Lately, I've been increasingly......irritated (?) with the meta of X-wing. Builds like Dengaroo and Palp Defenders are so common these days, the game is losing its charm. Is there a name of this phenomenon or explanation from a game design point of view? My background in gaming is RPGs (narrative) and wargames (scenario based). Is it simply that the 100 point 6 rock deathmatch was never my thing?

I do love X-wing, but its feeling increasingly hard to find a casual group these days. When you pull out a list of 3 T-65s, you're almost laughed at. (not to mention your ships being promptly sent off the board as well)

The closest I could find was an article by Mark Rosewater (Magic The Gathering designer).

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2002-03-08

I'm pretty sure that I'm a "Johnny".......but there seems to be too many "Spikes" these days.

Shame you're not local to me.

We play in a large group of people who play for the story as much as the win.

We love playing thematic stuff and you often see stuff in out games that is 'not meta' because its fun.

I've flown t65s a lot lately, i also flew scyks before and post 'buff'

To me the game is as much about creating a story as having a 'killer list' , without the lore its a maths exercise with bits of plastic.

Why not simply try playing a "spike" yourself? or a close variation thereof, or build a direct counter to one?..and then LET LOOSE THE BEASTS OF WAR AND CRY HAVOCK!!!! ;-D

There's a lot of competitive events around where I play and Dengaroo/Palp make appearances frequently (and a lot of mindlink lately), but sometimes we do other special rules tournaments that limit ship/pilots/upgrades which can be a whole lot of fun. The last such event was won by a list of 4 T-65s. So I say try getting something like that together every once in a while.

If you don't like the meta, you don't like the game at all.

Literally every ship not named the punisher is 100% competitive right now.

meta's pretty wide as is

the "secret", such as it is, is just being able to modify your dice

even X-wings can manage it, not to the point where you'd be able to reliably win but at least to the point where it isn't a joke

Love when that article is brought up and it is kind of indicative of your situation. I would recommend you try and get your gaming group to try an outlaw league, X-Kart, or heroes of the arturi cluster. Any of those are good for taking a break from meta gaming. Also, anyone who truly wants to be competitive should be flying new stuff all the time in addition to practicing their true competitive list. if for no other reason than being able to anticipate what other people are gonna do with any ship.

The meta is wide open, but I can see where you are coming from as far as just wanting to put theme first not min-max.

I'm sort of surprised - and this might just be the region I play in - but since the most recent FAQ it feels to me like the meta is more wide open than it's ever been. I see more variation and combinations of ships being played than I've ever seen before.

it's awesome.

If you don't like the meta, you don't like the game at all.

Literally every ship not named the punisher is 100% competitive right now.

This is one of the most wrong things I've ever seen written in the English language.

I'm a 'spike' by nature and this metagame is too 'spikey' even for me. I'm trying to cling onto my interest in the game but it's not easy. My last blog was book-ended by frustrations with the current form of the game: http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/the-garbage-will-do-eight-falcons-in.html

Lately, I've been increasingly......irritated (?) with the meta of X-wing. Builds like Dengaroo and Palp Defenders are so common these days, the game is losing its charm. Is there a name of this phenomenon or explanation from a game design point of view? My background in gaming is RPGs (narrative) and wargames (scenario based). Is it simply that the 100 point 6 rock deathmatch was never my thing?

I do love X-wing, but its feeling increasingly hard to find a casual group these days. When you pull out a list of 3 T-65s, you're almost laughed at. (not to mention your ships being promptly sent off the board as well)

The closest I could find was an article by Mark Rosewater (Magic The Gathering designer).

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2002-03-08

I'm pretty sure that I'm a "Johnny".......but there seems to be too many "Spikes" these days.

Nobody laughs when I pull out three T65s here. If I pull out a list without one people ask what happened. I'm currently looking at regionals and shuffling a few T65s around to see if I find a new match. Odds are I'm flying Miranda and three Rookies again.

I just need to figure out crack swarms.... Only list I've yet to beat...

Where are you looking for players? If it's at tournaments, you're going to get tournament players playing tournament lists. Hopefully your area has a Facebook page or something, you can probably use that to organize some casual team epic, scenario play, or heroes of the aturi cluster. There's a lot of other possibilities out there.

Lately, I've been increasingly......irritated (?) with the meta of X-wing. Builds like Dengaroo and Palp Defenders are so common these days, the game is losing its charm. Is there a name of this phenomenon or explanation from a game design point of view? My background in gaming is RPGs (narrative) and wargames (scenario based). Is it simply that the 100 point 6 rock deathmatch was never my thing?

I do love X-wing, but its feeling increasingly hard to find a casual group these days. When you pull out a list of 3 T-65s, you're almost laughed at. (not to mention your ships being promptly sent off the board as well)

The closest I could find was an article by Mark Rosewater (Magic The Gathering designer).

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2002-03-08

I'm pretty sure that I'm a "Johnny".......but there seems to be too many "Spikes" these days.

Nobody laughs when I pull out three T65s here. If I pull out a list without one people ask what happened. I'm currently looking at regionals and shuffling a few T65s around to see if I find a new match. Odds are I'm flying Miranda and three Rookies again.

I just need to figure out crack swarms.... Only list I've yet to beat...

good for you?

Lately, I've been increasingly......irritated (?) with the meta of X-wing. Builds like Dengaroo and Palp Defenders are so common these days, the game is losing its charm. Is there a name of this phenomenon or explanation from a game design point of view? My background in gaming is RPGs (narrative) and wargames (scenario based). Is it simply that the 100 point 6 rock deathmatch was never my thing?

I do love X-wing, but its feeling increasingly hard to find a casual group these days. When you pull out a list of 3 T-65s, you're almost laughed at. (not to mention your ships being promptly sent off the board as well)

The closest I could find was an article by Mark Rosewater (Magic The Gathering designer).

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2002-03-08

I'm pretty sure that I'm a "Johnny".......but there seems to be too many "Spikes" these days.

Nobody laughs when I pull out three T65s here. If I pull out a list without one people ask what happened. I'm currently looking at regionals and shuffling a few T65s around to see if I find a new match. Odds are I'm flying Miranda and three Rookies again.

I just need to figure out crack swarms.... Only list I've yet to beat...

Get ion bombs on miranda. Swarms will NOT appreciate that

Lately, I've been increasingly......irritated (?) with the meta of X-wing. Builds like Dengaroo and Palp Defenders are so common these days, the game is losing its charm. Is there a name of this phenomenon or explanation from a game design point of view? My background in gaming is RPGs (narrative) and wargames (scenario based). Is it simply that the 100 point 6 rock deathmatch was never my thing?

I do love X-wing, but its feeling increasingly hard to find a casual group these days. When you pull out a list of 3 T-65s, you're almost laughed at. (not to mention your ships being promptly sent off the board as well)

The closest I could find was an article by Mark Rosewater (Magic The Gathering designer).

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2002-03-08

I'm pretty sure that I'm a "Johnny".......but there seems to be too many "Spikes" these days.

I had an eerily similar experience. I loved my triple X squadron because it was fun and it reminded me of the X-Wing series. Once my friends and I started really knowing how to play the lists ramped up until my Rogue Squadron was just a non-factor. My solution was to make a great list with builds I enjoyed flying but that involved a lot of time. It is always easier to just go with the Meta and tweak from there. However, I grew up playing board games with my dad and one of my favorites was Ace of Aces (technically not a board game but whatever) which is why I love X-Wing so much.

If you can't find some folks to play with, maybe solo the Aturi Cluster campaign. That was fun for me. I found an app on my phone that allowed me to do the enemy movements quickly. Once you get the hang of it you can make your own missions but we all know solo play isn't the most fun.

Reach out to board game stores and other areas where people may play. There are casual players everywhere (I hope).

In the meantime, just know I always carry a triple X squadron and whip it out whenever someone pulls out a casual list. I am definitely not alone there.

Where are you looking for players? If it's at tournaments, you're going to get tournament players playing tournament lists. Hopefully your area has a Facebook page or something, you can probably use that to organize some casual team epic, scenario play, or heroes of the aturi cluster. There's a lot of other possibilities out there.

I'm not a big tournament guy, but when I go to one I do know what to expect. There's a few stores in my area that host weekly x-wing nights, so I usually goto those. I enjoy the socializing as much as the game. People talk about Epic or HotAC, but it never really happens.

Shame you're not local to me.

We play in a large group of people who play for the story as much as the win.

We love playing thematic stuff and you often see stuff in out games that is 'not meta' because its fun.

I've flown t65s a lot lately, i also flew scyks before and post 'buff'

To me the game is as much about creating a story as having a 'killer list' , without the lore its a maths exercise with bits of plastic.

IF YOU ARE PLAYING STORY YOU ALREADY HAVE WON THE GAME... PERIOD!

If you don't like the meta, you don't like the game at all.

Literally every ship not named the punisher is 100% competitive right now.

Welcome to the X-Wing forum, a place where opinions and outright inaccuracies are spoken as gospel truth with alarming frequency.

I think there needs to be another group for X-Wing. I like the theme which is why I got into this game to begin with. But unlike the 'Johnny' I just don't really care if I build the squad or I get it from a book of squads. I like the scenarios and missions. For me this is where the game falls down in that when the scenarios came out they didn't include suggested prebuilt squads. I think a couple do but most do not.

• Timmy - Win big, dominate your opponent
• Johnny - Likes to create squads. I've noticed that some on these boards love the squad creation as much or even more than actually playing. They are creative that way.
• Spike - The tournament player. Like to win and plays the meta.
• Me - I like the theme and want to play an enjoyable game. I do play to win and enjoy it but if the game is good but I'm not put off by loosing either. I have a strong preference for missions and goals and tend to find the 100/6 death matches boring after a while. Occasional one up games but as a standard I prefer other games. I don't want to spend more time building squads than playing and honestly wish FFG would publish a booklet of missions with suggested prebuilt squads for all of them. We can always bring our own squad or tweak the suggested ones

But that's just me.

When a PS 2 rebel swarm and a 3 G1A starfighters can win regionals, I don't think the meta is as closed as you'd think.

A list with 2 wardens and 10 bombs made at least top 8 (maybe even top 4) at another regional.

If you don't like the meta, you don't like the game at all.

Literally every ship not named the punisher is 100% competitive right now.

Welcome to the X-Wing forum, a place where opinions and outright inaccuracies are spoken as gospel truth with alarming frequency.

So the Punisher is competitive? Awesome! I am still going to fly that Punisher/Daredevil list. Too bad none of them have an EPT. Maybe a red interceptor with daredevil EPT. To the Squad List sub-forum I go!

When a PS 2 rebel swarm and a 3 G1A starfighters can win regionals, I don't think the meta is as closed as you'd think.

A list with 2 wardens and 10 bombs made at least top 8 (maybe even top 4) at another regional.

Where I come from (Central Canada), things are a little rigid. certain ships really get no love.

examples:

U-Wing: regarded as DOA. people only buy them for 2 copies of Expertise.

A-wing: the little ship that can't. "even Prockets don't throw enough red dice anymore" said one player.

X-wing except Biggs: now you're just being silly.

B-wing, TIE Punisher/Bomber, E-Wing: those exist???

U-Wing: regarded as DOA. people only buy them for 2 copies of Expertise.

Does anyone know where I might get four copies of Expertise without buying the ship?

Swarm Leader looks cool too.

There is a time commitment to win with any squad. Even in a meta where most ships are viable there will still be a large number of netlisted squads that show up. Choosing a squad that has a record of performing well reduces the time investment required. A player still needs to get in reps with the squad to be good with it but they get to skip to the part where they are practicing instead of the having to build and test and improve the list through iteration.

If you are a player that wants to play a squad once or twice and then move on to the next thing that catches your eye then playing with tournament players who are essentially in practice mode could be very frustrating, no matter what the tournament meta is at the time.

When a PS 2 rebel swarm and a 3 G1A starfighters can win regionals, I don't think the meta is as closed as you'd think.

A list with 2 wardens and 10 bombs made at least top 8 (maybe even top 4) at another regional.

Where I come from (Central Canada), things are a little rigid. certain ships really get no love.

examples:

U-Wing: regarded as DOA. people only buy them for 2 copies of Expertise.

A-wing: the little ship that can't. "even Prockets don't throw enough red dice anymore" said one player.

X-wing except Biggs: now you're just being silly.

B-wing, TIE Punisher/Bomber, E-Wing: those exist???

I can't believe people still don't understand the A

it's

a

BLOCKER

relying on it to kill things is silly

When a PS 2 rebel swarm and a 3 G1A starfighters can win regionals, I don't think the meta is as closed as you'd think.

A list with 2 wardens and 10 bombs made at least top 8 (maybe even top 4) at another regional.

Where I come from (Central Canada), things are a little rigid. certain ships really get no love.

examples:

U-Wing: regarded as DOA. people only buy them for 2 copies of Expertise.

A-wing: the little ship that can't. "even Prockets don't throw enough red dice anymore" said one player.

X-wing except Biggs: now you're just being silly.

B-wing, TIE Punisher/Bomber, E-Wing: those exist???

I can't believe people still don't understand the A

it's

a

BLOCKER

relying on it to kill things is silly

But the best ships don't care much about getting blocked, really, so there's not much value there either.