With #2, I've been trying flotillas as squadrons rather than just the no commander house rule. Yes, they have some slight alterations like relay and a flotilla keyword (can only be targeted with battery fire, etc.). Need a few more games with them like that to see if it works or not.

The whole point of the "Flotilla" is that it is a collection of smaller vessels, that individually have no meaning or effect, but collectively have enough capability to effect the battle.

So Commanders get an immediate shell game? Sounds right to me...

You're ramming a whole fleet of smaller ships - how many of those smaller ships are you actually ramming as they all scatter out of the way? I mean, sure, you'll pancake the ones you do it - but is it it enough to make a difference - or is it represented by the fact you basically half their operational life (of the mini-fleet) by dealing a Damage card..... Personally, I feel that's totally representative.

Like the Dilemma with Squadron Sizes and Bases, we put 2 smaller ships on Pegs.... But that doesn't tell us how many ships are there... Its just an indication that its a flotilla...

I see no problems with the way Flotillas are now, other than perceptual ones of people who are reluctant to adapt or account - and that's cool and all, but I don't get an opportunity to get complacent...

I Never Win.

...

'cept that one Tournament where I think I killed people with laughter after I stormed the field with a First-Activation Strike and Two Interdictors...

You know what Kills Flotillas? Rhymer and 2 Bombers shooting at them when they're starting the Game at Speed 0.

1) I like that the one-shot-per-arc applies to squadrons too. If it didn't, I would fly around without regard for where the AA ships were. As it is, I love the challenge of navigating overlapping fields of fire, engagement zones, Intel bubbles, and strike ranges to try and minimize the incoming fire for my squadrons while maximizing their threat. Making AA fire a given would remove the most ubiquitous "threat zone" layer in this calculus.

2) I lifeboat my admiral because other people still aren't bringing any of the numerous reliable ways to kill her. I, on the other hand, regularly win by tabling (when I win) because I bring a reliable, efficient solution for killing lifeboats--MC30 with H9's. When other people start bringing solutions to this too, I will stop lifeboating. But it's not as simple as "put H9 on your MC80 and profit." You need to be bringing something that can 1) rapidly chase down the lifeboat, 2) reliably negate the scatter either through accuracy generation or token removal, and 3) remain effective against other ships in case you don't find yourself up against a lifeboat.

3) See #2. If you run into this, you need to bring a better flotilla-hunting solution. And there are many.

There are tons of ways already in the game to generate accuracies.

Right, but it's not just that, Tirion. It's that the ship itself is so cheap that it can't utterly disregard the battle, flying away from it or on the outskirts of battle, where it's sole purpose is either activation or deployment delay. Accuracies don't help if you literally can never shoot at the flotilla.

I understand the frustration, but I still think it's currently acceptable.

So go get it..... Both sides have cheap ways of dealing with them.

1: Ships can fire from the same arc IF one shot is anti-squadron and another is anti-ship.

My opponent always seems to give me a choice, shoot his ship or squadrons. Which, when you think about it is the right thing for him to do.

I stopped playing Battletech when good tactics was punished by game design. It was lazy, and made the game far more about the strategic choices than the tactical ones.

Good play should be rewarded with having to make hard decisions.

So on this one, no, I don't think it makes the game better.

2: Flotillas cannot contain Commanders.

A Corvette or Raider can chase down the commander. If you start chasing the commander down and killing him, and nothing says it like Squadrons with Rogue, you'll find it changes.

I believe that my first suggestion rewards good play rather than punishes it. It encourages smart fighter placement. Rather than simply alpha striking, fighters must consider where there battles will take place.

Ah, that 18/24 point ship should dictate that? It should control 50+ points of fleet design? Your argument doesn't demonstrate why allowing it adds to the game, only that it demands a response. Additionally, putting your commander on a flotilla provides no real tactical choices in the game. Just fly him away. On a fighting ship you have to choose to risk him or not.

1. "Rather than simply alpha striking, fighters must consider where there battles take place." Seem to me you are saying that my opponent who once played well to give me a hard choice to make now has a poor choice to make himself. Game design that provides poor tactical choice.

2. What ship is 18 points with a commander on it? If you won't send anything after it, that's on you, that's you choice.

Historically in fleet actions the Admiral was on the biggest, meanest, most well armed, and armored ship. Nobody ever had a rowboat as their flagship. It was about prestige as much as fighting prowess.

Admiral Nelson wasn't hiding at home on a keyboard raging about the Wave III announcement. By god, he was out there in the thick of it on the forums.

Er, I mean. Admiral Nelson wasn't hiding in some measly sixth rate at the Battle of Trafalgar. He was standing on the deck of the Victory in the thick of it.

And he ate a bullet for that decision, but won the day.

Historically in fleet actions the Admiral was on the biggest, meanest, most well armed, and armored ship. Nobody ever had a rowboat as their flagship. It was about prestige as much as fighting prowess.

Admiral Nelson wasn't hiding at home on a keyboard raging about the Wave III announcement. By god, he was out there in the thick of it on the forums.

Er, I mean. Admiral Nelson wasn't hiding in some measly sixth rate at the Battle of Trafalgar. He was standing on the deck of the Victory in the thick of it.

And he ate a bullet for that decision, but won the day.

So what you're saying is, we should be incapable of learning, and slavishly adhere to tradition? Because it was Historic?

Nelson never lived that down, after all...

The Royal Navy taunts him to this day with their Gold Officer Loops....

Historically in fleet actions the Admiral was on the biggest, meanest, most well armed, and armored ship. Nobody ever had a rowboat as their flagship. It was about prestige as much as fighting prowess.

Admiral Nelson wasn't hiding at home on a keyboard raging about the Wave III announcement. By god, he was out there in the thick of it on the forums.

Er, I mean. Admiral Nelson wasn't hiding in some measly sixth rate at the Battle of Trafalgar. He was standing on the deck of the Victory in the thick of it.

And he ate a bullet for that decision, but won the day.

So what you're saying is, we should be incapable of learning, and slavishly adhere to tradition? Because it was Historic?

Nelson never lived that down, after all...

The Royal Navy taunts him to this day with their Gold Officer Loops....

Just responding to the point made that, "historically", commanders were not present in the action of a battle.

Historically, that's factually incorrect, at least when it comes to fleet actions.

If you want to direct your fleet from an escape pod on the edges of the system, go for it. I'll be on the bridge of my Star Destroyer

Historically in fleet actions the Admiral was on the biggest, meanest, most well armed, and armored ship. Nobody ever had a rowboat as their flagship. It was about prestige as much as fighting prowess.

Admiral Nelson wasn't hiding at home on a keyboard raging about the Wave III announcement. By god, he was out there in the thick of it on the forums.

Er, I mean. Admiral Nelson wasn't hiding in some measly sixth rate at the Battle of Trafalgar. He was standing on the deck of the Victory in the thick of it.

And he ate a bullet for that decision, but won the day.

So what you're saying is, we should be incapable of learning, and slavishly adhere to tradition? Because it was Historic?

Nelson never lived that down, after all...

The Royal Navy taunts him to this day with their Gold Officer Loops....

Just responding to the point made that "historically" commanders were not present in the action of a battle.

Historically, that's factually incorrect, at least when it comes to fleet actions.

If you want to direct your fleet from an escape pod on the edges of the system, go for it. I'll be on the bridge of my Star Destroyer

BUICK!

Every time in the last two games I have fired on flotillas (3 times) they have died with one attack.(scatter does not work if you accuracy it) only takes 4 points of damage to kill one Seems like a bad place to put your very costly Commander to me.

The "history" we should be concerned with in Armada battles is Star Wars history.

Where were the fleet commanders in the various battles in Clone Wars, Star Wars: Rebels, and the various movies? Emulate that if you want to be "historical"!

Slavish Adherence to History and Tradition simply shows you have nothing better to think about.

My Admiral will be on the ISD.

Every.

Time.

Any Imperial player who doesn't put it on their biggest baddest ship is a coward who doesn't deserve to wear the Imperial uniform, should be taunted mercilessly as such for the entire game by their opponent, and needs to start playing the rebel scum who run like the cowards they are.

(unless you are in a tournament, then winning is allowed to trump being awesome)

Slavish Adherence to History and Tradition simply shows you have nothing better to think about.

I love that in a conversation about the wisdom of where to put your commander, you quoted Natasha Kerensky. Who dies in combat while leading troops in a battle ( while piloting the biggest clan mech in existence).

Slavish Adherence to History and Tradition simply shows you have nothing better to think about.

I love that in a conversation about the wisdom of where to put your commander, you quoted Natasha Kerensky. Who dies in combat while leading troops in a battle ( while piloting the biggest clan mech in existence).

I think that was the point haha

If I wasn't Dras's biggest fan already, now he goes and quoyes the Black Widows.

I live by the fact that "Old Age and Treachery will beat Youth and Enthusiasm any day".....

Another note about lifeboats. You talk about an 18-23 point ship forcing your opponent to spend 50+ points if they want to hunt it down. Well commander said cost 20-30+ points! I'll gladly sent 51 points to kill your 38-50+ point lifeboat! Not only are the points equal but you lose your commander effect!

It's not as uneven a trade as you think. Someday I'll put an admiral on Admonition though. (Probably Mon Mothma with Lando and blast doors)

What are the thoughts on implementing the Imperial Assault rule where you can 'pass' if your opponent has more activations left than you?

I live by the fact that "Old Age and Treachery will beat Youth and Enthusiasm any day".....

Lies

I live by the fact that "Old Age and Treachery will beat Youth and Enthusiasm any day".....

Lies

STILL ALIVE

What are the thoughts on implementing the Imperial Assault rule where you can 'pass' if your opponent has more activations left than you?

That was a horrible discussion a few weeks back. Not everyone made it out unscathed.

While I agree that thematically having the commander on a transport may be off putting, I'm not going to do something tactically stupid in a game to make it more flavorful... I like the ruling in cc where even if your flagship is destroyed, the commander is not killed... If ffg were concerned about how their game looks with commanders flying around on flotilla, they could change the rule that losing a flagship turns off a commanders effect...

Have a guess what that flotilla in the opposite corner of the map at speed 1 is doing.

Dying to a Raider cause I'm just that sick of it I started taking one?