Armada is not nearly as meta as X-Wing is. I don't say that as a biased Armada player, I say that as someone who really wanted to get into X-Wing once upon a time a couple months ago. Here's the difference in Armada you can build a list however you want and typically you can pull through. You really like a particular way a ship looks you go for it. Obviously there are more optimal fleet lists and ship combinations for the most efficient synergy but typically you have a wide range to pull from. You really like Rebel Transports, theres a way to make that work. In X-Wing it seems that if you want to be competitive you have to pick specific ships.

This is most evident anytime new players ask in the respective forums what to get. In Armada the answer is typically, get a few squadron packs and then whatever you like the look of. X-Wing its always very specific. Get the Imperial Aces then the Tie Advance expansion and so on. If you really like the way a certain ship looks and its not a part of the meta well good luck ever playing that ship!

CC is step in the right direction. In fact the limit on upgrades in the looks like a fix is starting to happen. But the small ship fighter dominance is not good.

myself i respectefuly disagree and i explain why.

lets say i want to use a VSD because i like the model. the VSD indeed is a bad ship; but upgrade cards are SO IMPORTANT in this game, that i can pick meta-relevant upgrade cards and make it awesome. do carriers rule this meta? sure, flight controllers and expanded hangar bay are awesome. do gunships rule the meta? again tons of gunship-oriented upgrades.

if upgrades were not more important than ship choices, then the bad ships would never se play. w would be seeing models be useless and stay on the shelf as in x-wing (and most other games).

CC is step in the right direction. In fact the limit on upgrades in the looks like a fix is starting to happen. But the small ship fighter dominance is not good.

Good news! We're about to see a meta shift thanks to wave 5. I think fighter dominance is going to be challenged by the Flechette Torpedo on the Raider I. Small ship dominance is mostly driven by flotillas, which are already seeing counters from a good ol' wave one upgrade: H9 Turbolasers. Drop those XI7s on your ISD for H9s and you will be a happy man. Think the VSD is crap? Well good thing this is the "Make Victories Great Again" wave. Between Jerjerrod and Tua, the VSD is better than ever.

what really challenges mass bomber wings imho is the combination of snipe, more powerful aces and reinforced blast doors giving large ships the capability to withstand some more "death by a thousand cuts" punishment.

also Strategic: if you play a mass force of just bombers & escorts, you wont be investing in strategic, and certain objectives can turn to a living hell (esp for a list with less points in ships) without it.

Wait so a list built to take advantage of your list's specific weaknesses means Armada is Rock paper scissors? Dude I have played against and beaten lists specifically built to beat mine but I have still won. I have played list built to beat the list I was up against some and still lost. The list bulding is important but no lists is an auto win against another.

I run to the problem in xwing all the time but Armada it is way to much of an issue. Having the wrong build should be a pain but not 9 in 10 chance of a blow out.

Yeah man, but like, back that claim up. Give an example. Use those persuasive essay skills. When somebody makes an argument about something and tells you what will happen in "9 in 10" occasions, but doesn't get into any specifics, it's reasonable to dismiss that argument entirely.

I will absolutely challenge your claims here. Tell me what fleet lists you think are "wrong builds" against each other, and I'll tell you how skill will matter more than fleet composition. I mean, you could probably make an unwinnable fleet list if you deliberately set out to do it (all unarmed GR-75s or something), but skill--and deployment is a skill--is the real winner.

Pardon me for getting pointed about it, but I kinda think you can't get more specific because this is a vague feeling and because this supposed trend really wouldn't play out as any kind of systemic pattern if we ventured beyond your anecdotal experience hanging out with X-Wing players at the local game store. I really don't think you have played Armada enough to understand.

i find it hard to believe armada is unbalanced and all about list contruction compared to xwing, i played it up until armada came out then ended up droping xwing altogether.

you cant just dismiss the fact that xwing has dozens of ships upgrade cards that got pushed to useless and never even considered, its been like this since around wave 5, meanwhile armada at wave 5 was only a handful of cards that arent used just cause they are too narrow, not that they are useless(except point defence reroutes.....)

and dont even think about slaming the armada tournament system, meta or list construction when for like 2 years the only lists you could viably take competitively were 2 large ships, and most of those involved the falcon and c3po card(which at the time could only be gained from a expensive epic ship), was just soo stale and univiting to the point where they had to overhaul xwings tournament rules just to create some variety(not too much has changed either).

but the main thing that pushed me away from xwing is just how toxic their general community is, its all must win at all costs(which is due to their tournament structure) and rules issues from soo many poorly written upgrades. over the 500+ xwing games i played the game just got to the point where skill has little to do with the victory. i have yet to face a nasty armada player here in Australia, some are a little sour but none offputting like my xwing experiences

currently been loving armada so far, most of the things added to the game are balanced, nothing is blatantly overpowered right now, list building requires finding a skillful balance of shops and squadrons, going too heavy in one direction gets you punished. with the 6 turn limit the game forces you to make tactical risks whereas xwing is just kill one guy and run all game.

while i dont like flotilla spam its manageable really, but new wave new meta to figure out then counter to said meta

armada is fine as it is, just a case of stop treating it like xwing, you actually need to think in this game

I think (without hearing anything about what your lists are) the rock paper scissor thing might be due to extremist building? If you play the same dude over and over you will sometimes run into the whole Cold War arms race thing, where you start hard countering everything that beat you up last time. I don't do this personally, but I have seen it done. If you make sure your objectives are really great for whatever list you come up with, then you don't need to worry as much about any rock-paper-scissor balancing. This game takes a lot of time to suss out all the nuances.

Take the ships you like, play with them enough to learn what works and what doesn't, and then figure out those objectives that work best. Anyone who thinks they have an unbeatable list in this day and age is in for disappointment IMHO. The game as is right now is the best it has ever been, with everything viable, and enough choices out there where you can't have the answers to everything in one list.

ok then why when facing mc30 frigates and opening up with four good front arc shots from two ISDs do end the round with the mc30s healthy despite rolling some good hits and one dead or dying ISD. Well because of three cards APT and the titles. I am not even talking about the most broken card of all that still an auto include on any gladiator. Which btw which have you heard of this ship before armada doubt it. It was mainly seen in an eighties cartoon and little since.

I for one am appalled by the rampant Ben bashing in this thread. In my experience I have never once met a Ben that wasn't an absolute stand up guy. I recognize that there may be a bad Ben apple out there somewhere but let's not take the bate and now label/stereotype all Ben's out there as responsible for mass malfeasance and skullduggery potentially killing the great tactical game of Armada.

In short not all Ben's are alike, Just give a Ben a chance!

Sincerely,

Ben

Ref. particular lists being better than others, i have recent (slightly painful) relevant experience of this.

I took my wonderful, zero fighters Liberty with TRC90s and Slicer flotillas swarm (7 ships i think it was) to a local Organised Play event, thinking i was The Sh1t, (and still did even when people winced at my lack of fighter cover). After losing 10/1 and 6/5 (and the 6/5 was to a wave 1 Victory list ), i thought "oh dear, a zero fighters list just cant cut it...". But then i looked at the top table/ no.1 and 2 players battling it out for top dog.

One of them had near exactly the same list bar a different admiral. Even his Lib was tooled up the same. And there he was on the cusp of defeating a swarm of flight controlled, stacked bomber commanded B Wings and Scurgs (as it happened he lost, but only just).

Moral of the story? As with all these things it comes down to the player, not the list. A better player took my list and nearly won the whole thing, whilst with all the wave 3/4 toys i couldn't defeat a wave 1 Victory list (a low point of my Armada career for sure).

The OP needs to play more games, enjoy the losses and learn from them. Its nice to win, and not always fun getting tabled, but i'd rather have a hard fought, close but fun game than obsess over creating a meta defining/ defeating list.

ok then why when facing mc30 frigates and opening up with four good front arc shots from two ISDs do end the round with the mc30s healthy despite rolling some good hits and one dead or dying ISD. Well because of three cards APT and the titles. I am not even talking about the most broken card of all that still an auto include on any gladiator. Which btw which have you heard of this ship before armada doubt it. It was mainly seen in an eighties cartoon and little since.

two ISDs on red range wont do much- however, a well-upgraded powerful ship can annihilate the mc30s at blue range. but getting that blue range is an art. it requires support by other activations/ships and good maneuvering (no large ship should ever be viable unsupported in a wargame ).

bear in mind that 4 standard-build mc30s cost 300-320 points. 2 standard-built ISDs cost 260-290 points. mc30 is basicaly a medium ship, threat-wise and cost-wise.

Lol

ok then why when facing mc30 frigates and opening up with four good front arc shots from two ISDs do end the round with the mc30s healthy despite rolling some good hits and one dead or dying ISD. Well because of three cards APT and the titles. I am not even talking about the most broken card of all that still an auto include on any gladiator. Which btw which have you heard of this ship before armada doubt it. It was mainly seen in an eighties cartoon and little since.

Haven't been scared of Demolisher since flotillas came out. Park a flotilla in its path and laugh as it fails to generate accuracies. APTs will get a massive nerf with Damage Control Officer. You better believe I'm going to be packing that upgrade on every large ship I bring. Sure, the MC30 titles are good, but they're also expensive. Even then, Admonition can only cancel a single die per shot (you cannot discard multiple defense tokens in a single shot, got that wrong myself for a while). Foresight crumbles at close range even with Mon Mothma.

...about this rock paper scissor thing...

Once I went to a tourney with a 5-ship list, with Vader on an ISD and a measly 2 TIEs for fighter cover. So pretty close to an all-ship list.

In the final round, on the top table I played vs. a Rieekan bomber list.

How does the rock paper scissor thing apply here?

Did my all-ship hold the advantage - or his heavy bomber?

By common "wisdom" bomber swarm beats all ship, no?

A pretty clear-cut case really. Few more so.

Except it was nothing of the sort. Everything hung in the balance until the very last moment of round 6.

So really, there was NO rock paper scissor thing...only two very different playstyles clashing...could he cut me to pieces before I could table his ships?

ok then why when facing mc30 frigates and opening up with four good front arc shots from two ISDs do end the round with the mc30s healthy despite rolling some good hits and one dead or dying ISD. Well because of three cards APT and the titles. I am not even talking about the most broken card of all that still an auto include on any gladiator. Which btw which have you heard of this ship before armada doubt it. It was mainly seen in an eighties cartoon and little since.

In regards to Rebel's having tricks (Like Admonition/Lando on a MC30) I just had the "pleasure" of playing first round as Rebels in two games of CC - without our Gimmicks we get rolled HARD by the Imperials straight up superior firepower. Rebels rely on gimmicks and hit and run (MC30's) to get an edge. Remember 4 out of your 8 dice on an ISD2 are reds, which can easily blank or roll 6+ damage and if it is at long range vs say a Foresight it will just cancel 2 of your good dice. - Speaking of CC I played one game vs 3 Vic's and lost by 22 points. As their front arcs are still powerful (amazing with Vader and H9's actually) and I had an MC80 Assault cruiser which has a better front arc but I just had bad rolls compared to his. Remember like X-wing it is a Dice game, you can roll huge or roll nothing.

Why the hate on a ship that is not seen often? "Because it isn't in the movies" ?

Also if your opponent is changing his list to better counter yours before the game that is a problem with your opponent - we play locally and we build a list the night or however long before - bring that list and do not change it.

I find that there are lots of viable lists these days - but I am finding more and more I am enjoying having around 80-120 points of Squadrons to help either against ships or squadrons or going for some 4/5 ship activation advantage list with heavy hitters. As others have said - maybe try playing some different opponents or even try Vassal/Tabletop Sim.

Bottom line - if you are not having fun with the game maybe take a break for a few weeks/months I did and just recently got back in to it with the new Wave and am really enjoying the game again.

Yes there may be some problems with the game - but its not like X-wing is perfect either. - I have played X-wing since Launch and played and placed well in the UK Nationals before, which I have also attended for Armada. No matter how things are balanced in every game there will always be one "Meta" or "Easier" to play list than others - I've not seen this much with Armada except for Gencon special back in Wave 1.

As someone who knows and regularly plays Ben, this whole thing is super funny to read, because it's an obvious case of sour grapes with extra salt.

Ben is a good player who you guys know on here. I'd be frustrated too if I weren't very good and had to play Ben all the time.

Wait so a list built to take advantage of your list's specific weaknesses means Armada is Rock paper scissors? Dude I have played against and beaten lists specifically built to beat mine but I have still won. I have played list built to beat the list I was up against some and still lost. The list bulding is important but no lists is an auto win against another.

I run to the problem in xwing all the time but Armada it is way to much of an issue. Having the wrong build should be a pain but not 9 in 10 chance of a blow out.

Yeah man, but like, back that claim up. Give an example. Use those persuasive essay skills. When somebody makes an argument about something and tells you what will happen in "9 in 10" occasions, but doesn't get into any specifics, it's reasonable to dismiss that argument entirely.

I will absolutely challenge your claims here. Tell me what fleet lists you think are "wrong builds" against each other, and I'll tell you how skill will matter more than fleet composition. I mean, you could probably make an unwinnable fleet list if you deliberately set out to do it (all unarmed GR-75s or something), but skill--and deployment is a skill--is the real winner.

Pardon me for getting pointed about it, but I kinda think you can't get more specific because this is a vague feeling and because this supposed trend really wouldn't play out as any kind of systemic pattern if we ventured beyond your anecdotal experience hanging out with X-Wing players at the local game store. I really don't think you have played Armada enough to understand.

Wow we almost went an entire week without another flame war troll thread that complains about how Armada is a bad game.

Maybe you are the reason people don't want to play. Always talking about how Armada is dead and totally unbalanced. How ironic it would be if you killed your community with your own negativity.

There are plenty of topics on how you can be a better player. Or post your own topic asking how you can do something better. But every topic you post is about something negative or something you don't like about the game.

Can we all stop feeding the troll?

Besides, if it makes the OP feel better, Ben gets killed by Darth Vader in Episode IV. You've already had your revenge (of the Sith). Let it go. Your hate and anger are destroying you (and your grammar).

I think Armada is quite cost-prohibitive compared to X-Wing. Especially when the scene is smaller.

Also the OP seems to have a problem with non-iconic ships taking part. When was the last time you saw X-Wings vs TIE fighters in X-Wing? (T-65s and non FO)

I love how responding to the troll just gets the troll to respond "well if you're so smart, how come you're responding to a dumb troll?"

I love how responding to the troll just gets the troll to respond "well if you're so smart, how come you're responding to a dumb troll?"

The joke is on you: I never claimed to be smart.

Can you send me all your stuff BladeWing? I'll take care of them and lead your ships and squads to victory.

As someone who knows and regularly plays Ben, this whole thing is super funny to read, because it's an obvious case of sour grapes with extra salt.

Ben is a good player who you guys know on here. I'd be frustrated too if I weren't very good and had to play Ben all the time.