So after the release of wave V, I was ecstatic to start using the Lambda shuttles. I've had a few chances to play now, running two close to each other giving me essentially 4 units to activate in range 1-3 of the shuttles (2 each). Now during one of the matches, the opponent contested that there would be a restriction on the activation range of the relay host.

For instance:

I deployed an ISD and 2 Gozantis facing left, but using fighter ambush deployed my fighters just out of distance 5 of my opponents player edge. He was first player and activated a ship first. On my activation I had 4 tie bombers within range 2 of both Lambda shuttles. I activated the ISD revealing a squadron command, so with squadron command 4 I used the relay ability to move my bombers within range 1 of his ship and attack.

**He contested**

That this move was not legal, because the Lambda shuttles were not within activation range, and that the Lambda itself would need to be distance 1-3 of my ISD (or distance 1-5 with boosted coms) in order to relay. He argued due to the standard rules of squadron activation, in order for the ability to be usable the squadron would have to be within activation range.

We tried looking on this forum but there wasn't a ruling yet, so I made the point that just like abilities on upgrade cards, they supersede standard rules, and that there was no range limitation or activation requirement in the wording of Relay. We agreed to play it my way, and continued on, but I'd like to hear thoughts.

TLDR:

Does the Lambda shuttle have to be within the activating ship's activation range to grant Relay?

"Relay 2. (When a friendly ship resolves a [squadron command], up to 2 of the squadrons it activates can be at distance 1-3 of you.)"

There is no distance requirement for Relay. It has for all intents and purposes limitless range.

You were right, he was wrong.

His argument doesn't follow, unless I'm missing something. If it were supposed to work the way he suggests, the ability would say "when a friendly ship at distance X ..." or "when this squadron is activated...".

Look at it this way: you're not activating the VCX, so there's no constraint that it be within activation range.

Furthemore, You are Distance 1-3 of yourself. So you totally can activate the Lambda itself with a Relayed Command Through Itself. Anywhere on the Table.

The only statement of Range, is that the Squadrons that are being activated, are within Distance 1-3 of the Lambda.

Full Stop.

End of Story.

I thought so, but I figured it was best to bounce ideas.

Thanks guys

For what it is worth I initially thought as your opponent did but quickly came to the conclusion it was the consensus here. Relay is very cool in that you can allow a wing of squadrons to work away from your ships.

For what it is worth I initially thought as your opponent did but quickly came to the conclusion it was the consensus here. Relay is very cool in that you can allow a wing of squadrons to work away from your ships.

And actually makes Fighter Ambush a cool objective for the right kind of list

Relay is the best squadron keyword ever, if only to help alleviate the *** CLusTER_BaLL *** that occurs with carrier fleets.

I think it is even better/worse than that. Rely is only limited per squadron command. If I have 10 TIE Bombers all within distance 3 of a single Lambda, I believe I can activate all of them with 5 Squadron commands (dials) from 5 separate Flotillas on the other side of the play area all through that single Lambda.

If I am wrong based on the wording of the card, or the RAW, please letme know, but for the moment I am confident I am right.

I think it is even better/worse than that. Rely is only limited per squadron command. If I have 10 TIE Bombers all within distance 3 of a single Lambda, I believe I can activate all of them with 5 Squadron commands (dials) from 5 separate Flotillas on the other side of the play area all through that single Lambda.

If I am wrong based on the wording of the card, or the RAW, please letme know, but for the moment I am confident I am right.

You're correct. Just toss in another Lambda or the Centicore title on an Arquitens and you can channel an entire VSD or ISD Squadron command through Relays or fake Relays.

Absolutely No "Per Turn" Limit on it, either.

Its why my Yavaris fleets will have 2 VCXs...


So I can channel both of those Squadron commands, through different VCXs, to make 2 Squadrons Double-Tap, while Yavaris safely hides somewhere.

Absolutely No "Per Turn" Limit on it, either.

Its why my Yavaris fleets will have 2 VCXs...

So I can channel both of those Squadron commands, through different VCXs, to make 2 Squadrons Double-Tap, while Yavaris safely hides somewhere.

YES! I was thinking the same thing. While Yavaris can't take boosted comms you can still relay to keep it safe and have it's effect in play for longer.

Maybe put Adar Tallon in there so one of those can activate a third time?

If you're not taking a third Relay you won't be using someone like Raymus.

I agree right now there is no limit to the range on the shuttle, so a gonz with the admiral can be trigger squadron from the other side of the table.

I really wonder though if the shuttle should be within normal comm range, as it make the ship really really nice.

I was talked into a few 600 point games and one of them was basically 200 points of bombers all activating off relay lol

if it required the Relay ship to be within medium range then Relay is completely pointless as now you have to keep that ship at your outer edge and not in the fights just outside of your reach. The odds of you benefiting from that is insanely low.

I have a question regarding relay can ship upgrades such as Yavaris or bomber command center work through the relay command. Example my Yavaris is at distance 7 of my ywings but vxc is disatance 1, so relays squadron command to activate ywing. ywing rolls a blank but bomber command relays through to allow a reroll. Than Adar Tallon resets ywing. transport squadron commands relays through vxc activate ywing rolls a blank so bomber command allows reroll?

The only thing that will work through the Relay, is the Squadron Commands of the Ship.

Which means, Upgrades on the Ship doing the Squadron Command, such as Flight Controllers, Adar Tallon or Yavaris , WILL work on Relay'd Squadrons, so long as those upgrades work during Squadron Commands, or on Squadrons that are activated by this ship .

But Relay does not work for anything else , such as Bomber Command.

Bomber command does not have the Squadron Command Header, so it has no effect on the Squadron Command.

On 5/1/2017 at 4:45 AM, Drasnighta said:

Absolutely No "Per Turn" Limit on it, either.

Its why my Yavaris fleets will have 2 VCXs...


So I can channel both of those Squadron commands, through different VCXs, to make 2 Squadrons Double-Tap, while Yavaris safely hides somewhere.

That sounds like a fancy and hell expensive combo.

Sorry to Necromance here...but I just fought against a cancerous list that had a relay push a defender and rhymerball crossed the board whilst his five activation's hid.

He basically pushed 10 activation through a single lamb...and you couldn't stop it even if it was engaged....that's just...wow...I almost say it's borderline broken.

Then again it pushes me to be even more ruthless with a Rebel build that just turtles and goes for winning the long distance squadron game.

10 minutes ago, Gottmituns205 said:

He basically pushed 10 activation through a single lamb...

No alpha strike = kill them back at your leisure.

12 minutes ago, Gottmituns205 said:

and you couldn't stop it even if it was engaged...

Why not? Intel? If it's all defenders, there's no escort, so just kill the Intel.

Just now, Ardaedhel said:

No alpha strike = kill them back at your leisure.

Why not? Intel? If it's all defenders, there's no escort, so just kill the Intel.

No he got to alpha two defenders in that locked down my 5 a-wings (tycho was the six.) He killed two a-wings out right...then fed the rest in 2 at a time. Just the whole activation range with those things is...wow.

I did however shut down said ball with tycho and shera and took it apart in detail. It was just the tactic of said push.

Assuming we're talking Lambda + 6 Defenders + Rhymer, he's invested very heavily into antisquadron. The defenders are also bombers, sure, but the vast majority of their points are in the anti-fighter stats. 128-point investment for an average of 6 anti-ship damage is pretty steep. You have a number of options:

- Ignore the squadron game and go fast, heavy anti-ship fire toting accuracy tech or overwhelming fire. MC30s, Gladiators, Raiders, Liberties, ISDs, TRC90s. Or CR90B rammers.

- Alpha the Lambda to shut down his activation channel.

- Alpha Rhymer to shut down his ranged bombing.

- Tie him up with aces, especially scatter/counter or high hull brace/counter. BkBkBuBu means low chance of an accuracy to lock out scatter.

Defenders are a stupid-good combination of speed, hull, and AA punch, but they do have weaknesses. Relay similarly is good, but also remember that the Lambda is 15 points of raw throughput off the top of their squadron cap.

4 hours ago, Gottmituns205 said:

No he got to alpha two defenders in that locked down my 5 a-wings (tycho was the six.) He killed two a-wings out right...then fed the rest in 2 at a time. Just the whole activation range with those things is...wow.

I did however shut down said ball with tycho and shera and took it apart in detail. It was just the tactic of said push.

Kill the shuttle, win the game.

This is all you have to do. All of his squadrons are related to the shuttle. without the shuttle, they fly harmless around.

And 5 A-Wings + Tycho is no match to a 130+ squadron list.
I said it before and will say again. Only squadrons can handle squadrons. This is even more true with the relay and the insane good (even though expensive) Tie Defender.

3 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Assuming we're talking Lambda + 6 Defenders + Rhymer, he's invested very heavily into antisquadron. The defenders are also bombers, sure, but the vast majority of their points are in the anti-fighter stats. 128-point investment for an average of 6 anti-ship damage is pretty steep. You have a number of options:

- Ignore the squadron game and go fast, heavy anti-ship fire toting accuracy tech or overwhelming fire. MC30s, Gladiators, Raiders, Liberties, ISDs, TRC90s. Or CR90B rammers.

- Alpha the Lambda to shut down his activation channel.

- Alpha Rhymer to shut down his ranged bombing.

- Tie him up with aces, especially scatter/counter or high hull brace/counter. BkBkBuBu means low chance of an accuracy to lock out scatter.

Defenders are a stupid-good combination of speed, hull, and AA punch, but they do have weaknesses. Relay similarly is good, but also remember that the Lambda is 15 points of raw throughput off the top of their squadron cap.

i would prefer 4 Defender + Rhymer + Stele + jendon.
It is 6 points less (121), but has the same (if not even more) damage output. It is just one squadron less, but you have still 13 points for a Valen Rudor, Tie Advanced or Saber Squadron. And the damge output on ships goes up like mad with it.
Only drawback, there is no more strategic in this squadron list.

But yes. It is all build around the shuttle.

Oh believe me, I know how to counter the squadron relay ball, I was just totally caught off guard on how effective it could be. I do however think if the shuttle were engaged it couldn't relay...but then it just makes it pretty useless.

I'll be dumping the a-wing swarm and bring the X-wing/Biggs/Jan ball of fun...cause you know...X-wings.

I've switched to two YT-1300's to trade for some of the X-Wings to fly cover for Jan or other Aces. That massive hull AND counter 1? Brutal.