As someone who knows and regularly plays Ben, this whole thing is super funny to read, because it's an obvious case of sour grapes with extra salt.

Ben is a good player who you guys know on here. I'd be frustrated too if I weren't very good and had to play Ben all the time.

You must the guy from Killeen.

No, I'm the ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi. No one can hear me but you. They all think you're talking to yourself.

Ben is a *****, ************!

OP: from what you are posting, it sounds like this Ben is scoping out your list before a game, then changing his list to suit.

This is IMO cheating.

The rules state when the lists are revealed; and they are revealed at the same time, and you cant change them midsetup. If this is what this guy is doing, its terrible sportsmanship and may be considered cheating.

Alright let me have a go at this ben bashing...

Stupid ******* piece 'o **** ****** ****!!!1 Ben you ****-******* bad mother **********. Eat **** and ******* then ***** your ******* on a *****-****** with ***** marshmallow ********!

FFG auto censor... I applaud you.

OH NO!!! The dreaded double post how embarrassing.

Gotta be careful bud. Complaints against players can easily be confused with complaints about a game. In your case "Ben" played you and he did you wrong. He basically created a skew list to completely take advantage of your meta of 1. In a healthy community he couldn't do that because he'd get rocked by somebody else. You may say that is "rock, paper, scissors" but no game out there except maybe chess and checkers doesn't provide an advantage of some kind when someone takes a build to exactly counter "you." Most game counter to this to some effect by by game mechanics. In X-wing this is helped by the maneuver dials and arcs. In Armada this is supposed to be done in the maneuver phase, hence why many people view the navigate command and initiative as so powerful. In both case if you maneuver better it doesn't matter you took a janky build. Both games have ways to mitigate that as well (turrets in X-Wing, Fighters in Armada). Then they both have ways to counter those counters, and it goes on and on.

Thanks though for "Ben." At the rate this is going I'm pretty sure every time someone complains about something people will just type BEN!

OP: from what you are posting, it sounds like this Ben is scoping out your list before a game, then changing his list to suit.

This is IMO cheating.

The rules state when the lists are revealed; and they are revealed at the same time, and you cant change them midsetup. If this is what this guy is doing, its terrible sportsmanship and may be considered cheating.

There have been a couple of mentions of this, and OP has conspicuously not corrected any of them.

Let me propose an alternate scenario. Two guys play each other exclusively all the time; one refuses to change his list, the other brings something different every time. Even if he's not doing it intentionally, the guy who's changing is going to gravitate toward certain things that he's seen work well. These will necessarily be the things that counter his opponent, because his opponent is the extent of his experience with the game. So he shows up with a list that works well against his opponent, who continues to refuse to change his list on some kind of principle.

This is pretty much the definition of refusing to adapt to a shifting meta, just between two guys.

I have a friend I play all the time who runs XI7 on everything always when he plays me because he knows I'm virtually guaranteed to have an MC30 in my list. Is that poor sportsmanship, or adapting to a meta?

OP: from what you are posting, it sounds like this Ben is scoping out your list before a game, then changing his list to suit.

This is IMO cheating.

The rules state when the lists are revealed; and they are revealed at the same time, and you cant change them midsetup. If this is what this guy is doing, its terrible sportsmanship and may be considered cheating.

There have been a couple of mentions of this, and OP has conspicuously not corrected any of them.

Let me propose an alternate scenario. Two guys play each other exclusively all the time; one refuses to change his list, the other brings something different every time. Even if he's not doing it intentionally, the guy who's changing is going to gravitate toward certain things that he's seen work well. These will necessarily be the things that counter his opponent, because his opponent is the extent of his experience with the game. So he shows up with a list that works well against his opponent, who continues to refuse to change his list on some kind of principle.

This is pretty much the definition of refusing to adapt to a shifting meta, just between two guys.

I have a friend I play all the time who runs XI7 on everything always when he plays me because he knows I'm virtually guaranteed to have an MC30 in my list. Is that poor sportsmanship, or adapting to a meta?

In the example as you propose above, this I would actually consider good tactics. If the situation is that the OP always brings the same list, never changes, and his opponent is adapting as they go along to take advantage, this is valid tactics. If however, they are showing up at the store, the OP sets up, and then, after his fleet is revealed, his opponent then crafts a list to take advantage, then this is cheating.

A marked difference, here. Good points.

OP: from what you are posting, it sounds like this Ben is scoping out your list before a game, then changing his list to suit.

This is IMO cheating.

The rules state when the lists are revealed; and they are revealed at the same time, and you cant change them midsetup. If this is what this guy is doing, its terrible sportsmanship and may be considered cheating.

There have been a couple of mentions of this, and OP has conspicuously not corrected any of them.

Let me propose an alternate scenario. Two guys play each other exclusively all the time; one refuses to change his list, the other brings something different every time. Even if he's not doing it intentionally, the guy who's changing is going to gravitate toward certain things that he's seen work well. These will necessarily be the things that counter his opponent, because his opponent is the extent of his experience with the game. So he shows up with a list that works well against his opponent, who continues to refuse to change his list on some kind of principle.

This is pretty much the definition of refusing to adapt to a shifting meta, just between two guys.

I have a friend I play all the time who runs XI7 on everything always when he plays me because he knows I'm virtually guaranteed to have an MC30 in my list. Is that poor sportsmanship, or adapting to a meta?

It just sounds lonely.

Oh wait, my handle on grammar was far too superior. I don't want to be accused by the OP of cheating. Allow me to correct my earlier statement.

It jest sounds ronely.

There. Much better.

As for scaring off new players,

it does have a pricier entry level, if you want to buy.

I have way more money than sense, so we can each pick two entire builds out of my collection and decide which to play.

(no cost to new players)

Want to get someone into the game?

Pull out a VSD and put it on the table, then pull out an ISD.

Hook, line and sinker.

What I funny as I validated everyone by saying I am a troll and then said in a roundabout way " Hey you so smart then why do you keep taunting and just not post so that a serious discussion may develop" and a few posts later someone insults my intelligence. Really starting to wonder who troll is I thought it was me? I guess I am wrong about this too.

What I funny as I validated everyone by saying I am a troll and then said in a roundabout way " Hey you so smart then why do you keep taunting and just not post so that a serious discussion may develop" and a few posts later someone insults my intelligence. Really starting to wonder who troll is I thought it was me? I guess I am wrong about this too.

What?

What I funny as I validated everyone by saying I am a troll and then said in a roundabout way " Hey you so smart then why do you keep taunting and just not post so that a serious discussion may develop" and a few posts later someone insults my intelligence. Really starting to wonder who troll is I thought it was me? I guess I am wrong about this too.

What?

Ben.

For those of you just joining us, here is your TLDR; OP and his friend at a FLGS agree Armada is in bad shape and needs fixed. Another guy named Ben has won a couple games against OP clearly confirming OPs original statement. This thread imploded upon itself in response. Ben has not yet responded to requests for interview. Overwhelming opinion is that it's probably all Ben's fault.

Can confirm. Force ghost Ben just told me he did it on purpose to kill Armada.

As for scaring off new players,

it does have a pricier entry level, if you want to buy.

I have way more money than sense, so we can each pick two entire builds out of my collection and decide which to play.

(no cost to new players)

Want to get someone into the game?

Pull out a VSD and put it on the table, then pull out an ISD.

Hook, line and sinker.

As for scaring off new players,

it does have a pricier entry level, if you want to buy.

I have way more money than sense, so we can each pick two entire builds out of my collection and decide which to play.

(no cost to new players)

Want to get someone into the game?

Pull out a VSD and put it on the table, then pull out an ISD.

Hook, line and sinker.

and they quit when they realize they can't use it much. At least until the meta change after fighter heavy build knock out the MSUs then naked large ships will return until the fighter heavy builds die off and MSUs comeback. Wait sounds like Rock Paper Scissors.

That's called an evolving meta.

It's also affected by new releases.

It's a design feature of most FFG games.

Hey, OP. Could you share with us the predominant list(s) you have been running?

Second Warlord Zepnick - BladeWing, please share your lists so we can constructively help you/ maybe reignite your passion for the game? (and in the process defeat the predations of the new evil stalking the land that is Ben)

Story time. Post one word after mine.

Ben

Story time. Post one word after mine.

Ben

ate

The game is basically dead in both locales. In KY (I still have friends back there) there are no tourneys, and hardly anyone ever plays anymore.

Anecdote vs. anecdote - I'm playing in three Armada tournaments in the next couple of months, and there are two full Corellian Conflict campaigns starting up here this weekend. (Louisville, for the record.)

When seeing these post I really know we need a new article from FFG about Armada.

Please save us from our selves:-)