All it takes for a ship or upgrade regarded as "DOA" to get love is for someone to take it.

Look at Attani Mindlink and triple K.

All it takes for a ship or upgrade regarded as "DOA" to get love is for someone to take it.

Look at Attani Mindlink and triple K.

Another reason to keep on experimenting with other ships at casual night. You could invent the next Dengaroo, Chihuahuas, or galaxy note 7. Though not everyone will thank you for it (LOOKING AT YOU MR. BERLING!).

But the best ships don't care much about getting blocked, really, so there's not much value there either.

Blocking isn't just about action denial. It's also about positioning. Dengar hates getting stuck on a rock or not being able to sloop to get things in arc. Defenders hate not being able to k-turn.

Lately, I've been increasingly......irritated (?) with the meta of X-wing. Builds like Dengaroo and Palp Defenders are so common these days, the game is losing its charm. Is there a name of this phenomenon or explanation from a game design point of view? My background in gaming is RPGs (narrative) and wargames (scenario based). Is it simply that the 100 point 6 rock deathmatch was never my thing?

I do love X-wing, but its feeling increasingly hard to find a casual group these days. When you pull out a list of 3 T-65s, you're almost laughed at. (not to mention your ships being promptly sent off the board as well)

The closest I could find was an article by Mark Rosewater (Magic The Gathering designer).

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2002-03-08

I'm pretty sure that I'm a "Johnny".......but there seems to be too many "Spikes" these days.

First off...I love that article! I find it very amusing. I'm very much a Johnny. I like to pull out crazy stuff that everyone thinks sucks and win with it. I'm very much that type of player.

Well...there are lots of things to say about still picking things that can work in tournaments that are kooky or odd or just not tried before. Still...I'm not sure if you would still have fun. I really got bored with just playing in tournaments. I have quit them completely and really started having fun again.

The trick is to find some dedicated Casual players in your area. There are many widely accepted types of ways to play X-wing these days with HotAC and Mario Kart X-wing being the biggest. It does take some work to try to find those guys, but they are out there. I know quite a few guys that were on the edge of quitting or had even quit that I've managed to drag back into the game...as long as they don't have to play tournament level lists. I recommend looking to host different casual events and see who comes out. I run a podcast for Casual X-wing and dedicated an episode to talk just about how to try to build your casual scene. Link is in the bottom.

Good luck and I hope you find a way to recapture the fun of the game. You can enjoy X-wing and still dislike tournaments.

The meta is simply thousands of players crunching numbers and tactics to sift the most effective builds. It's inevitable that only a few will make it to the top.

However, the meta almost always changes when a new wave is introduced. And the meta is always waiting for someone to come up with a new build that out-competes the existing builds.

At my local game pub, we try to do rules that shake up the meta. I'm going to suggest, for example, on our next league, that players earn bonus points for following the release schedule. For example, 1st week, we might play only waves 1 and 2. 2nd week we add waves 3 and 4, etc... (Bonus points is important so that players who don't have enough of a wave can still participate, they just won't get the bonus points.)

You need some Meta-cine...hahahahahahah

Okay, I'll just grab my coat and be on my way now.

FYI, for those of you quoting the MtG player archetypes, those of you who like the theme or aesthetics at least as much as you do squad-building or winning identify as "Vorthos".

When a PS 2 rebel swarm and a 3 G1A starfighters can win regionals, I don't think the meta is as closed as you'd think.

A list with 2 wardens and 10 bombs made at least top 8 (maybe even top 4) at another regional.

Where I come from (Central Canada), things are a little rigid. certain ships really get no love.

examples:

U-Wing: regarded as DOA. people only buy them for 2 copies of Expertise.

A-wing: the little ship that can't. "even Prockets don't throw enough red dice anymore" said one player.

X-wing except Biggs: now you're just being silly.

B-wing, TIE Punisher/Bomber, E-Wing: those exist???

I can't believe people still don't understand the A

it's

a

BLOCKER

relying on it to kill things is silly

I think that if you are frustrated with the meta and find it narrow, you have two basic choices to keep playing (and this goes along with the ending of Stay On The Leader's blog post):

1. If winning is your main priority, you join it.

2. Adjust expectations. Don't worry about taking list that is going to win it all. This doesn't mean giving up on winning completely, but it does mean accepting that "doing well" may be a good success.

I most often pick the second option. I don't enjoy this game when I'm running something I don't feel is my own, but I don't enjoy losing either. This tends to allow me to place well in larger tourneys (several top 16 finishes though I haven't won any) and occasionally win smaller local tourneys. I also occasionally get blown out, but overall, I'm happy with that strategy. I understand some people need a squad that is going to be able get big wins early and fight for a top spot every time, but I think if people adjust their expectations just a bit, they'll see that this meta is pretty wide open compared to previous ones.

Why not simply try playing a "spike" yourself? or a close variation thereof, or build a direct counter to one?..and then LET LOOSE THE BEASTS OF WAR AND CRY HAVOCK!!!! ;-D

My advice is fly lots of stuff. See what you like and what works. Combine it all into a glorious Frankenstein and smash things. Then do it all over again.

I can't say that absolutely anything is playable right now in the competitive scene, but if you go to X-Wing List Juggler and look at the results of the last several regionals, you'll see that there are a lot more ships in the top 8s than one would think based on your local meta as you describe it and the posts in this forum. They may take some practice to fly well, but they can flown to good results.

We just had a Battle of Scarif night at the FLGS. It was T65 X-Wings, U-Wings and Y-Wings against TIE Fighters and TIE Strikers (yes, some exist in the wild). It was a fantastic time. The game can be whatever you want, and what you can encourage others to try.

We just had a Battle of Scarif night at the FLGS. It was T65 X-Wings, U-Wings and Y-Wings against TIE Fighters and TIE Strikers (yes, some exist in the wild). It was a fantastic time. The game can be whatever you want, and what you can encourage others to try.

I think that most people that are frustrated by the meta either a) have a limited play group or b) want to play competitively but are feeling their choices are stifled.

Despite being named Tim, I gravitate more towards Johnny in that article - I'd like to win, but I have to do it with my own little ideas and I prefer my ideas be somewhat thematic. Shenanigans over raw overwhelming firepower.

I don't care what the "meta" is because I only play with friends, family, and coworkers. I'm not trying to go to worlds.

I think that if you are frustrated with the meta and find it narrow, you have two basic choices to keep playing (and this goes along with the ending of Stay On The Leader's blog post):

1. If winning is your main priority, you join it.

2. Adjust expectations. Don't worry about taking list that is going to win it all. This doesn't mean giving up on winning completely, but it does mean accepting that "doing well" may be a good success.

Alex is spot on here. I know I'm not I'm not a great competitor. I know I'm likely to get trounced when matched up against Palps, Zuckus and the like. I get 1 shotted regularly and I can't seem to lay down the pain on Defenders. BUT I don't fly the latest hotness. So I adjust my expectations. My personal goal is usually to knock out the opponent's major threat to me. That's it. Anything more is gravy.

I'd love to have story be part of my games or to have them more thematic or even include some RP elements, but for now I have to stick to what my local stores play and I'm satisfied with that. I still consider myself new to the game, so a lot of my losing is probably lack of experience. It just feels like I get Palped or Zuckussed more than I probably am.

If the people you usu. play X-wing against at your local shop aren't as like minded as you, you may just have to build your own community.

Vyrago , your background is in gaming is RPGs and wargames. Maybe you need to introduce some of your RPG friends into a casual game of X-wing before an RPG session during that "warm up" time peeps usually have before they play their RPG of choice. Let them borrow ships, set up a scenario or even run a mission that's included in some of the expansions.

Maybe invite one of the more approachable people you've played against to play the way you want to on a day when your shop has open gaming. Or to your home if that's a better solution.

If it is important to you, you will find a way. If it's not, you'll find an excuse.

Good luck. I hope things turn around for you.

Interesting post, I don't play magic but I recognize those player types. Reading it I'm very much a Johnny. I play a few different games that have very predominant metas and I enjoy beating with my home brew tactics. I'm fortunate that the local

Shops in my area are not over run with spikes.

I think x wing is decently balanced, there appears to be some slight power creep.

Fly what you love.

The original Timmy/Johnny/Spike article is oversimplified. The sequel is much better: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-revisited-2006-03-20

tl;dr; for the second article:

• Timmy plays to experience something
• Johnny plays to express something
• Spike plays to win

There's also the spectrum of Vorthos (who cares most about how cards make him feel ) and Melvin (who cares most about how cards make him think), which is orthogonal to the Timmy/Johnny/Spike trio: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/melvin-and-vorthos-2007-05-07-0

All that to say that wanting to play more missions, scenarios, and stories is more of a Timmy thing than you might think, because it's about experiencing something different from the normal game.

Unless it's a Johnny thing (or a Melvin thing) where you like the way different missions force you to re-think your squad building priorities and you like coming up with wacky ways to win the mission with cards that aren't normally viable in the standard game.

Or unless it's a Vorthos thing where you like the way a good story or scenario makes you feel connected to your ships and characters on a level beyond the raw numbers and rules.

Or maybe it's all of the above, for some players.

We just had a Battle of Scarif night at the FLGS. It was T65 X-Wings, U-Wings and Y-Wings against TIE Fighters and TIE Strikers (yes, some exist in the wild). It was a fantastic time. The game can be whatever you want, and what you can encourage others to try.

*this* is what the game is about for me!

I play for fun, winning is nice but i don't need to win, for me the most important thing is to come together with a friend have a nice chat and a game we both enjoy and had fun playing.

While i prefer mission i also play the casual 100 point game as long as i have fun doing it.

Life is to short to not have fun while you're playing and it'S also important that the person your playing against has fun.

So if you don't enjoy playing you have to change something, maybe try to get your friends away from the tournament style game or search for casual players in your region here, Facebook..., or try something completely different like a campaign, missions you and your friens write together, or something that includes ground units or fortifications (space station, mining facility, rebel hideout.....) you must destroy, there are plenty of ways to enjoy X-Wing you just have to finde the one you can enjoy with your friends.

I think there are some examples that show the meta is in a rut (95% of Imperial lists making the cut at worlds/regionals including x7 or Palpatine), while there are other outstanding examples (G1As, Scyks, & B-wings in regional winning lists) that say otherwise.

I personally, think that there are a few pieces that make an extreme negative impact, and FFG would be wise to errata them to open the meta wide open again. Palpatine, x7s, and maybe Manaroo should be dealt with in some way to get them back on the power curve.

I don't think we will see anything done with Palpatine though. If they wanted to do something, I think they already would have by now, which is disappointing. He very well may be the nail by which Imperial players forever hang. Manaroo I'm not sure FFG see a serious problem with either (or the player base at large for that matter). With her low PS, at the very least, higher PS large base ships with boost and ways to mod dice after a boost can handle her.

But x7 has been extremely detrimental to Imperial list diversity and the game overall. Once you start getting cards that make a certain ship, regardless of pilot, more cost efficient than every other ship available to that faction regardless of build, there is an issue. The x7 title does this in such a way that I have never seen in the game before. Even in the days of pre-nerf Whisper, at least her support wasn't a solid staple. With x7, list building for imperials competitively goes like this, only varying when the player looks to the change of pace Decimator as the foundation (which usually has Palpatine crew and is often supported by an x7 Defender anyway)-

1.your choice of x7 Defenders

2. maybe a Palp shuttle, or another x7 Defender, or Carnor Jax for the mirror.

3. If for some reason nothing in step 2 fits, Omega Leader or Inquisitor awaits.

Do you remember how strong Crack swarms used to be? They've disappeared as fast as Pokemon Go players thanks to x7. The question is no longer about if x7 is too strong. The question is does the existence of x7 allow for competitive imperial players to field non-x7 lists without placing a major handicap on themselves?

I too hope that 2017 makes X-wings great again. The game is called X-wing. Surely this is top priority for FFG?

We can all hope the long awaited X-wing fix provides avenues of enlightenment for the various meta-troubles each of us seems to find ourselves in. It is but a dream, but perhaps, someday, it shall be possible to take 3 or even 4 X-wings to a regional and have a decent chance to make the cut. 2017 still has that new car smell. The dreams it brings have not been smothered yet....

I too hope that 2017 makes X-wings great again. The game is called X-wing. Surely this is top priority for FFG?

regen poe's still good

I think there are some examples that show the meta is in a rut (95% of Imperial lists making the cut at worlds/regionals including x7 or Palpatine), while there are other outstanding examples (G1As, Scyks, & B-wings in regional winning lists) that say otherwise.

I personally, think that there are a few pieces that make an extreme negative impact, and FFG would be wise to errata them to open the meta wide open again. Palpatine, x7s, and maybe Manaroo should be dealt with in some way to get them back on the power curve.

I don't think we will see anything done with Palpatine though. If they wanted to do something, I think they already would have by now, which is disappointing. He very well may be the nail by which Imperial players forever hang. Manaroo I'm not sure FFG see a serious problem with either (or the player base at large for that matter). With her low PS, at the very least, higher PS large base ships with boost and ways to mod dice after a boost can handle her.

But x7 has been extremely detrimental to Imperial list diversity and the game overall. Once you start getting cards that make a certain ship, regardless of pilot, more cost efficient than every other ship available to that faction regardless of build, there is an issue. The x7 title does this in such a way that I have never seen in the game before. Even in the days of pre-nerf Whisper, at least her support wasn't a solid staple. With x7, list building for imperials competitively goes like this, only varying when the player looks to the change of pace Decimator as the foundation (which usually has Palpatine crew and is often supported by an x7 Defender anyway)-

1.your choice of x7 Defenders

2. maybe a Palp shuttle, or another x7 Defender, or Carnor Jax for the mirror.

3. If for some reason nothing in step 2 fits, Omega Leader or Inquisitor awaits.

Do you remember how strong Crack swarms used to be? They've disappeared as fast as Pokemon Go players thanks to x7. The question is no longer about if x7 is too strong. The question is does the existence of x7 allow for competitive imperial players to field non-x7 lists without placing a major handicap on themselves?

I would mostly agree with the issue the X7 has created. The minor nuance is that the Imperials do still have good options outside of them that can win but it's only something most players do because they are tired of defenders.

When a PS 2 rebel swarm and a 3 G1A starfighters can win regionals, I don't think the meta is as closed as you'd think.

A list with 2 wardens and 10 bombs made at least top 8 (maybe even top 4) at another regional.

Where I come from (Central Canada), things are a little rigid. certain ships really get no love.

examples:

U-Wing: regarded as DOA. people only buy them for 2 copies of Expertise.

A-wing: the little ship that can't. "even Prockets don't throw enough red dice anymore" said one player.

X-wing except Biggs: now you're just being silly.

B-wing, TIE Punisher/Bomber, E-Wing: those exist???

I can't believe people still don't understand the A

it's

a

BLOCKER

relying on it to kill things is silly

Tell that to my four A-wing list, which kills things just fine (lots of blocking, too, though).

And heck, I won a four-round tournament last wee with a 4 X-wing list (3 T-65s and a T-70). Beat two Palp Defenders lists, a Fenn/Zuckuss/Manroo, and triple K-wing bomber list.

Not statistically relevant, perhaps, but hey, it's X-wing -- anything can happen.