Lando in RotJ.

They don't ride in bulk freighters. That's the real world equal to riding in a semi truck....in the middle of a tank battle......

So your entire premise is that Star wars fans are right, and miniature wargamers who happen to be flying star wars ships shall not exist?

What? If you want to take it that personally, then sure. Stop existing.

This is a good read and there are some interesting discussions here. I do love the arguement for a rule change is because someone is getting 9-1 victory instead of a 10-0

Scrolling through 6 pages, I've come up with the following:

This is an hot topic.

People like to argue.

What I find most shocking is how happy people are to use Earth bound tactics and ships as validation for this strategy. Have you no imagination or are you just determined to validate your opinion by any means necessary?

I'm not debating that, in Star Wars (the ENTIRE premise of Armada), leaders ride is small ships. Fast ships. Maneuverable ships. Kind of like Lando in RotJ.

They don't ride in bulk freighters. That's the real world equal to riding in a semi truck....in the middle of a tank battle......

So your entire premise is that Star wars fans are right, and miniature wargamers who happen to be flying star wars ships shall not exist?

What? If you want to take it that personally, then sure. Stop existing.

To be fair, while we do see General Calrissian in the Millennium Falcon, he's not in command of the Rebel Fleet. He's in command of only Red and Gold Group, the fighter wings responsible for leading the attack through the Death Star's super structure. Admiral Ackbar is in charge of the Rebel Fleet, and as you recall he's on Home One, the largest ship that has ever graced the Rebel Alliance or the Resistance.

General Merrick in Rogue One is a General, true, but he's again only in command of the Fighter Groups. Once he enters the planet through the gate, Raddus takes over coordination of Red and Gold Group from Merrick. Also note that it is Raddus who is in control of the ships of the fleet, and he's stationed aboard the largest ship the Rebels have: the Profundity.

Admiral Ozzel and Admiral Piett and Darth Vader all command from the Executor. Isard and Thrawn and Zsinji also commanded from SSDs. General Grievous commands from the Malevolence, the largest cruiser in the CIS fleet (aside from the Droid Control Ships, which Nute Gunray commanded from). Sato commands from Phoenix Home, the largest capital ship that is a part of his available task force.

We literally never see a canon example in Star Wars of a fleet commander commanding from anything other than their largest available flagships. Which makes sense, commanders don't have a bird's eye view of perfect knowledge like we, the player standing above the table, does. A commander needs data and information about the battlefield to be able to then relay commands to his forces. This requires both extensive visualization equipment (scanners, scopes, projectors, etc.) as well as communication equipment (comms relays). The effectiveness of these kinds of equipment scales with size. The amount of scanners and scopes and relays one could fit into a school bus is a lot less than what could be installed aboard an aircraft carrier. Look at how much equipment and how many people were involved in coordinating just the two fighter squadrons at Yavin IV. That war room and all of its officers alone far outstripped what could be squeezed aboard a GR75.

Scrolling through 6 pages, I've come up with the following:

This is an hot topic.

People like to argue.

What I find most shocking is how happy people are to use Earth bound tactics and ships as validation for this strategy. Have you no imagination or are you just determined to validate your opinion by any means necessary?

I'm not debating that, in Star Wars (the ENTIRE premise of Armada), leaders ride is small ships. Fast ships. Maneuverable ships. Kind of like Lando in RotJ.

They don't ride in bulk freighters. That's the real world equal to riding in a semi truck....in the middle of a tank battle......

So your entire premise is that Star wars fans are right, and miniature wargamers who happen to be flying star wars ships shall not exist?

What? If you want to take it that personally, then sure. Stop existing.

To be fair, while we do see General Calrissian in the Millennium Falcon, he's not in command of the Rebel Fleet. He's in command of only Red and Gold Group, the fighter wings responsible for leading the attack through the Death Star's super structure. Admiral Ackbar is in charge of the Rebel Fleet, and as you recall he's on Home One, the largest ship that has ever graced the Rebel Alliance or the Resistance.

General Merrick in Rogue One is a General, true, but he's again only in command of the Fighter Groups. Once he enters the planet through the gate, Raddus takes over coordination of Red and Gold Group from Merrick. Also note that it is Raddus who is in control of the ships of the fleet, and he's stationed aboard the largest ship the Rebels have: the Profundity.

Admiral Ozzel and Admiral Piett and Darth Vader all command from the Executor. Isard and Thrawn and Zsinji also commanded from SSDs. General Grievous commands from the Malevolence, the largest cruiser in the CIS fleet (aside from the Droid Control Ships, which Nute Gunray commanded from). Sato commands from Phoenix Home, the largest capital ship that is a part of his available task force.

We literally never see a canon example in Star Wars of a fleet commander commanding from anything other than their largest available flagships. Which makes sense, commanders don't have a bird's eye view of perfect knowledge like we, the player standing above the table, does. A commander needs data and information about the battlefield to be able to then relay commands to his forces. This requires both extensive visualization equipment (scanners, scopes, projectors, etc.) as well as communication equipment (comms relays). The effectiveness of these kinds of equipment scales with size. The amount of scanners and scopes and relays one could fit into a school bus is a lot less than what could be installed aboard an aircraft carrier. Look at how much equipment and how many people were involved in coordinating just the two fighter squadrons at Yavin IV. That war room and all of its officers alone far outstripped what could be squeezed aboard a GR75.

Scrolling through 6 pages, I've come up with the following:

This is an hot topic.

People like to argue.

What I find most shocking is how happy people are to use Earth bound tactics and ships as validation for this strategy. Have you no imagination or are you just determined to validate your opinion by any means necessary?

I'm not debating that, in Star Wars (the ENTIRE premise of Armada), leaders ride is small ships. Fast ships. Maneuverable ships. Kind of like Lando in RotJ.

They don't ride in bulk freighters. That's the real world equal to riding in a semi truck....in the middle of a tank battle......

So your entire premise is that Star wars fans are right, and miniature wargamers who happen to be flying star wars ships shall not exist?

What? If you want to take it that personally, then sure. Stop existing.

To be fair, while we do see General Calrissian in the Millennium Falcon, he's not in command of the Rebel Fleet. He's in command of only Red and Gold Group, the fighter wings responsible for leading the attack through the Death Star's super structure. Admiral Ackbar is in charge of the Rebel Fleet, and as you recall he's on Home One, the largest ship that has ever graced the Rebel Alliance or the Resistance.

General Merrick in Rogue One is a General, true, but he's again only in command of the Fighter Groups. Once he enters the planet through the gate, Raddus takes over coordination of Red and Gold Group from Merrick. Also note that it is Raddus who is in control of the ships of the fleet, and he's stationed aboard the largest ship the Rebels have: the Profundity.

Admiral Ozzel and Admiral Piett and Darth Vader all command from the Executor. Isard and Thrawn and Zsinji also commanded from SSDs. General Grievous commands from the Malevolence, the largest cruiser in the CIS fleet (aside from the Droid Control Ships, which Nute Gunray commanded from). Sato commands from Phoenix Home, the largest capital ship that is a part of his available task force.

We literally never see a canon example in Star Wars of a fleet commander commanding from anything other than their largest available flagships. Which makes sense, commanders don't have a bird's eye view of perfect knowledge like we, the player standing above the table, does. A commander needs data and information about the battlefield to be able to then relay commands to his forces. This requires both extensive visualization equipment (scanners, scopes, projectors, etc.) as well as communication equipment (comms relays). The effectiveness of these kinds of equipment scales with size. The amount of scanners and scopes and relays one could fit into a school bus is a lot less than what could be installed aboard an aircraft carrier. Look at how much equipment and how many people were involved in coordinating just the two fighter squadrons at Yavin IV. That war room and all of its officers alone far outstripped what could be squeezed aboard a GR75.

Well said.

Scrolling through 6 pages, I've come up with the following:

This is an hot topic.

People like to argue.

What I find most shocking is how happy people are to use Earth bound tactics and ships as validation for this strategy. Have you no imagination or are you just determined to validate your opinion by any means necessary?

I'm not debating that, in Star Wars (the ENTIRE premise of Armada), leaders ride is small ships. Fast ships. Maneuverable ships. Kind of like Lando in RotJ.

They don't ride in bulk freighters. That's the real world equal to riding in a semi truck....in the middle of a tank battle......

So your entire premise is that Star wars fans are right, and miniature wargamers who happen to be flying star wars ships shall not exist?

What? If you want to take it that personally, then sure. Stop existing.

To be fair, while we do see General Calrissian in the Millennium Falcon, he's not in command of the Rebel Fleet. He's in command of only Red and Gold Group, the fighter wings responsible for leading the attack through the Death Star's super structure. Admiral Ackbar is in charge of the Rebel Fleet, and as you recall he's on Home One, the largest ship that has ever graced the Rebel Alliance or the Resistance.

General Merrick in Rogue One is a General, true, but he's again only in command of the Fighter Groups. Once he enters the planet through the gate, Raddus takes over coordination of Red and Gold Group from Merrick. Also note that it is Raddus who is in control of the ships of the fleet, and he's stationed aboard the largest ship the Rebels have: the Profundity.

Admiral Ozzel and Admiral Piett and Darth Vader all command from the Executor. Isard and Thrawn and Zsinji also commanded from SSDs. General Grievous commands from the Malevolence, the largest cruiser in the CIS fleet (aside from the Droid Control Ships, which Nute Gunray commanded from). Sato commands from Phoenix Home, the largest capital ship that is a part of his available task force.

We literally never see a canon example in Star Wars of a fleet commander commanding from anything other than their largest available flagships. Which makes sense, commanders don't have a bird's eye view of perfect knowledge like we, the player standing above the table, does. A commander needs data and information about the battlefield to be able to then relay commands to his forces. This requires both extensive visualization equipment (scanners, scopes, projectors, etc.) as well as communication equipment (comms relays). The effectiveness of these kinds of equipment scales with size. The amount of scanners and scopes and relays one could fit into a school bus is a lot less than what could be installed aboard an aircraft carrier. Look at how much equipment and how many people were involved in coordinating just the two fighter squadrons at Yavin IV. That war room and all of its officers alone far outstripped what could be squeezed aboard a GR75.

Exactly. I really hope for an errata or general rules change that disables the flotilla units from carrying the admiral/fleet commander unless they are the only ships, or unless there is a mission or some such. The command and control capabilities of a GR75 or Gozanti are unlikely to approach that of an MC80, or VSD/ISD, or even, honestly, a CR90...

Scrolling through 6 pages, I've come up with the following:

This is an hot topic.

People like to argue.

What I find most shocking is how happy people are to use Earth bound tactics and ships as validation for this strategy. Have you no imagination or are you just determined to validate your opinion by any means necessary?

I'm not debating that, in Star Wars (the ENTIRE premise of Armada), leaders ride is small ships. Fast ships. Maneuverable ships. Kind of like Lando in RotJ.

They don't ride in bulk freighters. That's the real world equal to riding in a semi truck....in the middle of a tank battle......

So your entire premise is that Star wars fans are right, and miniature wargamers who happen to be flying star wars ships shall not exist?

What? If you want to take it that personally, then sure. Stop existing.

To be fair, while we do see General Calrissian in the Millennium Falcon, he's not in command of the Rebel Fleet. He's in command of only Red and Gold Group, the fighter wings responsible for leading the attack through the Death Star's super structure. Admiral Ackbar is in charge of the Rebel Fleet, and as you recall he's on Home One, the largest ship that has ever graced the Rebel Alliance or the Resistance.

General Merrick in Rogue One is a General, true, but he's again only in command of the Fighter Groups. Once he enters the planet through the gate, Raddus takes over coordination of Red and Gold Group from Merrick. Also note that it is Raddus who is in control of the ships of the fleet, and he's stationed aboard the largest ship the Rebels have: the Profundity.

Admiral Ozzel and Admiral Piett and Darth Vader all command from the Executor. Isard and Thrawn and Zsinji also commanded from SSDs. General Grievous commands from the Malevolence, the largest cruiser in the CIS fleet (aside from the Droid Control Ships, which Nute Gunray commanded from). Sato commands from Phoenix Home, the largest capital ship that is a part of his available task force.

We literally never see a canon example in Star Wars of a fleet commander commanding from anything other than their largest available flagships. Which makes sense, commanders don't have a bird's eye view of perfect knowledge like we, the player standing above the table, does. A commander needs data and information about the battlefield to be able to then relay commands to his forces. This requires both extensive visualization equipment (scanners, scopes, projectors, etc.) as well as communication equipment (comms relays). The effectiveness of these kinds of equipment scales with size. The amount of scanners and scopes and relays one could fit into a school bus is a lot less than what could be installed aboard an aircraft carrier. Look at how much equipment and how many people were involved in coordinating just the two fighter squadrons at Yavin IV. That war room and all of its officers alone far outstripped what could be squeezed aboard a GR75.

It's a good thing canon doesn't dictate the rules huh

It's a good thing canon doesn't dictate the rules huh

No, not really.

Canon should always dictate the rules in a game like Armada.

Not ALWAYS because then only Vader could kill Ozzel, and Han would one-shot Howlrunner AND Mithel, with one attack!

But the floatilla as cnc is kinda silly.

It's a good thing canon doesn't dictate the rules huh

And as you've made clear you hate everything Star wars... Except Armada I guess... I don't know why you stick to it, I mean, don't you get angry that theme is keeping you from running both imps AND rebels in the same list!?

Well this is clearly a hot topic haha.

Having read through most of this I will say this. Yes it is legal and in the rules. However it doesn't really jive with the whole idea of Armada and how fleets of any kind have been shown to work. In other words its not very sportsmanlike to be frank. I know, MUH COMPETITIVE, MUH RULEBOOK, and you are totally right but that doesn't make it sporting. I am not saying put your commander on your biggest most decked out ship. I am saying don't put it on a Ford-350 Superduty in space.

To the people reeeeeing about canon, chill. I agree that it kind of betrays the spirit of the game but I feel the same way about people who drop the cash to bring like 6 or 7 YT-2400s. Not what was intended I believe but it is perfectly legal. The difference with me is that I will argue flotillas really shouldn't be allowed to be flaghsips, especially considering the model itself is two ships and the silliness of it. Two flagships lol.

Just my two cents on the matter.

It's a good thing canon doesn't dictate the rules huh

No, not really.

Canon should always dictate the rules in a game like Armada.

Ah, no.

I think this is a great point where the campaign can bridge the gap between these two mindsets. In tournaments, I often have my commander on a lifeboat to spread out points and make sure my opponent pays for trying to hunt down the flotilla. But in the campaign? Screw it, he or she is going on my most expensive ship. Because in the campaign you're not worried about min-maxing your MOV, you can take some risks for the sake of thematic play.

It's a good thing canon doesn't dictate the rules huh

No, not really.Canon should always dictate the rules in a game like Armada.

You do realize that there are a ton of things in the game that aren't in the canon right? Like they just added Corran Horn