After playing X-Wing almost exclusively for about 1,5 years our group took a break starting last summer playing other games.

During that half year it seems like the meta changed pretty dramaticly and there is quite a lot of variation, even more than before Triple Scouts became popular back then.

So my question would be, looking at all these diverse lists, how can it be that allstar popular lists from half a year ago or even older seem to have almost disappeared?

- Soontir, Vader and Co are almost gone

- haven't seen many TLT Y-Wings

- haven't seen Brobots yet

- Dash doesn't show up either

- for some reason the 4 Tie Bomber list couldn't take the spot that 3 Deadeye Scouts left

- the pretty pre-hyped Fenn Rau doesn't show up often too

- swarms with 5-8 ships seem to be pretty rare now

- haven't found a Stresshog anywhere

Tbh I wouldn't really bother much if the meta would consist of only 2-3 (favour of the month) lists that would define what's played and what's not. But since it seems to be pretty diverse I couldn't really find a reason why these former strong lists, pilots etc seem to have lost a lot in popularity.

Would be cool if someone could clarify, thanks a lot in advance

So my question would be, looking at all these diverse lists, how can it be that allstar popular lists from half a year ago or even older seem to have almost disappeared?

Powercreep.

*cough* x7 *cough*

There has been some cyclical balance (i.e. the paper-rock-scissors effect changing which pilots are most in favor), but most of the meta game change is due to a general inflation of the game's power curve.

Also, Fenn Rau is good when Mindlinked with Manaroo, making Top 8 at Worlds . The Parattanni variant (Mindlinked Fenn, Asajj, Manaroo) has also won a couple regionals. I made Top 4 with it (6-0 Swiss). It is itself an example of powercreep relative to the old guard, although not to the same extent that x7 Defenders were upon their arrival.

Well it is safe to say the three archetypes of previous metas (swarms, turrets, arc Dodgers) are not present neither are their off shoots (synergy, point fortresses, hard dice mitigation). Although when looking at the meta there is more of a focus on survivability and balance of power. You can't always count on your end game ship not dying first. You also can't count on A+B synergy always being there.

In response to your observations, from what I've seen in the last year and a half:

- Soontir, Vader, and company are still around plenty. But not in the abundance they used to be. More people are prepared to fly against them and there are more tools in the game now that hurt them.

- TLT Y-Wings are starting to make a comeback from their near extinction now that TorpScouts is gone. But again, more people know how to fly against them and exploint their weaknesses (aka, get into Range 1 as fast as possible or equip Autothrusters).

- Brobots have been having a tough time lately. Not gone, but rare.

- Dash+Ghost was getting pretty popular. I think it still is.

- 4 TIE Bombers don't have the same broken combination of upgrade slots that 3 Jumpmaster-5000's did.

- Fenn's out and about plenty, especially in Mindlinked lists. But he suffers from the same weaknesses that Soontir and company have been lately.

- Swarms are mentally taxing to fly, and I think that's why you don't see many these days when it's far easier and less mentally stressful to fly 3-4

ships.

- Stresshog has evolved into other forms. Looks more like an ARC-170 these days.

In addition to the general changes in power level and rock-paper-scissors of the meta, there will always be the "ooh shiny!" factor. People like playing with whatever is new. 2016 saw a lot of releases, and in particular, Imperial Veterans, Wave 9, Heroes of the Resistance, and the Rogue One tie-in ships all released within a six-month period. It's no surprise that people are focused on playing with the best of the best from those releases, even though there are still some older squads that are very competitive (e.g. Crack Swarm).

After playing X-Wing almost exclusively for about 1,5 years our group took a break starting last summer playing other games.

During that half year it seems like the meta changed pretty dramaticly and there is quite a lot of variation, even more than before Triple Scouts became popular back then.

So my question would be, looking at all these diverse lists, how can it be that allstar popular lists from half a year ago or even older seem to have almost disappeared?

- Soontir, Vader and Co are almost gone

- haven't seen many TLT Y-Wings

- haven't seen Brobots yet

- Dash doesn't show up either

- for some reason the 4 Tie Bomber list couldn't take the spot that 3 Deadeye Scouts left

- the pretty pre-hyped Fenn Rau doesn't show up often too

- swarms with 5-8 ships seem to be pretty rare now

- haven't found a Stresshog anywhere

Tbh I wouldn't really bother much if the meta would consist of only 2-3 (favour of the month) lists that would define what's played and what's not. But since it seems to be pretty diverse I couldn't really find a reason why these former strong lists, pilots etc seem to have lost a lot in popularity.

Would be cool if someone could clarify, thanks a lot in advance

Your meta seems odd. TLTs are not uncommon, Fenn Rau is everywhere, be it old man rau or as partner in crime for the shadowcaster or YV-666, Stress Bots are common on the arcs and an problem you have to consider, strangely I see them paired nearly always with a VCX-100, but still ... they are like a less successful gatekeeper which Soontir has issues to pass and naturally the big gatekeeper for every list are Palp Defenders with that x7 title.

What we do see is a rather big amount of lists which can be successful, which means you usually don't see the same lists in those top 16s, but rather a bigger variance + defenders.

And the biggest new thing: Mindlink everywhere, during worlds still rather rare it at least locally exploded, from Guri, Paratani, Old Man Rau and tons of other variances.

In response to your observations, from what I've seen in the last year and a half:

- Soontir, Vader, and company are still around plenty. But not in the abundance they used to be. More people are prepared to fly against them and there are more tools in the game now that hurt them.

- TLT Y-Wings are starting to make a comeback from their near extinction now that TorpScouts is gone. But again, more people know how to fly against them and exploint their weaknesses (aka, get into Range 1 as fast as possible or equip Autothrusters).

- Brobots have been having a tough time lately. Not gone, but rare.

- Dash+Ghost was getting pretty popular. I think it still is.

- 4 TIE Bombers don't have the same broken combination of upgrade slots that 3 Jumpmaster-5000's did.

- Fenn's out and about plenty, especially in Mindlinked lists. But he suffers from the same weaknesses that Soontir and company have been lately.

- Swarms are mentally taxing to fly, and I think that's why you don't see many these days when it's far easier and less mentally stressful to fly 3-4

ships.

- Stresshog has evolved into other forms. Looks more like an ARC-170 these days.

The mentally taxing label had always followed swarms around. They've disappeared from the meta because two attack dice just don't cut it anymore and there are too many ships that can wipe fragile ships off in one shot.

I think you might see some Rebel combination Z-95 TIE Fighter swarms Coming in the mix. You can't have more than 7 ships if you used all the named TIE Fighters. But you might see some Zed swarms with a couple of support TIEs such as Sabin Recon or Rex supressive fire.

- haven't seen many TLT Y-Wings

- haven't seen Brobots yet

- Dash doesn't show up either

- haven't found a Stresshog anywhere

These are all still good. The first three even have decent game against the ship-of-the-moment, the TIE Defender.

Soontir/Vader have just had way too many counters introduced. They'll still be around occasionally after they're done being scared off (like Phantoms), but they'll probably never be super dominant again (bad for them, good for the meta).

Bombers would probably fill the same role, but can be alpha-striked (alpha-struck?) easier themselves and struggle more against the other things in the list/at the top of the meta.

Fenn Rau is actually pretty good, in a couple variants. Not Soontir-at-his-peak good, but good.

Swarms are still and will always be good, but they also take a lot more effort to play and play well. Also, the nature of the game is that the more cards are released, the more combos appear, and swarms don't typically make much use of upgrades, meaning everyone but them gets better.

Finally, as noted, the current boogeyman is the maybe-a-little-too-good-for-everyone-else's-good TIE/x7 title.

The power creep in the last few waves has accelerated and has pushed out many of the older ships. x7 defenders combine the turtling defenses of Vader and Soontir with more health and access to white/green k-turns to generate higher offense by allowing more turns with guns on target. Palpatine further cements x7 defenders as highly reliable and difficult to kill. 3 agility + Focus + Evade requires multiple 3 hit attacks to break through reliably, or the brute force of 4+ hit attacks. Squads that cant generate this sort of offense reliably for most of the match are simply outclassed. The builds that remain viable are those that can 1) generate sufficient offense to punch through turtled defenders through mid-late game 2) can defensively withstand builds that can reliably generate that same level of firepower. So you need ships that are both high firepower and high durability.

There is no meta

There is only player skill

(Fill in the rest to resemble jedi/sith code)

There was a post about this a while back. Look it up. Absolutely hilarious.

Soontir fel I feel has mostly gone extinct by accident. The combination of scum throwing around tractor beam tokens and stress casually with little effort (thanks Asajj!) and things like black market slicer tools or the party bus hanging around to kill other ships has just pushed him right out. In general 1/2 of most scum lists (party bus or slicer tool Asajj) just punish him for existing and imperial lists have new toys which do better than him anyway (x7).

Basically enough imperial ships do similar things to soontir without being as easily countered so he has no place.

The mentally taxing label had always followed swarms around. They've disappeared from the meta because two attack dice just don't cut it anymore and there are too many ships that can wipe fragile ships off in one shot.

That, plus Attani Mindlink and TIE/x7.

As a swarm player, I can say these two cards are my biggest problems - because the classic response to a hard-to-hit target with a 2-attack-die swarm is to block them, deny them actions, and then hammer them; an approach which doesn't work because the ships still get evade and focus tokens, even if blocked and stressed.

Plus, there is a real increase in power coming at the 15-20 point level ships; the increase in capability of a TIE/fo over a standard TIE fighter is ridiculous, but the striker and quadjumper are equally likely to be nasty. The quadjumper's ability to hand out tractor tokens like candy may well be a way to bring the swarm back - I'm considering a Trucking Company as my first foray into scum.

So my question would be, looking at all these diverse lists, how can it be that allstar popular lists from half a year ago or even older seem to have almost disappeared?

Powercreep.

*cough* x7 *cough*

There has been some cyclical balance (i.e. the paper-rock-scissors effect changing which pilots are most in favor), but most of the meta game change is due to a general inflation of the game's power curve.

Also, Fenn Rau is good when Mindlinked with Manaroo, making Top 8 at Worlds . The Parattanni variant (Mindlinked Fenn, Asajj, Manaroo) has also won a couple regionals. I made Top 4 with it (6-0 Swiss). It is itself an example of powercreep relative to the old guard, although not to the same extent that x7 Defenders were upon their arrival.

When I started playing X-Wing this time last year everyone was saying power creep didn't exist.

It's been SO rampant in 2016 that you can't really deny it any more. 2016 pretty much killed 2011-2015.

The mentally taxing label had always followed swarms around. They've disappeared from the meta because two attack dice just don't cut it anymore and there are too many ships that can wipe fragile ships off in one shot.

That, plus Attani Mindlink and TIE/x7.

As a swarm player, I can say these two cards are my biggest problems - because the classic response to a hard-to-hit target with a 2-attack-die swarm is to block them, deny them actions, and then hammer them; an approach which doesn't work because the ships still get evade and focus tokens, even if blocked and stressed.

It's Defenders AND Anti-Defenders. The big attacks that people are swinging at high-PS to injure Defenders means your TIE Swarm gets flattened before you even get to fire. GL after that!

Soontir fel I feel has mostly gone extinct by accident. The combination of scum throwing around tractor beam tokens and stress casually with little effort (thanks Asajj!) and things like black market slicer tools or the party bus hanging around to kill other ships has just pushed him right out. In general 1/2 of most scum lists (party bus or slicer tool Asajj) just punish him for existing and imperial lists have new toys which do better than him anyway (x7).

Basically enough imperial ships do similar things to soontir without being as easily countered so he has no place.

And /x7 Defenders beat him up (see Aussie Nats final).

I've never been massively into the meta as I'm not interested in competitive play, but I have still noticed a definite power creep in the past year. Certain things will always hold the older ships back, as they can't include concepts that didn't exist when they were first created.

So my question would be, looking at all these diverse lists, how can it be that allstar popular lists from half a year ago or even older seem to have almost disappeared?

Powercreep.

*cough* x7 *cough*

There has been some cyclical balance (i.e. the paper-rock-scissors effect changing which pilots are most in favor), but most of the meta game change is due to a general inflation of the game's power curve.

Also, Fenn Rau is good when Mindlinked with Manaroo, making Top 8 at Worlds . The Parattanni variant (Mindlinked Fenn, Asajj, Manaroo) has also won a couple regionals. I made Top 4 with it (6-0 Swiss). It is itself an example of powercreep relative to the old guard, although not to the same extent that x7 Defenders were upon their arrival.

When I started playing X-Wing this time last year everyone was saying power creep didn't exist.

It's been SO rampant in 2016 that you can't really deny it any more. 2016 pretty much killed 2011-2015.

I would not say that 2011-2015 are killed, a lot of old ships are part of the powercreep via new upgrade cards. I mean, who would have thought that a starviper, a hwk-290 with a third ship become a power list in 2016/2017? ;-)

But I think it's a mistake to attach it to the ships and ignore the upgrades. When the Raider brought us Advanced Targeting Computer and Vader came back it wasn't a 2011 build anymore, it was a 2015 build. If you're talking Mindlink then any Attani Mindlink list is a 2016 list, because that list didn't exist in anything like it's current form before 2016.

The problem with the reliance on fixes is that it puts off newer players who hear that they need to buy B & C to make A work, especially A is the most shiny iconic ship which attracted them to the game. Yes people can print cards out, but that's not necessarily what people think of initially.

But I think it's a mistake to attach it to the ships and ignore the upgrades. When the Raider brought us Advanced Targeting Computer and Vader came back it wasn't a 2011 build anymore, it was a 2015 build. If you're talking Mindlink then any Attani Mindlink list is a 2016 list, because that list didn't exist in anything like it's current form before 2016.

Absolutely, I did not denied that there is powercreep. Well I did in early 2015, but there is a certain increase of the curve and it became undeniable with x7, jumpmasters, and a few other ships. At the same time a lot of the old stuff becomes valid via the new upgrades, stuff that had been below the curve for quite a time, so they overall are increasing the curve to adjust mostly for the most powerful stuff which had been there from the beginning. It seems that the overall balance seems to improving despite the power creep.