Thoughts on these ideas for Rebel Veterans?

B-wing/X7 Title - B-wing only - Your upgrade bar loses the cannon and torpedo icons. Increase your ship agility value by 1 and treat all 3 and 4 speed manuevers as white. Squad cost of 2.

B-wing/D Title - B-wing only - Once per round, after you perform an attack with a Cannon secondary weapon, you may perform a primary weapon attack. Squad cost of 3.

Thoughts on these ideas for Rebel Veterans?

B-wing/X7 Title - B-wing only - Your upgrade bar loses the cannon and torpedo icons. Increase your ship agility value by 1 and treat all 3 and 4 speed manuevers as white. Squad cost of 2.

B-wing/D Title - B-wing only - Once per round, after you perform an attack with a Cannon secondary weapon, you may perform a primary weapon attack. Squad cost of 3.

I feel like there too close to Defenders and miss the purpose of the ship.. What if you could do something more of a focus attack to increase damage output, allow for increased movement or battlefield warping and/or increase hull/shield as a "Experimental" idea all of which would mirror more like we saw with rebels.

Title Rebel Ace : use a focus to add one hit to result to your dice, defender loses one agi Cost 0

Title Hyper Drive Engi : gain slam action and allow for attack this round Cost 3

Title Experimental frame: add one hull and one shield cost 3

Fluff wise the b-wing could definitely use a tieD or BTL type title to do a double attack. Wouldn't be free like the other two examples though. Maybe a cost of 3 with same cannon restrictions as tieD.

Fluff wise the b-wing could definitely use a tieD or BTL type title to do a double attack. Wouldn't be free like the other two examples though. Maybe a cost of 3 with same cannon restrictions as tieD.

Yeah, I think FFG may have accidentally not future-proofed themselves making E2 a mod. The single crew helps, but mods are very useful slot - and you only get the one. Not that if you were gonna use a B for torps you wouldn't just slap chimps on there, I guess.

I don't know about always going for double-tap, though. There are other ideas, like you could do a "B-Wing Test Pilot" type thing which enhanced cannon secondary attacks (like adding a red die or free dice mods). Or "B-Wing Mk II", and add a Tech slot (as apparently the resistance is building troop transports from B-Wing Mk II hulls in the same era as the T-70).

The B-Wings need a pretty solid buff to be able to out-joust Defenders. But more importantly, they need a way to not be hosed by every control effect in the game. Tractor Beams in particular really mess with them because they ALWAYS get hit -- which means that Shadowcasters eat them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Honestly, I think the only real fix would be to move the e2 mod to a title. That would make the being much more favorable.

The B-Wings need a pretty solid buff to be able to out-joust Defenders. But more importantly, they need a way to not be hosed by every control effect in the game. Tractor Beams in particular really mess with them because they ALWAYS get hit -- which means that Shadowcasters eat them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Ive done some playtesting with this. It's amazing how nimble and arcdogy the Bwing becomes when it stops caring about stress. Especally when you throuw in Farlander or Ibstan's abilities.

Rakaydos- That's an intriguing and characterful upgrade. Maybe combine that with UnitOmegas suggestion to make E2 a title so that the player has to choose, as with Defenders... only a more difficult decision in this case...

B-Wing Prototype

Title

When attacking with a Cannon secondary weapon, you may choose to add your primary Attack value to the Attack value of the Cannon. If you do so, assign yourself 2 Stress tokens and a Weapons Disabled token. You may only remove Weapon Disabled tokens if you have no Stress tokens assigned to you.

Or you could just errata the B-wing/E2 upgrade card in Rebel Aces from B-wing only. Modification. to B-wing only. Title.

From this to this

It is that easy. Given FFG's new heavy handed policy to Pen and Ink Changes in Eratta nad FAQs

Oh

Honestly, I think the only real fix would be to move the e2 mod to a title. That would make the being much more favorable.

I like that gyro stabilization title.

The other thing I would like to see is a title/sensor/mod/crew that really beefs up the power of the secondary weapons of the B-Wing. Give it some major teeth:

"Once per round, after you perform an attack with a Torpedo secondary weapon, you may perform a primary weapon attack or a Cannon secondary weapon attack."

I like that gyro stabilization title.

The other thing I would like to see is a title/sensor/mod/crew that really beefs up the power of the secondary weapons of the B-Wing. Give it some major teeth:

"Once per round, after you perform an attack with a Torpedo secondary weapon, you may perform a primary weapon attack or a Cannon secondary weapon attack."

Quite frankly, other than straight up E2 errata, something like this is much more likely as the B-Wing has already been re-released, and the only ships I know which are triple released were in Core Sets (Though, obviously, I hold out hope for "Rebel Veterans" with Xs and Ys). But, some kind of system slot that lets you Torp then Cannon or Primary would be pretty interesting for a lot of ships. If you want to really do a two-fer, make it "Small Ship only" (so no Lambda, Ghost or U-Wing) and then make it any valid other secondary weapon. Let Punishers double-tap too. We double-tap two birds, if you would.

Wasn't aware the B needed fixing...

Wasn't aware the B needed fixing...

80% jousting efficency, slow dial and barrel roll, vs the x7 Delta's 104% jousting efficency white K and barrel roll, and the Lothal Rebel with FCS's 102% efficency with Hera crew.

The Xwing was buffed with IA to the Bwing's level at the same time the Bwing was rendered obsolete.

Wasn't aware the B needed fixing...

The B-wing sort have been displaced by the ARC-170. Also the B-wings favorite Wave 3 dogpile traffic jams that was common with swarm heavy meta just isn't there any more. It was in those pile ins that the B-wing excelled at with its slow movement and advanced sensors it could just slam into the mess and blast through the whole pile up. High amounts of hit points makes it able to survive quite a few 2-3 dice shots. Now the ARC-170 fills the high hit points low agility high firepower setup for the same point value.

Also, Pre the ARC and the nerf, x3 U-Boats with plasma torps would eat B-Wings for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I would like the bwing to have some other than a defender title. A title about movement, kinda of like a snap shot barrell roll.

"When an opponent executes a manuever at range 1 in your firing arc, you may perform a free barrel roll action."

Since bwings are so easy to hit at range 2-3 anyways, figure make them awesome knife fighters, able to b-roll opponents trying to step into their territory.

Or for a defensive title, a new elusiveness.

"When an enemy ship declares you as the target of an attack, you may receive 1 stress token to make the attacker roll 1 less attack die."

Better than an evade token, but cost of stress. Helps Ibatism and maybe Farlander with their abilities.

BWing, Xwing, kziraxxx, scyk, starviper, phantom... All have same simple fix-

Title, production model: -2pts, you cannot add any other points to this ship.

Probably doesn't fully fix any of them but you'd at least see some generics as filler here and there with it. I doubt even in multiples it would break any of those ships.

Gets rid of the "combo" of slots tax. Could probably allow 1 other upgrade and still wouldn't break any of them- rookie Xwing with vectored thrusters @21, FCS Blues @ 22, concussed Kizerxs @ 21, Stygian phantoms @25, autothrusters for vipers, heavy Scyks @ 14...none of those would break this meta.

Ok, so maybe it doesn't fill the role it used to, but it's far from useless, especially with the Deadeye nerf. And a lot of the named pilots are still good for it, and its high HP and (sometimes) crew slot still make it plenty viable. So it doesn't match the efficiency of a Defender? No crap. Not much is supposed to. That's literally the point of the Defender. It's also a native 8 points cheaper. I mean, it packs 8 HP (5 of which are un-critable shields) and a barrel roll for 22 points. For 2 more points you get FCS, which gives it offensive action economy to match the x7's defensive economy.

I dunno, I don't fly Rebels so maybe I am just not familiar with the ship like some people are, but in all my games I have never really seen a B Wing be useless unless my dice were incredibly hot. But Defender envy is just plain stupid. It's just stupid. B-Wings were featured in tourney lists over and over after their release. Defenders barely registered a blip before they got their titles, and the lists they were in never got far. The Defender obviously needed a nudge because FFG grossly overpriced the white K.

The B-Wings need a pretty solid buff to be able to out-joust Defenders. But more importantly, they need a way to not be hosed by every control effect in the game. Tractor Beams in particular really mess with them because they ALWAYS get hit -- which means that Shadowcasters eat them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Why specifically B-Wings... all the 1 agility ships suffer from Tractor Beam hits.

Ok, so maybe it doesn't fill the role it used to, but it's far from useless, especially with the Deadeye nerf. And a lot of the named pilots are still good for it, and its high HP and (sometimes) crew slot still make it plenty viable. So it doesn't match the efficiency of a Defender? No crap. Not much is supposed to. That's literally the point of the Defender. It's also a native 8 points cheaper. I mean, it packs 8 HP (5 of which are un-critable shields) and a barrel roll for 22 points. For 2 more points you get FCS, which gives it offensive action economy to match the x7's defensive economy.

I dunno, I don't fly Rebels so maybe I am just not familiar with the ship like some people are, but in all my games I have never really seen a B Wing be useless unless my dice were incredibly hot. But Defender envy is just plain stupid. It's just stupid. B-Wings were featured in tourney lists over and over after their release. Defenders barely registered a blip before they got their titles, and the lists they were in never got far. The Defender obviously needed a nudge because FFG grossly overpriced the white K.

What can the Bwing E2 do that the Uwing cannot? Both 23 points base.

The U has an extra agility most of the time, an extra crew slot, same attack power, same health, and a strictly better non-red dial. And a modification slot. It gives up... the ability to carry a tractor beam, barrel roll, and small base. And a second torpedo slot that never gets used, especially since E2 takes up the Guidance Chips slot.

The basic Bwing is only 6 points cheaper than an x7 Tie Defender. For less than the price of an HLC, you trade 2 shields for +2 agility and a free evade every round, plus get a white Kturn.

If it was JUST defender envy, you might have a point, but no. The Defender, the VCX, the Uwing, the ARC all outperform the Bwing AND Xwing (even after the xwing buff, it's now up to Bwing levels) in the jousting role, while having options the older ships lack.

Titles for everbody!

Ok, so maybe it doesn't fill the role it used to, but it's far from useless, especially with the Deadeye nerf. And a lot of the named pilots are still good for it, and its high HP and (sometimes) crew slot still make it plenty viable. So it doesn't match the efficiency of a Defender? No crap. Not much is supposed to. That's literally the point of the Defender. It's also a native 8 points cheaper. I mean, it packs 8 HP (5 of which are un-critable shields) and a barrel roll for 22 points. For 2 more points you get FCS, which gives it offensive action economy to match the x7's defensive economy.

I dunno, I don't fly Rebels so maybe I am just not familiar with the ship like some people are, but in all my games I have never really seen a B Wing be useless unless my dice were incredibly hot. But Defender envy is just plain stupid. It's just stupid. B-Wings were featured in tourney lists over and over after their release. Defenders barely registered a blip before they got their titles, and the lists they were in never got far. The Defender obviously needed a nudge because FFG grossly overpriced the white K.

What can the Bwing E2 do that the Uwing cannot? Both 23 points base.

The U has an extra agility most of the time, an extra crew slot, same attack power, same health, and a strictly better non-red dial. And a modification slot. It gives up... the ability to carry a tractor beam, barrel roll, and small base. And a second torpedo slot that never gets used, especially since E2 takes up the Guidance Chips slot.

The basic Bwing is only 6 points cheaper than an x7 Tie Defender. For less than the price of an HLC, you trade 2 shields for +2 agility and a free evade every round, plus get a white Kturn.

If it was JUST defender envy, you might have a point, but no. The Defender, the VCX, the Uwing, the ARC all outperform the Bwing AND Xwing (even after the xwing buff, it's now up to Bwing levels) in the jousting role, while having options the older ships lack.

Yeah, I have to agree that all sounds quite solid, but I still think that all of its named pilots are really good and go well beyond the usefulness of the B-Wing. Nera can take APT with Extra Munitions, Chimps, and FCS, Ten Numb can barrel roll with Autoblasters at PS 10 in an x7 heavy meta, Keyan Farlander is Keyan Farlander, and Ibtisam can take Wired and Lando (actually not sure quite how good that last one is, but it seems like it could be surprisingly tanky).

In fact, Ten Numb can just stay PS 8 since Ryad and Vessery are the most common Defender pilots that I see in matches on Youtube, so that leaves room for Predator (or whatever your favorite EPT is) instead of Veteran Instincts.